Talk:SVNS

Nice Touch
Like the new edits to my edits yesterday (Jones.liam (talk) 10:03, 31 May 2010 (UTC))

re: undo message
I said:

(Undid revision 394212836 by 86.172.0.74 (talk) - reverting vandalism - this IP has several more that need to be reverted)

but it turns out all had been caught already but this one and one other, so I went ahead and reverted the other. So never mind. ;)

Arabian Gulf Flag
Arabian Gulf don't play under the article's flag, use a White Flag with a Black Horse :) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 186.62.147.90 (talk) 16:04, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.irb.com/irbsevens/archive/tcode=1090/season=2002/overview.html

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External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 one external links on World Rugby Sevens Series. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090612055717/http://www.irb.com/irbsevens/news/newsid=2026934.html#usa+rugby+receives+major+sevens+boost to http://www.irb.com/irbsevens/news/newsid=2026934.html#usa+rugby+receives+major+sevens+boost
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20111011152812/http://irbsevens.com/destination/edition=9/news/newsid=2048923.html to http://www.irbsevens.com/destination/edition=9/news/newsid=2048923.html#teams+announced+gold+coast+kick

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Removal of excess statistics
Hi, I have removed the Team Records by Round data from this article, as well as its equivalent from the Women's Sevens Series page. Please add comments below on these points to support or oppose removal of this material – Pinging the last five named contibutors. Thank you. -- Ham105 (talk) 05:00, 8 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia is not a database. Readability of articles is impaired when there are excess lists of statistics – WP:NOTSTATSBOOK. This artice is about the annual series, it's not a list of fine-level team records requiring weekly or monthly updates. At best, statistics of this kind should be split to a separate list article.
 * Moreover, there is not one explicit source for these team records. Placings are derived from multiple separate tables (20 and counting) and are translated from the points allotted that vary by tournament and year. Half the data does not exist for half the placings, given that third and fourth wasn't decided for many years. The resulting WP:SYNTHESIS is a Wikitable that is difficult to verify and maintain.


 * Hi Ham105, I left a comment about this on your talk page earlier but I'll discuss here too. I'll reply to the subject of both the men's and the women's pages.


 * In a way, I would say that Wikipedia is indeed a database, just not necessarily of 'data', but of information. I really don't think one nicely organised table affects the readability of either article. Yes, the articles are of the annual series, but the table is the culmination of all the series results, exactly as is the series results tables and as is all of the player records. Both of these articles already require weekly or monthly updates; for the player records, so it makes no difference whatsoever.
 * Yes, there is one source for all of this data. It's all embedded within the World Rugby 7's Standings page (https://www.world.rugby/sevens-series/standings/mens). All Seasons of tournament results are viewable for both Men's and Women's series through the dropdown menu on the left side, and switching between the Men's and Women's series is as simple as clicking the other heading. It's all there in one place. As to your claim that "half the data does not exist for half the placings", that is not true. As I explained, all of the tournament results are easily accessible through the link I'd added at the bottom of the table. It's not true that 3rd & 4th wasn't decided for many years in the Women's tournaments as you specified, however, it is true for the Men's tournament, which is why I'd included those unranked-semifinal-loss placings in a separate column on the right side of the table. We don't need to update that anymore, as 3rd & 4th are now awarded for both M & W tournaments, but it can be verified through the link I'd supplied (at the same time, neither of the other 2 tables have source links. How can they be verified if there's no linked source?). Maintenance of the table is simple from here on out, simply go through the link, which automatically takes you to the most current season, and look at the top 4 placings from the latest tournament. This can easily be done at the same time Player Records are updated on the Wiki page. The section heading is 'Historical results' and that's what these tables are. Looking forward to your reply, I'd like to reinstate these tables soon. -- BDigs153 (talk) 06:26, 8 December 2019 (UTC)


 * Thanks for taking this to the talk page and for inviting me to the discussion. The Rugby World Cup article (a featured article) presents some summary information re team performances, and also links to a more detailed article on national team performances. Perhaps we follow a similar approach here? (which is something that it looks like Ham has already signaled they could live with). CUA 27 (talk) 14:23, 8 December 2019 (UTC)


 * Thanks BDigs153 and CUA 27. The Rugby World Cup featured article approach I think is a good one.
 * 1. The more detailed article I'm looking at is Records and statistics of the Rugby World Cup – an article like this would resolve my concern about readability and excess statistics in the main article. This includes team stats as well as player stats – CUA, your thoughts on the player points/tries/appearances also being included? Annual players awards could perhaps remain in the main article. BDigs, your thoughts?
 * There is also National team appearances in the Rugby World Cup – the pages could probably be merged.
 * 2. I think the verifiabiliy/synthesis question might also be resolved with some further discussion. As a lead-in to that I have amended the 'results by season' table to include separate row-by-row references from the WR 7s standings webpages (as per BDigs post above) which makes the data clearly verifiable. The 'season placings by team' has a note on the source of the tally results being obtained by summing the team placings from 'results by season'. Simple numerical summation is not SYNTH.
 * A table of 'tournament placings by team' is more complicated. It may yet also be made verifiable without WP:SYNTH but I will post more after further comment/feedback about a possible page for World Rugby Sevens Series records and statistics. -- Ham105 (talk) 23:58, 8 December 2019 (UTC)


 * Hi Ham & CUA, appreciate the feedback and ideas for this topic.
 * As you mentioned, the Rugby World Cup page has both tournament results and team records, as does the 7s page right now. In addition to that, the RWC page has a dedicated Records and stats page. The only problem I see with running the 7s page this way is that the Results by season is growing at 4x the rate of the RWC equivalent. It's already too long, really.
 * The best option, in my opinion, is to leave season placings by team on the main page (as it's a good summary of all the teams performances and won't grow longer) and write up a summary of the table as per: Performance of nations. Then migrate all the other stats, records, results, etc, to a new Stats and Records 7's page which both, has less clutter on the main 7's page and brings all of the stats, etc together in one place. This is essentially what you both recommended above and in Hams 1 and 1a. If we all agree with this, I'm all good with it. -- BDigs153 (talk) 03:38, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

Good, productive discussion. I’ll offer my reactions: CUA 27 (talk) 02:24, 10 December 2019 (UTC)
 * 1) It looks like we all agree on the main principles here — i.e., the main article stays a mix of prose with some tables, and we create a new article focused on World Rugby Sevens Series statistics. The trickier question may be which tables stay in the main article, and which get moved over to the more stats focused article.
 * 2) Team results: I think the Seasons placings by team section should stay; it provides a nice summary of team performance without too much detail. I agree the Results by Season table is already long-ish and is growing quickly, and could be broken off into a separate WS statistics article.
 * 3) Player stats: I rather like the top ten tables for tries, points, and appearances. It’s a nice snapshot of the great ones who have played the sport over the past 20 years. And the tables aren’t going to get any longer than they already are. But the Player Awards by Season table is long-ish and growing quickly, and could be broken off into a separate WS statistics article.


 * My thoughts on that:
 * Agreed
 * Agreed
 * Maybe we could have a written summary of the top player from each Player Record table/stat, and move the full tables to the stats pages? Either way, I'd quite like to see every stat, record, and table on the stats page, even if there's already a duplicate on the main 7's article.

-- BDigs153 (talk) BDigs153 (talk) 02:49, 10 December 2019 (UTC)


 * You may not find this particularly persuasive, but take a look at the Major League Soccer article (Good article status). It’s another annual sports competition that has been in existence roughly as long as the World Series. You’ll see there that team and player records are summarized in tables in the main article, by the season-by-season type tables have all been moved to separate articles.
 * Turning back to the WS article, if you want to duplicate player stats in a separate article I could live with that, but repeating myself here (sorry) I think the player top ten tables provide significant value to the reader. If you think five player tables is too many and want to propose something fewer, I’d hear you out, but I’d object to a wholesale removal of all player stats tables. CUA 27 (talk) 03:15, 10 December 2019 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion: You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 16:38, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
 * HSBC World Rugby Sevens Series logo.png