Talk:SV Dynamo

Titles
!!!!!The section honours is incomplete!!!!!--Kay Körner 20.12.1983 13:39, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

!!!!The national titles are all complete now!!!!--Kay Körner 20.12.1983 09:29, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Citations warning
This article contains citations to the German version of Wikipedia, which is an unacceptable practice according to Citing sources. Note that the cited German Wikipedia articles are themselves not referenced. I recommend finding external references to support the material in this article. Dr. Submillimeter 14:53, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Where stand this in the Citing sources(link)? I don't believe that anyone else edits this article in a positive point. In the next time, this red article-links will be disappear. Naturally it would disappear this citation-source. Usally it would to be pointless work. --Lucken 15:51, 3 May 2007 (UTC) I must to improve my english and have to do another work like you, Dr. Astro. --Lucken 15:59, 3 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Just for information, Citing sources countains a line that says, "Note: other Wikipedia articles cannot be used as sources." Presumably, that includes Wikipedia in other languages.  Dr. Submillimeter 19:55, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

de:Wikipedia:Quellenangaben: Nach dem Wikipedia-Prinzip erstellte und veröffentlichte Texte – egal aus welchem lokalen Namensraum oder externen Schwesterprojekt sie stammen – fallen naturgemäß nicht unter den hier verwendeten Quellenbegriff. Die gemeinfreien Werke, die Wikisource anbietet, können aber als ergänzender Weblink zu einem Quellwerk angegeben werden. Auch auf Wikibooks finden sich Originalwerke. Übersetzungen aus anderen Sprachversionen und andere Artikel der Wikipedia sind nur dann tauglich, wenn deren Quellenangaben ausgearbeitet sind. Wiggy! 23:58, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

English translation from Google. (aeropagitica) 22:31, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Lucken inappropriately removed Template:Citecheck. The warning template should only be removed when the references to Wikipedia are replaced with references to external sources. Dr. Submillimeter 22:09, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

I would also like to add that a number of the citations seem to be to the same article (which is fine), so the ref tags should be combined for clarity. Most of this could be cleaned up by someone who understands German and follows the web citation template. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 15:59, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

"User:Polarys" has deleted over 120 Pictures of SV Dynamo at the Commons-Site of Wikipedia. Without the compliance with a period of 7 days.--Kay Körner 18:18, 14 May 2007 (UTC) On Wiki Quote, I wrote quotations in correct English, over the Sports Association Dynamo. Also there again everything is to be deleted, since those is not desired there. It was written properly everything!! Undemocratically thereby the following administrators were involved: User: Cbrown1023; User: Aphaia and User: UDScott.

Contest speedy deletion
Will try to make it less pov to address that issue - some of this may be due to translation errors - surely "Europe's greatest sports centre" should be "Europe's biggest....". The Communist party quote can be given some introductory context. The club had a political purpose but that doesnt make the article pov per se.

Dynamo were the most successful multi-sports club in Europe and certainly deserve an article. This article is not perfect but if we delete it and start afresh we will only end up putting the same information back in.

There seems to be a specific fight going on about the images which someone better acquainted with the rules needs to sort out (see above). Jameswilson 23:06, 28 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Right, I have edited the article to my satisfaction (!). Ii have tried to put the Dynamo story in a wider context. The long speech still needs a proper retranslation. I have left the images up for the moment till somebody decides whether to delete them all, keep them or whatever. Jameswilson 23:42, 28 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Sorry, but despite your edits it still remains a page full of POV nonsense. The changes so far are trivial. Wiggy! 02:25, 29 June 2007 (UTC)


 * What it is you object to specifically? Is it the speech? The club was highly successful in sporting terms. To state that is not POV in itself. The club was a political tool. I think I have made that sufficiently clear with my edits.

Many sports clubs/events around the world have been used by authoritarian governments for their own purposes. If you want to show the "dark side", fine, but please add details on that rather than trying to delete the article. We cant rewrite history and ignore their sporting achievements just because we happen to object to fascism (Real Madrid did win 5 European Cups with Franco's support, the German team at the Berlin Olympics did win a lot of medals, etc) or communism (as in this case). It may be lamentable but it happened.Jameswilson 00:47, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism and Discriminating for blocked User:Kay KÖrner because of editing succesfull German Sport Club Dynamo -article
following things was deleted:
 * Photos by User:Quaddel

Volleyball: by User:Quaddel and wiggy! polarys.
 * Volleyball ladies: 1962, 1963, 1964, 1965, 1966, 1968, 1969, 1972, 1973, 1974, 1975, 1978, 1979, 1985, 1986, 1986, 1987, 1988, 1989, 1990
 * Volleyball gentlemen: 1961, 1978, 1979, 1980, 1990

and the logo from the site http://picasaweb.google.com/marilynmonroe223378/SportvereinigungDynamo02

without any reasons!!!--141.30.241.25 16:17, 26 July 2007 (UTC) This is an sports history site and not an ideal manipulating site!!! Phantasy names are sock dolls!! Like the ideals : User:Wiggy!, User:Quaddel, User:Polarys. These here are actually only statistics you liars!
 * Enough. To begin with this isn't the place to duplicate an existing article. And each of the half-dozen or so editors named by you on this page have responded to various inappropriate editing practises or uncivil actions by you and your sockpuppets. You brought this on yourself. Think that through. Conduct yourself in a civil manner, respect the rules of the site, and stick to writing balanced and informative articles and you won't draw negative attention to yourself. This is not a Dynamo/East Germany tribute site. Wiggy! 22:11, 26 July 2007 (UTC)


 * If you bothered to look you would see that I already added the volleyball stuff to the article. The material at the other wikisites is being challenged as spam/inappropriate at those sites by other editors with the Commons material having already been previously deleted under some other title. The rest is spamlinks. Insulting other editors is uncalled for. More of the same conduct that got you banned in the first place. Give it a rest. Wiggy! 01:19, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism of cheap agent User:Wiggy!
He deleted the complete Externa links! He deleted the photos (photos are not spams!) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.201.55.6 (talk) 20:38, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Dynamo in Wikipedia
The model Wikipedia was based on was very effective in getting it established. However, this model is not effective in maintaining it. When admins elect each other and form cliques, when admins can violate Wikipedia policy with impunity, and when editors are met with the possibility of article vandalism on a regular basis, the opportunity exists for Wikipedia to gradually decline. I think that is occuring. Anyone who is ambitious enough to use it as the basis for an encyclopedia that has stricter edit protections and more specialized and restricted powers of administrators will have a sustainable online encyclopedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.95.142.179 (talk) 17:10, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

I think it's true!--194.95.143.150 21:14, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

had edited the complete article alone with User:Mattbr and User:Jameswilson. took over appr. 95%

"User: Wiggy!" vandalised this article in many times an was never been blocked.--194.95.143.150 20:25, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sportvereinigung_Dynamo&action=history

Wikipedia- Top Link Dynamo
Oh, it's cool man! http://cwf-co.s3.amazonaws.com/htm/Volkspolizei.htm —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.95.142.179 (talk) 18:47, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Ethnic and political discriminating in Wikipedia
User:Wiggy! may vandalise this article on every time, without blocking throught admin. He vandalised the Kay Körner-Picture.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Sportvereinigung_%28SV%29_Dynamo&diff=prev&oldid=170154229 He vandalised the also the audio data He (Wiggy!) vandalised the wikilinks to commons, wikibooks and wikisources. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sportvereinigung_Dynamo&diff=prev&oldid=146870006


 * User:Wiggy! vandalised the map discussion

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Sportvereinigung_%28SV%29_Dynamo&diff=cur&oldid=171700821
 * And again: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Sportvereinigung_%28SV%29_Dynamo&diff=next&oldid=174366448

Vandalism by "revolving bugbear"
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Sportvereinigung_%28SV%29_Dynamo&diff=next&oldid=177209695
 * And again:

SVDVP
This her is the right logo, then the Spiegel/Mirror of the police in all German times wasn't in gold, if was been silver. Please accept this fact. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.201.55.6 (talk) 19:27, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm a German and you may believe that. MY family was been involved in this club and at at the crminal police.....

?????? I will that putting in at the "other versions" by wiggy! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.30.241.23 (talk) 16:53, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Sports Unification German People's Police.jpg
Image:Sports Unification German People's Police.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 17:39, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Other user vandalsising this page
Jeodesic has moved Hartmut Briesenick out from the succesfull athletes, with the describtion: It's the correct name! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.30.241.23 (talk) 17:43, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

UserWiggy! does dicriminating all with Dynamo over times uand was never been blocked. THe SV Dynamo is a communist sports club and noting else. He means that the SV Dynamo isn't a communist club and this is false.


 * Help-me tag moved to user talk. -- omtay 38  19:09, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Vandalising by User:Cro0016
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sportvereinigung_%28SV%29_Dynamo&diff=195767604&oldid=195767338 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.95.142.179 (talk) 09:53, 4 March 2008 (UTC) And again the bronze medals: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sportvereinigung_%28SV%29_Dynamo&diff=prev&oldid=195784893 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.95.142.179 (talk) 12:26, 4 March 2008 (UTC)


 * OK, I offer my apologies here. I did not realise that more than the 215 Olympic medals was being reverted. So, I apologise for this. However, a citaion will be required to back up the 215 medals claim Steve Crossin (talk) 12:30, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Dear Steve Crossin, you are Cro0016?? The source of this lies by the articles of the athletes (linked here) and the athletes articles don't belong to this article, than it would blow up this article. Any medals and memberships of the SV Dynamo are proved. Please look at the hall of fame. Dynamo is a defunct sozialistic sports club. The general proof is the Sports Magazine Dynamosport, the SV Dynamo Almanach and many many others. All stands at the magazine Dynamosport. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.95.142.179 (talk) 12:44, 4 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes, I am Cro0016. Steve Crossin is just the name that appears in my signature. Okay, well, the fact should be put in the article with a citation. I believe your statements, however others may challenge it.Steve Crossin (talk) 12:51, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

This article needs a cleanup!
The English in this article is quite terrible in places, it does need a major cleanup, I think. Anybody volunteering?EA210269 (talk) 00:33, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
 * The article is lacking any neutrality by simply glorifying the East German sports system. There is no mentioning of the massive amounts of doping performed in former East Germany (see:Doping (sport)), the fact that Dynamos mother organization, the Stasi was directly involved in political repression and that its leader, Erich Mielke, was a convicted criminal, having murdered to Berlin police officers in 1931. I think, their could be a lot more added to it but the articles style is, in my opinion, offensive to victims of the East German regime and definitely offensive to me, as a German!EA210269 (talk) 01:50, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Vandalism by User:EA210269
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sportvereinigung_%28SV%29_Dynamo&diff=prev&oldid=196188747 http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sportvereinigung_%28SV%29_Dynamo&diff=prev&oldid=196408975

Deutsch: Ich möchte dir idealen Bundesbürger mal sagen, dass alles diese Medaillien erkämpft wurden und bis heute anerkannt sind und bleiben. Da kannst du nicht kommen und sagen das es Verherrlichung sei. Dies ist nur der Fall, wenn nicht solche großen Erfolge erziehlt wurden und hier alles so erzählt würde. Verherrlichung ist was du machst. Du erzählst, dass dieses English falsch hier sei, was eigentlich dazu dient andere zu disrkrminieren, wegen ihrer Herkunft, Art und Weise. Die ganzen Sportler hier sind nicht gedopt und zu behaupten, dass diese dann trotzdem gedopt seien, weil diese ja selber anders aussehen und aus Sachsen oder Berlin sind und nicht in  deiner Ideologie Platz haben. Die Meisterschaften sind auch anerkannt.

Der Artikel ist außerdem selbst in Textabschnitten von Engländern, Canadier und Amerikaner geschrieben. Hier Leute komplett zu verurteilen, weil sie nicht deinem Weltbild entsprechen und hier Tatsachen aufgelistet sind, ist mehr als Diskirminierung. Das ist sehr imperialistisch und diktatorisch. Außerdem kannst du ja selber den Artikel auch bearbeiten. Das machst aber nicht, weil du ja keine Ahnung hast und keine Quellen.

Achso, vergiss nicht dein Germanisches Bärenfell umzuhängen!

English: I'd like to say you perfect "Bundesbürger" that all these Medals were won, and are recognized today. Because you can not come and say it was glorification. This is only the case if not such great successes won were here and everything is telling. Glorification is what you are doing here!. You are telling that this English is wrong here what serves to discriminate others, because of its origin, nature and manner. All the athletes here are not doped and to say that they will still be doped because they look so different and came from Saxony and Berlin, and finding not place of your ideology. The championships are also recognized.

The texts are even been written from the British, Canadians and Americans. This is a work of a community from Dynamo for humans and with humans, against imperial agents rigging/ string-pulling because of political and social milieus.

Don't forgot to wear your Germanic bearskin!

Removal and replacement of POV tag by anonymus user
Due to the fact that the POV tag I placed on the article yesterday was removed by an anonymus user only a few hours later, without a proper discussen through any third party and with only a rant full of insults and accusations as an answer, I was forced to take the following steps:


 * Point A:I replaced the POV tag on the article since I still dispute its neutrality
 * Point B:I informed the WikiProject Neutrality of the matter in the hope of obtaining a neutral opinion.
 * Point C:I informed the User:Quadell at User talk:Quadell and User:Revolving Bugbear at User talk:Revolving Bugbear of my suspission, that the anonymus id 194.95.142.179 may be another sockpuppet of the blocked user/Fox53, since they were the administrators who blocked him in the past. (See also:Category:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of Fox53)

Apart from this I be very happy to discuss my opinion about this article here with anyone who has got an open mind and tolerates other peoples opinons. EA210269 (talk) 06:30, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I have created a section in the article titled "Controversies surrounding the Sport Club Dynamo" to hopefully create a more balance view of the article. I've researched a lot of sources, the amount of information regarding DDR-doping is overwhelming! Only used the most reliable sources, like BBC, The Guardian, etc.EA210269 (talk) 03:46, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Vandalism by User:DeadEyeArrow
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sportvereinigung_%28SV%29_Dynamo&diff=prev&oldid=197293302 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.95.142.179 (talk) 08:46, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Vandalism by User:EA210269
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sportvereinigung_%28SV%29_Dynamo&diff=prev&oldid=197575659 Th SC Dynamo Berlin is not the SV Dynamo, but it's a stub. The Erich Mielke history is linked here and thus about him is known of this Erich Mielke-article. The SV Dynamo article is over 40 kb. The article sice of Wikipedia may only at the best 30 until 40 kb in large. I repeating myself: The SC Dynamo Berlin is a stub and you must it put in to this article and not here and copying the Erich Mielke article at here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.201.55.6 (talk) 10:35, 11 March 2008 (UTC) Deutsch: Die Größe der Wikiepdia-Artikel darf 40 kb nicht überschreiten. Das, was du hier über Erich Mielke schreibst ist beim Erich Mielke Artikel schon bekannt. Dann das mit dem Doping, wo du es wieder nicht geschafft hattest zu beweisen, dass alle Dynamosportler in der Ruhmeshalle gedopt seien. Ich kann nichts dafür, dass die angeblich Kinder bem SC Dynamo Berlin gedopt hätten. Dann schreibe deine Vermutungen doch bei dem Artikel SC Dynamo Berlin 'rein. Der muss sowieso erweitert werden, weil der sonst gelöscht würde. Das vom Erich Mielke ist aus dem Artikel abkopiert und hierein gesetzt worden, was völlig sinnlos ist, denn kann man selber ja den Erich Mielke-Artikel ahier anklicken, da ich den hier verlinkt hatte. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.201.55.6 (talk) 10:44, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Niemand sagt, das jeder oder viele Dynamo Sportler gedopt waren, aber zu sagen, das keine waren ist falsch und kann auch so bewiesen werden, Kay! Schau doch selber die Quellen an fals du lust hast. Andrea Pollack und Daniela Hunger, die du in deiner "Hall of fame" auflistest haben es ja selber zugegeben! Was Ilona Slupianek angeht, ebenfalls von dir gelisted, sie wurde 1977 ganz offiziel des Dopings ueberfuehrt! Du kannst gern die Augen zu machen und denken, das es nicht existiert aber deswegen verschwinded die Wahrheit nicht, glaub mir. Ein paar schwarze Schafe gibt es ueberall, ob in der alten DDR oder in der US (Marion Jones). Und was deine Aussage anfgeht, das die Erfolge bewiesen sind, wer zweifelt daran? Lies den letzten Abschnitt von The case of doping, er bestaetigt genau das! Was Erich Mielke angeht, der ist wo er hingehoert! Und kopiert habe ich nichts, das sind alles neue Quellen, du kannst das gern mit dem Mielke artikel vergleichen. Du kannst es gern auch alles wieder loeschen aber ich fuege es doch nur wieder ein, Kay, und jedes mal wenn du das tust suche ich nach noch mer Quellen. Das liegt also ganz bei dir. Ich habe keinen Haß auf dich oder Dynamo und solange du statt voller Haß vernuenftig schreibst antworte ich dir gern. Gruß aus Wiluna,EA210269 (talk) 22:13, 11 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Der Artikel ist zu groß mit dem Mist. Dann hast du das bei DDR oder einem anderen Artikel einzufügen. Oder eigentlich bei der Sportlerin und nicht hierein. Ich werde doch ninht anderes hier löschen, damit hier Platz für den Mist ist.

Es gibt für den jeweiligen Sachverhalt hier mehrere Artikel, wo das herein gehört. Das mit Erich Mielke ist doch schon bekannt und mit der Mauer auch. Das gehört dort hin, aber nicht hier rein. Wenn, könntest du das in den SC Dynamo Berlin-Artikel einfügen. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.95.142.179 (talk) 08:24, 12 March 2008 (UTC) Lies doch mal, was hier steht! Du sollst das in den Artikel über die Personen 'reinschreiben! Dort gehört das hin! Du kannst doch nicht über andere Dynamo-Vereine oder Personen hier einfach das hiereinstellen! Der Artikel ist zu groß!

It exists an article about Dynamo-Athletes and other Dynamo-Clubs and therefore insert these in this articles and not in this to large article, please!


 * English:: I have done as you asked and added parts about doping to the Dynamo Berlin and the athlets articles. However, the whole thing is not limited to one club or one person, it involves the Dynamo organisation at large. Thats why I think it belongs here. However, if you do think it is to large, can't you have Captain Future generate a new article called: Controversies surrounding the Sport Club Dynamo. This would certainly solve the length problem and I would be happy with this compromisse and not bother you anymore. I wish to write about other stuff and don't really want to spare the time! The Dynamo article is not your private possesion, kay and anybody with reliable sources is able and allowed to contribute. Give it a minute of thought that I havn't deleted a word you wrote in this article even so I don't believe everything is the way you say. it's about tolarance, you know, respecting other peoples opinion, even when we don't share them. have fun editing and i'm sure I hear from you soon, ME
 * Deutsch: Ich habe dem Dynamo Berlin Artikle und denen ueber die Athleten schon vorher Paragraphen ueber die doping Verstrickungen zugefuegt. Das ganze beschraenkt sich aber nicht auf einen Klub sondern auf die Organisation, deshalb gehoert es hierher. Fals du wirklich der meinung bist, der Artikel sei zu lang, las Captain Future einfach einen neuen Artikel generieren mit dem Titel: Controversies surrounding the Sport Club Dynamo. Das waere doch eine Moeglichkeit oder? Damit waere ich gern zu frieden und belaestige dich auch gar nicht mehr laenger da ich ganz gern ueber andere Sachen schreiben wurde! Dann waere dein Artikel nicht mehr zu lang. Ansonsten ist Dynamo oder der Artikel aber nicht dein Privatbesitz und jeder der glaubhafte Quellen anbringt kann an ihm arbeiten. Vielleicht solltest du dir auch mal darueber gedanken machen, Kay warum du staendig meine Sachen rausloescht waerend ich keinen einzigen Buchstaben von dir geloescht habe obwohl ich in vielem nicht deiner Meinung bin. Toleranz und so, du weisst ja. Machs gut, viel Spass,EA210269 (talk) 10:39, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

And again: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sportvereinigung_%28SV%29_Dynamo&diff=next&oldid=197716585 Deine Phrasen stören mich. Die Grenztruppen der DDR sind nicht die Dynamo-Sportler! Den Rest mit Erich Mielke kannst du bei Erich Mielke übertragen, aber nicht hierein, da es hier um Sport geht. Deine Dopingaussagen von Fanseiten, kannst du in die Artikel von den SportlerInnen tun und nicht hierein. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.95.142.179 (talk) 14:55, 12 March 2008 (UTC) And again: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sportvereinigung_%28SV%29_Dynamo&diff=next&oldid=197716585 Deine Phrasen stören mich. Die Grenztruppen der DDR sind nicht die Dynamo-Sportler! Den Rest mit Erich Mielke kannst du bei Erich Mielke übertragen, aber nicht hierein, da es hier um Sport geht. Deine Dopingaussagen von Fanseiten, kannst du in die Artikel von den SportlerInnen tun und nicht hierein. Was willst du mit Toleranz? Hast'e das vom Nachrichtendienst-Lehrer?


 * English:

Your phrases disturbing me. The border patrol of East Germany is not Border Troops (Grenztruppen der DDR) of the GDR. And the dynamo-athletes weren't murderers on the Berlin Wall! The rest with Erich Mielke you can insert in Erich Mielke, but not here. Your statements of doping fansites can get involved in the articles of the athletes do not here! The atheltes are here linked. The article is to large otherwise. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.95.142.179 (talk) 15:01, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Dynamo a militant Sports Club who murdered Germans on the wall?
Dynamo is not a military organisaton. Members of the Felix Dzerzhinsky Watch Regiment must wearing the SV Dynamo training suit. They could be members of the SV. Members of the National People's Army were involved at the Armeesportvereinigung Vorwärts (ASV). The Grenztruppen der DDR is a sektion of the National People's Army. On the Medal in the section Institutions you can read the German word "Zoll" (what means in English Border patrol). The one and only paramilitary organisation been the Combat Groups of the Working Class. Only the Grenztruppen der DDR watched and shooted at the wall.
 * It seems, Kay, you don't read your own article very well! Read the second sentence, it says: It was created for members of the country's ministry of interior which included the Volkspolizei with the Border patrol of the GDR. Well, I personally thought, like you said above,  Border Patrol was part of the NVA and therefore should come under ASK Vorwärts, but this article states its part of Dynamo. Whats the truth now? Let me know and if the second is right, remove the part above border patrol from the article and I will delete the reference to the kills on the wall.EA210269 (talk) 21:18, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I removed the bit about the border guards, I think you are right about that bit. I do recommend however, you change the second sentence. I leave it up to you, Kay.EA210269 (talk) 08:58, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Do it in these others! Wikipedia is only one page! It exits so many highlights about this theme. Please looking after the Frensh soccer team, Real Madrid, Team Telekom, Bayer Leverkusen and many more unstarted article about none doping Dynamo-athletes of other continents. There you can do your hobby edits. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.201.55.6 (talk) 20:10, 13 March 2008 (UTC)


 * English:You still havn't made it clear what the connection between Dynamo and the Border patrol of the GDR is, mentioned in the second sentence of the article. Are they associated with Dynamo or not now, there is a bit of a contrdiction. If there is, which I'm doubtful of now, then the killings at the Mauer have to be mentioned here too.
 * Deutsch:Du hast noch nicht klar gestellt, was die Verbindung zwischen Dynamo un den Grenztruppen ist, Kay, die du im zweiten Satz des Artikels erwaehnst. Da ist ein wiederspruch zwischen deinen Aussagen. Fals eine Verbindung besteht, was ich nun bezweifele, dann muss ich die Mauerschuesse auf jeden fall auch hier erwaehnen. Viel Spass,EA210269 (talk) 00:35, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
 * PS: Whats a Bundi, Kay? Hier in Australia its this! They tatse nice!EA210269 (talk) 00:37, 14 March 2008 (UTC)


 * English:To finish off this discussion, I have changed border patrol (German:Grenzschutz) to customs (German:Zoll). I think, its a more suitable translation.
 * Deutsch:Um diese Diskusion zu beenden habe ich border patrol mit customs ersetzt. Die deutsche Uebersetzung von border patrol waere Grenz Schutz (Z.B.: Bundesgrenzschutz im Westen), waerend customs in deutsch Zoll bedeuted. Diese Uebersetzung ist, glaub ich, besser.EA210269 (talk) 21:41, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

The 10 evidences against prejudice about the Dynamo

 * 1st Wikipedia is one (biggest) homepage with links to articles.


 * 2nd You can't edite here the same content from the articles: State Security, National Police of the GDR, Fire Brigade of the GDR with fitted, althought they are linked here exists as well as autonom article, which are stubs.


 * 3rd The SC Dynamo Berlin is not the Sports Club Dynamo, but only divided and: therefore, this should be only used in the article and may be linked.


 * 4th Others, from about 190 Dynamo clubs are also linked been in here. They can not be here building contents to be introduced here and therefore can be linked, in this article alone.


 * 5th That would go beyond the scope if links would be saved.


 * 6th Even Dynamo athletes can not take more than the basic structure of SV dynamo himself mentioned here.


 * 7th Dynamo is not the federal sports association of the GDR. If what about the East German sports should be reported, then use the item DTSB.


 * 8th If it is alleged that any athlete Dynamo had killed people, then you have to prove. Otherwise, it belongs in the article in the customs administration of the GDR.

You can write about this, but link to the article. But I have also done so, and if you click it, that will also be displayed in one second.
 * 9th I am not intolerant. I don't like support your work because it's hopeless and desperate it is here that one's image to produce, since the balance between misconduct and successes more on the side of the successes stands than on those of misconduct.


 * 10th The size of the article should of Wikipedia only 30 to 40 kb. With your sections, it is about 50kb!


 * In answer to your ten points:


 * Prejudice would be if I wrote negative things about Dynamo without having any sources or references. I think, I have provided enough references so far (about 20).
 * Dynamo was the central organisation for all Dynamo clubs and all Dynamo athletes. It carries therefore a chief responsibility for the actions taken by the former. Dynamo can't just claim the glory of medals and titles which are, admittandly, plentyful. It also has to take responsible for the other side, the "dark" side so to speak. The same goes for organisations higher up, like the DTSB, of course.
 * I have never alleged, and I don't ever believed, that Dynamo athletes killed any body. The misunderstanding results from the phrase Border Guards of the GDR, which should now be resolved. (See discussion above).
 * As mentioned before, the balance between success and misconduct does stand on the side of success, this can not be debated. So does the article, which is about 95 % about the success and 5 % about misconduct. I think, this is a good ratio. As an example, if we were to write an article about the 1936 Berlin Olympics and we only wrote about the sport and never mentioned Adolf Hitler, the Nazis and their misuse of the event as a propaganda weapon, would that be right? I don't think so!
 * The section "Controversies surrounding the SC Dynamo" does not warrant its own article, I think, its not important enough. It is a footnote along the history of Dynamo, no more, therefore it belongs to Dynamo.EA210269 (talk) 22:14, 14 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I had a quick look, yes, the article is a bit long but still complies, no need to panic.EA210269 (talk) 22:23, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Der Artikel wird doch nicht in alle Ewigkeit so aussehen wie heute. Da kommt noch viel mehr; im Guten, wie im Schlechten, vielleicht wird der auch mal gelöscht, damit muss man auch rechnen.

Die Ärzte des SC dynamo Berlins gehören zum Artikel SC Dynamo Berlin. Der ist hier gelinkt. Dann waren keine Dynamo-Mitglieder an Erschießungen an der Grenze beteiligt, soweit es nicht bewiesen ist, sollte man nicht den Teufel an die Wand malen. Wenn einige Sportlerinnen gedopt gewesen seien, dann tut es mir besonders leid. Dynamo ist aber kein Dopingzentrum gewesen, wo schwache Leute unter Drogen gesetzt wurden. Das ist auch dafür gut geeignet, um zu rechtfertigen, dass die Arbeitskraft der Ostdeutschen DDR-Bürger schlechter sei als im Westen, da die hier halbsoviel bekommen, da Sport ein Zeigen von genetischer Stärke und Disziplin ist und wer das gut kann, der ist die/der beste. Die haben wirklich sehr hart trainiert. Ich würde dir vorschlagen, dass die Dinge bei den Artikeln der Organe des Ministeriums des Innerns der DDR aufgehoben wärest. Dort, bei dem MFS gibt es auch schon einen Teil über Dynamo oder gab es. Aber zumindest beim Artikel Erich Mielke gibt es eine Sparte, wo eigentlich das alles mit ihm und Dynamo hineingehört. Du könntest da ja hier was 'reinschreiben, aber gleich auf die DDR-Grenze anzusprechen, wobei das ein Thema der NVA ist, finde ich schlecht. Genauso die vielen Daten über die Staatssicherheit. UNd ich habe genau gelesen, dass 30kb bis 40 kb hier ideal sind. Wegen den Leuten, die alte PC's haben.

Ich habe nur mal eine halbe Stunde im Internet über Doping der BRD nachgeschaut und ganz viel gefunden, aber da nun was hiereinzuschreiben - dafür habe ich keine Zeit und keine Lust. Da reicht der Satz hier aus.

Wenn ich an meine Sportler-Tätigkeit denke, die in Vereinen nach der Wende stattfand, muss ich gestehen, dass mehrere Leute vor den Wettkämpfen immer 3 Liter Kola getrunken haben. Manche hatten nie irgendwelche Allergien und dann auch gleich Asthmazeug genommen, was auch Doping ist. Dann, wenn ich hier in die Fitnesscompany gehe, dann stehen die dort herum und geben einen Angebote auf, ob man Spritzen will und wie man dann immer trainieren muss usw.. Die stehen in der Umkleidekabine und tun sich nur Tabletten geben. Manche bekamen Brüste und hatten Arme, die stärker sind als die Oberschenkel.

The article will not ever be like today. There is much more, for better, or the worse, perhaps, the times also deleted, thus, it is important to calculate.

The doctors of the SC dynamo Berlin belong to the article SC Dynamo Berlin. The link is here. Then Dynamo were not members of shootings at the border involved to the extent it is not proven, should not the devil on the wall paint. If some athletes were doped, then it does me very sorry. Dynamo is not a doping centre, where poor people under drugs were set. It is also well suited to justify that the labour force of the East German GDR citizens worse than in the west, because the halbsoviel get here, as a sports point of genetic strength and discipline, and who is it good for, that is the the best. They have trained really hard. I would suggest to you that things in the articles of the institutions of the Ministry of Innerns lifted if the GDR. There, the MFS has also been a part of dynamo or were there. But at least at the article Erich Mielke, there is a division, where it all really with him and Dynamo belong. You could because here was' reinschreiben, but equal to the GDR border approach, with a theme of the NVA, I find bad. Likewise, the many data on the state of security. AND I have just read that 30kb to 40 kb here are ideal. Because of the people, the old PC's.

I only have a half hour on the Internet through doping Germany looked very much and found, but there was hiereinzuschreiben now - that I have no time and no desire. Since the rate goes from here.

When I think of my sports activities think that the clubs after the turn took place, I must confess that several people at the competitions are 3 liters of cola drink. Some never had any allergies and asthma also finished speaking, as doping. Then, when I am here in the fitness company go, then there are around and give an offer on whether to syringes will be and how to train it is always so. The stand in the changing room and do only tablets. Some had had arms and breasts, which are stronger than the thigh. J.d ela noy gabs adds 18:07, 15 March 2008 (UTC)


 * English: Nobody doubts that the athletes in the GDR trained hard, I would say, propably harder then they themselves sometimes wanted. And I'm certain that doping existed and still exists in other countrys, including Germany. If you wish to write about this and you have good sources (ARD definatly is a good one), I have no intentions of stopping you. Regarding the killings at the wall, I repeat what I said before, my misunderstanding results from the term "Border Guards of the GDR". My appologies if it offended you but I consider it an honest mistake on my side with no bad intention and I have removed the section already myselve. I however forgot about the Dynamo berlin article. I will consider how to approach the POV problem I see with this article for a few days and let you know what I think is a suitable approach. But don't be to surprised if the "Controvesie" section reappears, I make no comittmend for now.
 * Deutsch: Niemand bezweifelt, das die Athleten in der DDR hard trainierd haben, manchmal haerter als sie es sich wohl selber gewuenscht haetten. Und ich bezweifele auch nicht, das anderswo auch gedopt wurde und noch immer wird, einschliesslich Deutschland. Wenn du darueber einen Artikel oder Paragraph schreiben moechtest so stehe ich dir sicherlich nicht im Wege. Deine Quelle, die ARD, ist sicherlich eine verlaessliche. Die Streitfrage der Mauerschuesse reultiert von einem Missversaendnis meinerseits, auf Grund des Ausdrucks "Border Guards of the GDR". Border Guards sind der Grenzschutz, nicht der Zoll und ich weiss jetzt das du Zoll meinst, aber ich habe Grenzschutz verstanden. Ich entschuldige mich, sollte es dich unangenehm beruehrt haben aber es wahr sicherlich kein absichtlicher fehler. Ich habe diesen Teil auch vorher schon herausgenommen, aber den Dynamo Berlin Artikel dabei vergessen. Ich bin weiterhin der Meinung das der Artikel nicht Neutral ist, habe aber diese tage nicht so viel Zeit, mich mit dem Problem zu beschaffen, ich werde mal schaun wie ich es angreife wenn ich wieder mehr Zeit und Lust habe. Ich las es dir wissen und du wirst ja sehn, fals der Paragraph "Controvesies" wieder da ist. Machs gut, EA210269 (talk) 07:17, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Dynamo-Hall of fame section cleanup
The Sportvereinigung_%28SV%29_Dynamo section should be better organized to become more readable. I suggest to clean up this section by one of the following way: (a) Use bulleted list (*), see Lists; (b) Create a separate category and categorize these people, see Categorization; (c) Create separate article as a list. Visor (talk) 17:34, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

New article:Controversies surrounding the Sport Club Dynamo
I have now created a new article of this name, linked to this article in the hope of this setteling the ongoing dispute. If so, I consider the matter finished on my behalf.EA210269 (talk) 02:58, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
 * The new article was heavily vandalised by the same anonymus user editing this page, not unexpectedly, as it does not fit his ideology. Almost 20 years after the end of the Stasi, its (selve declared) agents obviously still try to silence people and contrary opinions! Excuse my outburst but I think this anonymus editor has been left roaming long enough!EA210269 (talk) 23:09, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
 * For more information on the anonymus editor of this article, see: Administrators' noticeboard/Archive133 under: SV Dynamo and multi-indef-blocked User:Kay Körner,EA210269 (talk) 23:21, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the proposal was move to SV Dynamo. JPG-GR (talk) 04:43, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Sportvereinigung (SV) Dynamo → Sportvereinigung Dynamo — The team name is Sportvereinigung Dynamo. —Visor (talk) 08:28, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Survey

 * Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with  or  , then sign your comment with  . Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.


 * Support: Its an easier name, no need for the (SV) in the title.EA210269 (talk) 08:33, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
 * qualified Support: on the basis of my comment below. Wiggy! (talk) 21:01, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Support, but as per Derek and Wiggy. SV Dynamo is best solution. Tigeron (talk) 22:53, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Discussion

 * Any additional comments:


 * Comment. Is SV Dynamo not the most common name? Callmederek (talk) 18:23, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment: I would also lean towards SV Dynamo as a more accessible form (especially in an English language encyclopedia) with an explanation/expansion of the term SV within the article. I think that's emerged as the general approach for German clubs. What's being used now could only be described as an unusual construction at best. Wiggy! (talk) 21:01, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Unreliable sources template
The main source for this article, the Dynamosport magazin, published by Dynamo about Dynamo, seems a very unreliable source for the article as it is not an independent source. A more neutral source should be found for the article.EA210269 (talk) 06:33, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Radical cleanup
I removed all unsourced statements, the list of athlethes of the SV Dynamo (would be more appropriate to include them via a category), I also removed all the bullshit added by one specific editor who attempts to glorify East Germany and the SV Dynamo. I resisted to remove the ogg-file which was created by an avid fan of the SV Dynamo :D. Although I have undoubtly removed some valuable and factual information, given the mess this article was this seems to be the best way to ensure a reasonable quality of the article. Novidmarana (talk) 03:56, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
 * The size is now about the same as the German wikipedia article. I've so far shrunk away from this step, knowing, who ever takes it is most likely in for a lot of abuse from this specific editor. I don't envy you, Novidmarana! EA210269 (talk) 05:44, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Merge
Neither this article nor Controversies surrounding the Sport Club Dynamo are very long, so it doesn't seem justified to have different articles. Just put all the info from Controversies into this one and redirect it here.--Aervanath lives in the Orphanage 21:09, 13 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Support: When I originally created the Controvesy section, it was part of the article but due to continuesly being deletet by the same, multi-indef blocked user, I had to create a separate article. I'm all for merging the two now as there really is no need for two separate articles. A shortening of the controvesy section is propably also appropriate. EA210269 (talk) 01:44, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Support. Agreed, having a section is probably more appropriate than this practically orphaned article. dorftrottel (talk) 05:31, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Support: per above Novidmarana (talk) 11:19, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

I have carried out the proposed merger and made the Controvesies article a redirect. EA210269 (talk) 06:33, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

External links modified
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External links modified
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Merging badges
Award items and badges of the SV Dynamo doesn't seem independently notable and could be merged to the main SV Dynamo page. Klbrain (talk) 17:38, 8 February 2020 (UTC)
 * ✅ Klbrain (talk) 15:16, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

Eirch Mielke dismissed on 23 November 1989?
The article said: "From the date of its inception until 23 November 1989 the president of the SV Dynamo was Erich Mielke, the Minister of State Security." However, i find no sources that supporters the claim that he was dismissed on 23 November 1989? I only find sources that suggest he was dismissed in December 1989. However, by sources says he retired "involuntarily" (Fechner p. 226) in December 1989 and that he was "exluded" from his work as First chairman in December 1989 (Fechner p. 228). /EriFr (talk) 22:40, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

Category: Sports club?
I'm not sure if I think that the categories "Sports clubs in East Germany", "Sports clubs established in 1953" and "Sports clubs disestablished in 1990" are entirely correct for SV Dynamo. A sports club (SC) in East German sports was a special type of entity. SC Dynamo Berlin and SC Dynamo Klingenthal were sports clubs (as were TSC Berlin, SC DHfK Leipzig, SC Magdeburg, SC Karl-Marx-Stadt, and so on). SV Dynamo was not a sports club. It was a sports association (SV), which is a sort of nationwide umbrella organisation for numerous sports clubs (SC) and sports communities (SG). If I click on the category "Sports clubs in East Germany", I find SV Dynamo sorted with SC Dynamo Berlin, SC DHfK Leipzig, SC Magdeburg and SC Karl-Marx-Stadt. I don't think is correct. (SC Dynamo Berlin was directly subordinate to SV Dynamo.) Kindest regards. /EriFr (talk) 21:15, 22 May 2023 (UTC)