Talk:Saber (Fate/stay night)

Morgan Le Fay
When did Morgan Le Fay/Bedivere bring Arthur to avalon? Infact, how did Morgan get into the picture at all? Ive never heard of her even mentioned in any telling about saber's story before now actually. Can someone with the game confirm that this actually occured? As far as i can tell Arthur dies then is brought by the lady of the lake to Avalon, but this only occurs AFTER she goes back to her own time and chooses not to re-do the selection of the king. The article has it listed that she is already in Avalon before making the pact with the world. -- Question2
 * From what I could see Avalon was not a literal place but a state of mind or ideals that you could connect to, a source of power and determination and protection and stuff. Bedivere moves Arturia to the place she asks him to, which is maybe near the lake? I know Mordred is featured but I don't recall Morgan being referenced. It is possible that this happens in the game as I've only seen the anime. Also it is 'Fey' I think, reference to fairies. She's probably a Caster class. Tyciol (talk) 14:42, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Midget
154 cm is not tall at all. But she looks more tall, may be the dress. ;-) --Magallanes 17:52, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
 * She is hardly a midget given her 'era'. 5'1 is a fairly average height for men and women that lived over five hundred years ago. The human race has grown very quickly, so by today's standards she may seem small, but by her originating year's standards she was average. -Drium
 * You have to keep in mind, Saber has great posture so she stands tall, so even if she's shorter she might seem taller than someone who slouches. The metal heels in her boots also probably add an inch, and her hair is a bit poofy making her seem a bit taller also. Keep in mind she is also standing next to Shirou a lot who is Japanese and thus not incredibly tall himself. Plus everyone looks short next to Berserker. Tyciol (talk) 14:49, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Invisible Air
Came across a fansite that states that Sabre's sword IA is actually Clarent (aka The Sword in the Stone, for those of you not familiar with the name). Is anyone familiar with the game aware of this, or is it fancruft?--み使い Mitsukai 00:23, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
 * In Fate, Excalibur was the sword pulled from the stone, not Clarent. They combine the two. So Invisible Air is hiding Excalibur, not Clarent. Kinda makes sense too since nobody is going to know Saber is Arturia from seeing Clarent, yet Excalibur would be a dead giveaway. Nezu 00:40, 15 March 2006 (UTC)


 * That is almost correct. Clarent, or the Caliburn, is still the sword that was pulled from the stone.  However, Excalibur is completely different sword and it is the sword that Saber uses.  I do not know if Saber's sword in the stone is called Clarent or Caliburn.  However, the most common name for Fate's sword in the stone according to fans is the Caliburn, so I will use that instead.  Caliburn is the sword that determined Saber to be King.  Excalibur is the sword that, I believe, was given to her by the Lady of the Lake, or someone else.  This part is not told by the story. Mirioki 11:32, 1 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Yes. The sword that saber pulled from the stone is Caliburn, not Excalibur. Shiro once sees her wielding this sword in a dream, and later traces it to kill Berserker in Fate scenario. Excalibur is the sword given to her by Lady of Lake after she lost Caliburn. Some legend says that Arthur lost this sword because he fought a war that is against to chivarly, but I'm not sure whether the game used the same reason.
 * A quick look through Excalibur shows that there are several versions of the story, shifting the name Excalibur between the two swords over and over. Also, the names Caliburn and Excalibur are in fact deformations of the same term. Possibly for clarity’s sake, Fate uses the name Caliburn for the original Sword from the Stone, while Excalibur is the replacement given by the Lady of the Lake. I’m not entirely sure which of the two the Avalon belongs with, but I’m guessing it is Caliburn as it’s the lost one.Ephyon 01:43, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Actually I would guess it be Excalibur, seeing as Caliburn is the "Sword in the Stone", logical reasoning indicates that it was sheathless if it was indeed stuck to a stone. Mirioki 01:54, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree with you... and we know that Avalon the sheath is not always a physical entity. It can dematerialize and phase into people as happened with Shirou. When Shirou's adopted father had Avalon it doesn't say if he had it merged within him also, or if he was carrying it around. My guess is the former, because he was using his possession of the sheath to summon, control, and manipulate Saber, so if he had it strapped to his back all the time she could just take it, and so could Gilgamesh or his master during the final battle. What I think is, since Avalon is incorporeal and representative energy, that Excalibur is like this as well. It is an energy that Saber calls upon to amplify Caliburn/Clarent. It adds the 'EXtra' oomph, basically. I think what happens, is the original Clarent was destroyed, so Saber traces/creates it out of thin air much like she does when she calls upon her armour. Then, she goes further when creating Excalibur which also has to be incorporeal. Even though Excalibur was never destroyed, she can only call upon a facsimile of it since she doesn't have it on her at all times when she transforms into human form. It's different from Avalon, which actually physically exists and isn't travelling through time at all. Shirou's father probably found it in an archaeological dig or something. Tyciol (talk) 15:01, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
 * So in that case, she lost the Caliburn and later lost the Avalon as well? If that’s correct, Merlin must have given her the verbal bitchslap of the century. Ephyon 01:21, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Either that or Merlin was already dead by then... who knows. I remember vaguely in Arthurian myth that in some versions, Merlin died or went missing, and everything went downhill from there. If Merlin is there, then, yes, I would imagine Arturia would have revieved the verbal bitchslap. I bet she really regretted losing Avalon as she was dying too. I'd be really disappointed if I lost a really important sword that represented my kingship and then lost the one thing that was supposed to make me invincible... in this case, it seems that's what Arturia did. Mirioki 06:43, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Avalon (according to the anime and the Fate scenario) was stolen (and not lost) prior to Saber's battle with her son/daughter Mordred, though it doesn't say by who. It has been lost since then, however. -Drium
 * Maybe that's where Morgan can come into things, as the thief? In legends I don't think she stole it directly but she had her husband/lover steal either the sword or the sheath. Tyciol (talk) 15:01, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Avalon
I added in information about Excalibur's sheath. If you think this shouldn't belong here as it is a very big spoiler, please edit to your discretion. Mirioki 15:33, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Hair Colour
King Arthur had ginger hair, why doesn't Saber? Worth a mention? Bowen 20:37, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
 * While English legend does believe he had long red hair, Arthur is most likely an amalgam of several different people in history(if he even existed, of course). Plus he's been portrayed having the entire spectrum of hair colors in various media, and even "historical" tales sometimes have different hair than red. While it's an interesting bit of trivia, I don't think it's really that important in the long run. If a trivia section for Saber gets made, go ahead and include it though. The article is small enough it won't be a problem, and who knows? Someone might like to know that while Saber is blonde, Arthur was rumored to be ginger. I can't imagine Saber with red hair though, personally. Nezu 20:40, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Celas
I deleted the Celas and Guinevere mentions in the article. There is no mention of the Celas surname in Fate (and it is confirmed that Arthuria is the daughter of Uther Pendragon). Also, Arthuria cannot be the base for the legend of Guinevere because she actually exists in that era, going by the mentions of her in hollow ataraxia and the background history of Saber in the Fate status menu. --Abahg32 19:43, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I thought so... Thanks for the confirmation! Mirioki 22:51, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Image
Just a thought but, how about changing Saber’s image to this one? I think it fits a bit more with her usual aura. In reality, I was thinking about this one but the Excalibur/Caliburn/Whichever is showing and I'm not certain if that would be a problem. Ephyon 21:06, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I like the first picture because it parallels the Dark Saber pic very nicely. Mirioki 02:22, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Now that you mention it, it is the same pose. Someone else do the editing though, I'm not sure how to go around with images. Copyright info should be the same since it's from the game CG as well. Done. Ephyon 00:33, 5 May 2006 (UTC)


 * You may think I have a personal grudge against that image or something, but once again, how about replacing the Saber using Excalibur pic to this? I know it’s an extremely technical detail, but the current one is actually Invisible Air’s wind blast being released, Excalibur’s light is always golden. Ephyon 23:48, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, I think it's sorta both Excalibur and Invisible Air at the same time... But you're right, it's not really her using Excalibur, it's more like she's charging up mana for using Excalibur... while Invisible Air goes all windy. Mirioki 00:21, 15 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I was actually going to replace the picture myself, so I guess I have my work cut out for me. Thanks. Terek 07:28, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Alignment
What is with the "alignment" row in the table? Since when does anything aside from D&D have an alignment system like that? Also, we need a lot of citations in here, not just for the alignment weirdness. -Unsigned

Alignment comes straight from the rest of the character stats section (which seems to have been cut from every character description again). It seems pointless to include ranks for attacks when you don't have the stats to baseline them against anymore. Can the anime fans please stop deleting everything just because they haven't played the game? kthx 99.243.161.188 (talk) 12:42, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Stats? Skills?
While some of the servants seem to have skills that are described (for instance, see Rider and her "Riding" skill description), Saber, Gilgamesh and a few other Servants don't appear to have their skills described. In Saber's case, this refers to Instinct, Charisma, Riding, Magic Resistance and Mana Burst. -Drium
 * I can provide the translation by Mirror Moon from the game here (only Instinct and Mana Burst/Mana Energy Release), but it should probably be adapted to Wikipedia and cited properly (TypeMoon, translation by MirrorMoon):


 * Instinct: A The ability to "feel" the best course for oneself during combat. This heightened sixth sense is now close to precognition. It reduces by half any obstacles to vision and hearing.
 * Mana Energy Release: A This transfers magical energy into one's weapon and body, and by releasing the magicacl enegry instantaneously, it increases one's ability. Simply said, it is like magical energy jet propulsion. Saber uses this magical energy for her sword techniques, guarding, and movement.  Because of her great magical energy capacity, she can fight Berseker even though she is a girl of a small size. A normal weapon without strong divine protection will not be able to endure her magical energy-fueled attack and will be destroyed wtih one blow.
 * I haven't played the game long enough to get the rest... yet. jdstroy 06:58, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Whoever deleted the skill and ability descriptions, I put them in there again. The other Servant articles feature descriptions of their abilities, so why shouldn't Saber have them, too? Also, the subtitle of Saber's Avalon Noble Phantasm is NOT The Ever-Distant Utopia. It's "All is a Distant Utopia". It's Engrish, but it's still the proper translation. "All is a Distant Utopia" was also used by Mirror Moon who translated the Fate route of the Visual Novel. I'm well aware that "The Ever-Distant Utopia" sounds better, but it's simply wrong. SaberBTD 12:01, 19 November 2008 (GMT+1)

Fair use rationale for Image:FSN SABER.jpg
Image:FSN SABER.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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Fair use rationale for Image:InvisibleAir.jpg
Image:InvisibleAir.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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Fair use rationale for Image:SaberAvalon.jpg
Image:SaberAvalon.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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Fair use rationale for Image:DarkSaber.JPG
Image:DarkSaber.JPG is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. BetacommandBot (talk) 19:45, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Saber’s Birthdate is July 7?
Is there any material to proof it？ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.62.138.73 (talk) 09:58, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Good question, also I wonder what year this was in, and what year she loses Avalon. For all we know centuries could have passed between these dates. Since she doesn't age, it could explain how she could lose touch with knights and her people and how they could begin to hate or fear her, thinking she's witch or inhuman for never aging or having children (like the Highlander). This kind of disocciation is also present in the Bleach filler arc with the Bount. Tyciol (talk) 15:16, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Gilgamesh and Mordred: Golden enemies
In his transformed state, Gilgamesh is wearing Golden Armour. Similarly in mythology, you have Mordred wearing golden armour. You can see depictions of this in Excalibur and also in Justice League Unlimite when he transforms into an adult. I think this is sort of a reference. Gilgamesh sort of takes on this aspect of Mordred, even though Mordred still exists as a character in Fate. The parables in their relationship do go a bit further, like how Gilgamesh tries to rape Saber, might be compared to how Morgana rapes Arthur in Excalibur or how Uther rapes Igraine. Mordred's heart gets corrupted by Morgana's sorcery, whereas Gilgamesh drinks the ooze to keep himself alive and (might be) corrupted. Tyciol (talk) 15:05, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Game guide?
Yes, I know this is a visual novel, but still doesn't this article sounds kind of like too much of a guide? -- クラ  ウド  ６６８  17:13, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
 * It's not so much a guide as a spoiler, really. Tyciol (talk) 05:35, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Gymnastics? Gambling?
Does anyone have any kind of source for the "talents" portion of the Servant Status section? These seem like weird things for Saber to be talented in, and I've personally never heard of them outside this article. 0seveN (talk) 23:22, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Fate/zero content
This article badly needs to be rewritten from the ground up so that it doesn't sound

1. In-universe 2. Completely forcused on F/sn and ignoring F/z 3. Like a fanboy's musings rather than an informative, neutral article

I have done what I can for now, but it still needs a lot of work.

Overmage (talk) 01:38, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

Capcom Protagonist status
Hey Are You sure Saber and Shirou are Capcom Protagonists? Cause, they we technically created by Type-Moon and only happen to be in games that were co-created by Capcom.175.143.251.55 (talk) 13:30, 1 July 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 175.139.96.254 (talk)

Saber's true name
So it appears we have too many translations of Saber's true name to the point the prose mentions three versions. A name needs to be consistent but if Saber's name is mistranslated in an official English release, then it is also worth mention.Tintor2 (talk) 21:17, 27 December 2018 (UTC)
 * I think you stick with the official name and mention the other translations. However, you should also consider what name sources usually use, per WP:COMMONNAME. Gabriel Yuji (talk) 05:54, 31 December 2018 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 01:52, 9 August 2019 (UTC)
 * FateSN Saber toy.jpg

Gray
Connection to Gray mentioned in The Case Files of Lord El-Melloi II light novel. Will find the page number. Hcobb (talk) 17:56, 2 October 2019 (UTC)


 * You need to act the reference in book format once adding the information per guidelines.Tintor2 (talk) 17:58, 2 October 2019 (UTC)

Reception problem
"Some critics, however, have expressed their dislike of Saber's lack of character development and relevance in other routes adapted by anime series. Her characterization in Zero, and her lack of screen-time in other anime adaptations was also met with negative response. Nevertheless, Saber has been popular within the Fate series and anime in general."

This doesn't feel right. I only see two criticisms for her role in Zero (Source no. 89 and 95). Other reviewers have praised her relationship with the characters and her fight scenes. Shouldn't this be mentioned in the lead?

Also, source no. 95:

"Fandom Post also said Saber is one of the weakest characters from this story due to her lack of skills and motivations, which the other characters mock to the surprise of former viewers of the Fate franchise."

This is...inaccurate? This is what they said:

"With Gilgamesh as a king, we even get a great episode where it’s essentially him and two of the other kings of the past sitting together and talking about the ways of rulership. Each is instrumental in understanding that character and how they approach life as it reveals so much through the little bits of off dialogue throughout. And to the surprise of many, depending on how you view the conversations, Saber really comes out the weakest of them. Of course, that may partially be my enjoyment of how Alexander views life and rulership."

They just said that Saber had the weakest view/ways about rulership. They didn't say anything about her being mocked by the others or her being one of the weakest character of the story. And here's what they said in their review for the second season:

"We get a far more personal fight between Saber and Berserker, finally finding out who it is under that mask which brings up some painful history for Saber that is really good to watch. What I like in particular is that it does take away from the idea that Saber is the one that will end things, something those that watched Fate/Stay Night knew wouldn’t happen, since she was painted as the right and true type here. She has a harsh reckoning here and seeing her back in the time between realizing the pain she caused, and suffered herself, while getting a glimmer of the future definitely hits all the right sweet spots."

They actually praised her role, shouldn't we mention it? https://www.fandompost.com/2014/01/20/fatezero-limited-edition-blu-ray-box-set-2-anime-review/

Honestly, the reception is poorly written because it does not exactly explain what they reviewers are discussing. No offense to the person who wrote the reception but I feel they have misread what the reviewers are actually writing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.128.87.226 (talk) 01:20, 2 December 2020 (UTC)

I believe that her reception should be expanded like Shirou's since Saber is the most popular and one of the most revered character in Fate series.94.128.87.226 (talk) 01:32, 2 December 2020 (UTC)