Talk:Sacagawea/Archive 1

Contradiction?
I believe there is a contradiction here: "Contrary to a common romantic view, Sacagawea did not act as a guide in essence on the main part of the trip. This falsehood originates in the early feminist movement and the inaccurate history of Grace Hebard. In fact, Sacagawea's knowledge of the land was limited to the areas in which she grew up.

It says she was not important but it says she help in the succession of the project. Is there something I'm not getting? -Linuxx

US Mint copyright
I believe that the US Mint has a copyright on the image on the Sacagawea dollar, so its use here MIGHT not be appropriate.


 * I had asked this on (I think) the U.S. quarter page, but still haven't found an answer; is there any source online we can consult to verify this one way or the other? (Otherwise I can write the Mint, but that'll take a while.) - Hephaestos 00:53, 28 Nov 2003 (UTC)
 * [+] I changed the apostrophe abuse from "IT'S USE" to "ITS USE". Sorry, pet peeve. GreatAlfredini Sun 09/24/05 08:51 AM Pacific Time


 * It is permitted to make pictures of United States coins without permission.

Pronounciation markup
Regarding pronunciation markup: it probably would be good to change this to SAMPA, if that's the Wikipedia standard (I don't know how, myself). However I think a mixture of two styles looks really bad. Additionally, the second-to-last syllable in Sacajawea is a long e, rather than a long a (Ethnology and Philology wasn't completely wrong). - Hephæstos|&#167; 18:08, 15 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Reunion with brother
Request for info: Reunion w/brother. Maybe I have been fooled by one of the legends but didn't she have a joyful reunion with the brother from whom she was separated as a child? GreatAlfredini Sun 09/24/05 08:51 AM Pacific Time
 * To GreatAlfredini: Sacagawea was reunited with her brother, Cameahwait, in mid-August 1805.  By all accounts it was a very joyful reunion and is considered instrumental to the eventual success of the expedition.
 * 64.136.173.16 05:44, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

Fort Ridger
I am not an historian at all. But I am listening to a radio show telling the story of Sacagawea (http://radio-canada.ca/url.asp?/radio/profondeur/RemarquablesOublies/accueil.html ...in French, though). According to Serge Bouchard, anthropologist and great specialist of the Aborigan history, after Toussaint left Sacagawea, she decides to leave her son to Lewis, and moves to the SouthWest, where she meets an Indian with whom she would have a relationship. The man dies in 1820. Sacagawea decides after his death to return to her home, to see her native land again. And according to many oral traditions, she became a homeless, so to speak...she was known as the "wandered woman"...she wandered from the South (the country of the Comanches) to the Canada. Near 1860, at 74 y.old and until the end of her life, she finally settles down with some of her relatives near "Fort Ridger". There, she meets and turns up again with Basil Legrand and Toussaint Jr, the two children of Toussain Sr, that he had with his first wife. She would die at 88.....Just learnt that his source is Olive Burt.....Okay...last message. He just mentioned that the most credible story is that Sacagawea probably died in 1812, but that there is a reasonable doubt she could have lived further. What is true is that an old woman would be much later at "Fort Ridger" claiming that she was Sacagawea....in my opinion, that would be worth mentioning.

Sacagawea name origin
Request for clarification: Sacagawea name origin

The first paragraph states that Sacagawea was Shoshone by birth kidnapped by a group of Hidatsa around the age of 13. Mentioned as a possible source for her name is a Hidatsa phrase referring to the moment of her birth. Does anybody know how or if this would have been possible? Is there any evidence of any other name when she returned to Shoshone lands and was reunited with her brother, Cameahwait? It seems to me that if her name was inspired by an event corresponding to her Shoshone birth and she did not live with Hidatsa until over a decade later that her name could not be of Hidatsa origin. 64.136.173.16 05:44, 17 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Last year (2004) I attended a lecture by the descendents of Sacajawea's brother at EWU in Cheney, Washington. Their stand is that Sacajawea, spelled with a "J" is her birth name. The tribe who kidnapped her (and brutaliy murdered several members of her family in the process) changed her name to whatever sounded similar in their own language - that's where the "bird woman" translation comes from. Not her birthname translation to english. I think her birth name translation to english means "carrying basket", but not sure about that. The descendents are very angry about what they believe is the mispelling of her name (like on wikipedia!). They feel it is a symbol of dishonoring her birth name and - it honors her kidnappers. I want to change all the spellings of Sacajawea on Wikipedia to the J spelling because I think we should honor the spelling that her direct descendents and birth tribe use (and not her kidnappers). That's a big project though... I tried to google the names of her descendents but not finding it - I think the older sister is named Rosemary? By the way, this was one of the best lectures I have ever attended. Very gifted speakers. Sadly, they are also very disappointed by the artwork chosen on the Sacajawea quarter. The woman looks no where near a Shoshone. She doesn't even look Indian (to me). I remember being very disappointed when that quarter came out also...--cda 03:42, 6 December 2005 (UTC) (forgot to sign this the first time, sorry) EDITED to add: finally had time to Google the name of the speaker I saw. Her name is Roseann Abrahamson. Googling also comes up with the name Ariwite family as descendents of Sacajawea's brother Cameahwait.
 * I have resisted changing all of the g's to j's simply because it could start an endless war of stubbornness with those who prefer the 'g' spelling and could get switched back and forth. Very tiresome and annoying.  I think the birth tribe members make a good case about the spelling, but it seems that the 'g' spelling is currently winning out among most scholars and historians, so I've personally decided to let it go.  I remember seeing something about the spelling&mdash;I think it was a placard at the National Bicentennial Exhibition&mdash;claiming that the origin of the 'j' spelling is unknown and only first appeared in the early-to-mid 20th century. (134.161.206.248 01:04, 6 December 2005 (UTC))
 * I should add that it is the mis-pronunciation that the family has the most problem with - they use the hard "j". And can't stand to hear "Suh-cog-uh-wea". I agree though, it would be a major re-write to change it and I'm not really sure there isn't more to the story of why it is spelled two ways. Better to thrash that out here first before any changes are made because it will be quite a disruption.--cda 03:42, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I heard that her name is spelled differently between the Shoshones and Hidatsas. Nobody knows which tribe it actally came from.

Eastern Shoshone claim of later death and burial
The Eastern Shoshone of the Wind River Indian Reservation assert that Sacajawea died decades later in April 1884, and is buried in or near Fort Washakie, Wyoming. There's a commemorative marker for Sacajawea of unknown age present in the area, with this 1941 marker from the Historical Landmark Commission of Wyoming pointing the way to the site. This appears to be a long-running dispute with the Agaidika or Lemhi Shoshone, the band whose home is near Salmon, Idaho. One example of the Eastern Shoshone story can be found here, with the Agaidka side of the story here. It would be interesting for someone to dispassionately sort out this controversy. 66.167.252.105 03:03, 22 November 2005 (UTC).
 * FYI a Public Broadcasting Service website here alludes to this dispute about her year of death. 66.167.252.89 19:56, 24 November 2005 (UTC).

If anyone would like to check out the marker, it's fairly straightforward. A few years ago I was driving with some relatives through Wyoming on a visit to Yellowstone, and on our way back my daughter, then age 12 or so, noticed a marker for Sacajawea's grave. She had recently read the most recent Sacajawea novel and of course was interested. SO we drove into Fort Washakie, looked around a bit but didn't see anything obvious. So I popped into a gas station/general store to ask, and one of the customers said he was driving home that direction & we could follow him. He took us right to it - large marker in the middle of a small, crowded little graveyard. He told us he appreciated our correct pronunciation, something which amuses me given the controversy outlined here. Who knows, eh? --Dan 21:22, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Why the fiction template?
i dont know There has been a template on the article for a couple of weeks. Does anyone believe it needs to be there? That template doesn't seem appropriate here since the article is about an actual historical person, not a fictional character that someone wrote about as if they were real. --Metropolitan90 23:44, 5 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree, and since nobody has bothered replying in the two weeks since you posted that, I'll just jump in and remove the template. Gene Nygaard 04:16, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Myths and legends
This section needs some citations, I have cleaned it up, but it might still be inaccurate, especially the last line. R-T-C 17:38, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Spelling
Who was the idiot who wrote "Sacagawea" for a name that sounds like "Sakajawia"?Cameron Nedland 04:26, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

not all languages have the same sounds, bro. some asian languages don't have a distinction between "r" and "l" sounds, which is why a japanese accent in english sometimes confuses the two. also, lewis is the same guy who writes her husband's name, which is Charbonneau, as Chabonah. so he's not the best speller. Bresci1900 08:41, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Up top near the beginning of the article, it says something along the lines of "Clark wrote of her to his husband, '.....'". Should that not say "Clark wrote of her to her husband" 01:49, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Expansion
I've made some concerted attempts to expand and reference this article over the last few days. Are there any problems with the additions? Any missing areas that should be addressed? &mdash; Catherine\talk 16:01, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

GA thoughts
I've done an initial glance-over of this article, and it looks quite good, though it would be nice if it included information on Baptiste, her son. However, it has a few "citations needed" tags, and, as such it can't be passed yet. Could you leave a message on my talk page once it's fixed? Adam Cuerden talk 06:38, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Failed 9/23/2006
I'm failing this because of not only the above not being addressed, but because of:


 * Some extraneous redlinked text at the end of a few lines. Who is this "Joseph Forman" person? Ditto with the "hddle" in the footnotes.


 * More needed references On top of the ones already flagged, the name section is especially frustrating (And shouldn't the common, erroneous pronuciation go up in the intro?). There are all of two footnotes in a section rife with weasel words and speculation and statements that need to be sourced. This needs to be redone carefully, and I don't think putting it on hold will turn the trick. I will tag it appropriately.

However, I do believe you can fix it and renominate. Daniel Case 02:59, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

The vote
The vote on where the expedition should winter over was US government function - therefore Sacajawea was the first woman, first teenager & first Indian to vote. She may have been the first non-white to vote, depending on whether York expressed his opinion first or not. --Dan 21:28, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Age inconsistencies
"(c. 1787 –" and "However, in 1800, when she was about 10" doesn't match. Anyone to explain? Barvinok 12:36, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Sacajawea's People - 100 Years of Exile - Ariwite
1907 - 2007 One hundred years since Sacajawea's People the Lemhi-Shoshone were stripped of Federal Recognition and exiled to Fort Hall, Idaho. www.lemhi-shoshone.com Online Petition - Made by a Lemhi descendant from the Salmon River Valley. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ariwite (talk • contribs) 15:35, 21 April 2007 (UTC).

Assessment comment
Substituted at 22:02, 3 May 2016 (UTC)