Talk:Safir T-15

M16A3
The M16A3 does *not* have a railed flat top. It has a fixed carrying handle, just like the M16A2. The only difference between the is that the A2 can shoot in semi-auto or three round bursts, while the A3 shoots in semi or fully auto. M16 (Colt model number 602)  - fully automatic, fixed carrying handle, old style fixed stock, no brass deflector or forward assist, older style iron sights, slab sided (no mag release fence), has a triple pronged, "duckbill" flash hider and triangular handguards. M16A1 (Colt model number 602 - fully automatic, fixed carrying handle, old style fixed stock, no brass deflector, has forward assist with teardrop shaped plunger, has older style iron sights, has small "fence" around the mag release button, has "bird cage" flash hider which produces the big star pattern we're used from the movies and triangular handguards M16A2  (Colt model number 645) - several improvements from A1. Burst fire, fixed handle, newer style fixed stock, has brass deflector and forward assist with round plunger. Has newer, adjustable iron sights. Full fence around mag release button. Has similar flash hider to A1, but only the slots on the top are open. Has round handguards and heavier barrel. M16A3 (Colt model number 646) - identical to the A2 except for the different fire modes. M16A4 (Colt model number 945) - identical to the A2 except from the removeable carry handle

--Stickie — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.29.104.251 (talk) 15:05, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

Notability
What makes this weapon notable? I added a notability tag, but it was deleted without comment. The article has few sources. The weapon appears to be yet another AR-15, distinguished only by the use of different materials in some components. I'm going to restore the tag until there's a consensus that the article is about a notable topic, or more sources are added, or an AFD resolves the matter. Felsic2 (talk) 18:37, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
 * The fact that it's a Turkish AR is fairly notable by itself. Your hatred for all things AR is fairly obvious, maybe you should try editing articles about things you like instead? Herr Gruber (talk) 09:31, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Please don't cast aspersions like that. It makes for a negative editing environment. And asking me to stop editing this topic is even more directly negative.
 * The guideline on notability is WP:N. It says:
 * Wikipedia articles cover notable topics—those that have gained sufficiently significant attention by the world at large and over a period of time, and are not outside the scope of Wikipedia. We consider evidence from reliable independent sources to gauge this attention. 
 * So we need "reliable independent sources" (note the plural) to show that this weapon is notable. There is only one source, a self-published blog. That's why I added the notability tag. Since you dispute the notability, the best way to resolve this may be to file an AFD request and let the community decide. Felsic2 (talk) 16:06, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Stop pretending you're some wounded angel here, claiming you're not doing what you are doing is accusing me of lacking the pattern recognition skills of a small child. Also, world.guns.ru is not a blog and is well-regarded as a reliable source, and is used as such in 214 articles at a casual search. A separate article is required since this is a specific weapon with its own particular dimensions and qualities, and it is notable since it is made by an established arms manufacturer. Granted, most English resources focus on the T14 derivative (.410 shotgun that has the benefit of actually being possible to import to the US easily since it has a 5-round magazine) and merging this with the rather...bizarre article on the T14 might be more productive. The fact that this article is a stub does not automatically mean you should try to delete it. Herr Gruber (talk) 17:28, 22 July 2016 (UTC)

The relevant guideline for notability of this product appears to be WP:PRODUCT. It says: I can't find any independent sources for the company, so it does not appear to be notable. Here's their website, translated: They claim to be the sole manufacturer of an AR-15 pattern shotgun. "SafirArms Company acquired the exclusive rights for the production of smooth-bore hunting weapons on the basis of the M16 design." That's interesting enough that people have written about the T-14, but not so many people have written about the T-15. We still need to find additional sources for this article to establish this product's notability. One is not sufficient. Felsic2 (talk) 21:34, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
 * If a company is notable, information on its products and services should generally be included in the article on the company itself, unless the company article is so large that this would make the article unwieldy.
 * Avoid creating multiple stubs about each individual product (PU-36 Explosive Space Modulator, Q-36 Explosive Space Modulator, R-36 Explosive Space Modulator, etc.) especially if there is no realistic hope of expansion.
 * ''If a non-notable product or service has its own article, be bold and merge it into an article with a broader scope (for example, an article about the type of product) or follow one of the deletion processes.
 * ''Note that a specific product or service may be notable on its own, without the company providing it being notable in its own right.
 * Yeah, the shotgun variant is actually pretty notable and a search turns up a lot of entries on it, hence my suggesting a merge for these two as say "Safir T-series." Herr Gruber (talk) 16:50, 28 July 2016 (UTC)
 * That's the best idea I've seen for how to solve this. Felsic2 (talk) 18:11, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Safir T-series. Felsic2 (talk) 22:09, 24 August 2016 (UTC)