Talk:Sagging (fashion)/Archive 1

How to maintain sagging trousers from falling
Someone should add an entry discussing how people maintain their pants in the sagging state as opposed to falling or fallen. I don't have that information, otherwise I would.
 * That falls under wearing of a belt that's tight, which is already in the article. --Signed and Sealed, JJJJust (T C) 06:22, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

I see many girls (14-17-years-old, jeez) in my school who 'sag.' Their pants seem like they're right above... that place - sorry, I don't feel comfortable talking about the privates of young teenage girls. What makes it worse is that their shirts don't come down far enough, so more bare skin shows. I'm not sure how to neutralize that, but then again, I'm not even sure whether or not it belongs in the article. Knightskye 01:49, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Along with the belts, some guys who wear the urban style of extremely baggy pants/shorts/something in-between employ a certain kind of gait. They bend their knees a bit, to support the upper parts of the garment, and then swing one leg forward and then the same for the next. "Preppy guys" and emo-rockers don't have the same worries when wearing jeans, due to the fit of their jeans keeping the garment more or less on the right parts. Should I add this? LewaMan 02:43, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Prison Sagging
The snopes reference link debunked the prison origin. Why was it added back in? Not An IP 02:48, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Actually, it confirmed the prison origin (read it again). It only debunked the sexual-availability-in-prison component. --Fluffbrain 16:41, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Belt across public area?
Well, what's not clear to me is the usage of the belt in maintaining the sagging fashion. It would seem to me that in order to wear the pants so low, the belt would have to go across the public area (groin) which certainly can't be that comfortable! It must be irritating! Any comments? -CH


 * Above the genitalia, and the belt not tied tight is what is seen. Iola k ana • T  17:54, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Just what is this "Public" area? Most people don't consider their privates to be public, and thus wear something over their pubic area. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.192.250.7 (talk) 20:46, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Problems with Article: Out of Youth Fashion for the last 5 or so years
Actually, in San Francisco anyway, it is still fairly widespread. Looks like they're walking around with a heavy load in their dirty diapers. --Fluffbrain 16:43, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Sagging is a Male Fashion Statement - Women don't sag their pants, why oh why is someone saying they do - when they don't.

- I've seen girls sagging. Its not a mainstream trend, but you do see it. Sometimes with baggy pants like guys often do. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.192.80.129 (talk) 21:48, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Male/Female Sagging
Can we come to some kind of consensus on the Male/Female sagging issue and stop the revert war currently going on? Not An IP 12:32, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Well as far as I am aware and concerned, only Males sag their pants, not girls there is nothing on the internet about females and I can't even find a valid source. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.108.52.34 (talk • contribs) 13:41, 29 September 2006


 * The previous comment was "signed" by me but I did not post it.Not An IP 04:33, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

I am 46 years old. I live in San Francisco. I have NEVER seen a woman "sagging."

Also, it's up to y'all sagging enthusiasts, but one of the External Links, "Saggerworld," seems to be a non-pornographic photo site for gay men who lust after "sagging" young guys. --Fluffbrain 16:41, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

I have posted a reference to a source about women sagging, as well as a picture Wtroo (talk) 23:22, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Attention: "Not an IP":
Snopes does NOT debunk prison origin (see above). A quote from the Snopes page: "Origins: The practice, which did begin in prisons, worked its way from the hoosegow into hip hop culture. It was adopted by a variety of rap artists, such as Ice-T and Too Short, which enhanced its perceived tough-guy cachet." I myself don't really care, as I think it is a repulsive "fashion" statement, and I'm not sure why I even looked at this page, but if you want to be accurate about this, you might try READING the Snopes page (or at least the relevant quotation from it, above). --Fluffbrain 04:37, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Swim shorts ?
Does anyone know whether guys sagg with swim shorts, too? I´ve seen people in swim shorts wearing underwear underneath. You can see it more often in swimmingpools. Can anyone tell about it. -- User:Wolle 14:36, 17 October 2006 (212.7.174.107 12:35, 17 November 2006 (UTC))

It is not uncommon to where boxers underneath a bathing suit and therefore, many timesat beachs or swimming pools, you can see the "sagging" fashion.

In my own experience, being a teenage guy, sagging is used with jeans, shorts, swimsuits (primarily swim trunks or boardshorts). Swim trunks and boarshorts can and are 'sagged' below the hip, but not to the extent jeans or shorts are, due to the (usual) absence of underwear. Why one would wear underwear under swim trunks is beyond me, but under boardshorts is understandable. LewaMan 02:38, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

origins of sagging...maybe
When i was a child growing up in oakland, CA all the OGs would say that "back in the day" the only reasons someone would sag was A) if they didn't have a belt. B) because they were wearing hand-me-down pants that were too small to be worn normally without either "flooding" or chafing thus they would be sagged for comfort and aethetic. Or C) because the sagger was either some sort of addict or were living some other lifestyle that might diminish someone's sence of self-respect to the degree that they simply wouldn't bother to pull up thier pants all the way. Furthermore sagging wasn't a desirable condition, it was seen as tacky or, as one might say these days, anyone sagging was considered a "scrub".

like a lot of trends and fashions sagging was originally done for the sake of utility but over time became associated with a certain status (i.e. thug life!). the following generations then adopted this meme for the status rather than the utility. even further down the line the previous suppositions about status are lost as the fashion leaks into other subcultures and thus becomes a trend in the mainstream.

This is what I think anyway... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Emotionmachine (talk • contribs) 00:25, 7 December 2006 (UTC).

-- I think the origin of sagging has his roots in that human stupidity has no limits...

I was once told that sagging made the statement "Kiss my black A**" - which nowadays makes no sense as there are a lot of white saggers. It's just dumb- and that goes for wearing caps sideways too.Saxophobia (talk) 19:52, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Sagging as a 'gay movement' is non-notable
Having searched for evidence of such a thing, and finding nothing, I am thoroughly unconvinced that such a thing as a gay "sagging admirer culture", or sagging as a gay phenomenon actually exist...with the exception, of course, of some voyeur sites for looking at young boys that were previously linked to from this article (these links have since been removed). Despite my efforts to find evidence of sagging as a gay fashion phenomenon in a reputable source, I found none. Every article concerning the fashion of sagging that I found only spoke of sagging as most notably being an element of hip hop style. Some mentioned the style catching on with skaters and other rebellious types. None described it the manner that this article does, nor supported such questionable statements as "In some parts of the world, it has become very popular for guys to sag while shirtless, especially on warm days."


 * http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/living/2003312736_saggypants22.html
 * http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/02/10/wsag10.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/02/10/ixnewstop.html
 * http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m4021/is_n11_v18/ai_18819521
 * http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4196/is_20050216/ai_n11008203

Triggtay 07:06, 6 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm removing the LGBT tag from this page. If any objections please discuss here. Triggtay 06:24, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

I've seen evidence of gay "sagging admirer culture". Anyway, it makes perfect sense so it probably is true. (Huey45 (talk) 08:35, 5 August 2009 (UTC))

Recommendation for Article Protection
I sugest that this article be protected as people have been moding this article from its intial stand point and meaning KB1KOI 21:21, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Sagging is incredibly dated. And maybe 10 years ago it was a universal fashion trend among young men (such as in Clueless) it's a fashion style primarily being worn today by youths who consider themselves either "ballers" or "gangstas." It is no longer associated with skating or punk music. As all those styles have gone for the more retro 70's looking tighter jeans and tighter smaller shirts as well as the longer hair.

There are two big problems I have with this article. It doesn't really give a rhyme or reason as to why or how this trend started. 1990's male fashion was very much about redefying what it meant to be a man and or masculine. And so we saw throughout the decade mens underwear, swimwear, and casual wear become longer and baggier while women's wear continued to stay smaller and tighter. This is a very fascinating subject in itself. But besides that, the biggest problem that I have with the article is that it makes the assumption that fashion has not changed from the 1990s to this current decade. And that's just false. Sagging pants are the bell bottom equivalent of the 90's. And with the exeption of a few teen subcultures that seek to emulate the "pimp" or "gangsta" culture, it is pretty outdated. At least on the coasts.

Originate from NY Hardcore Punk scene
The style of sagging trousers did not originate in Hip Hop circles. It was prominent in the New York Hardcore scene years before any rapper started doing so, I believe this should be mentioned.


 * I can't claim to have any knowledge of Punk. However, I can say that in the early 90's when sagging first became a nationwide phenomenon, those kids (myself included) where doing it in emulation of gangsta rappers (and news sources from that period affirm this), who dressed in the style of the LA gangbangers (mind you, many were LA gangbangers--e.g. snoop, warren g, & nate dogg were crips; mac 10 & cypress hill were bloods) who had turned a jailhouse nuisance into a style.


 * Thus, though they may not have been the first to ever wear their pants low (evidently new york punk rockers beat them to it), the widespread cultural phenomenon of sagging didn't begin until gangsta rappers from Los Angeles popularized it. I take no issue with stating that the punks did it first, however to say that they started the trend would be misleading, because between them and the likes of Ice Cube no link is evidentTriggtay 05:47, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Where are the pictures
i need to see some samples of saggers- where are they? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.226.236.243 (talk) 23:11, 25 January 2007 (UTC).


 * Previously a user attempted to fill this article with images extracted from voyeuristic porn sites, accompanied by lascivious content and links. I hope that the above comment does not indicate that this user has returned and intends to continue his previous efforts. If so, I implore you to please exercise some restraint, and remember that the internet is a pretty big place, and that there are other sites out there whose purposes are consistent with that kind of contribution. However, I fail to see how such contributions would contribute to this site's stated aims. Triggtay 15:28, 26 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Wikipedia, as you should know, is not censored, and contains a great of of sexual content (see for example this recent featured article. For an article about fashion like this one, a picture is far clearer than a description, as described in the unofficial essay WP:GRAPE.


 * Cheesewiz's contributions were inappropriate not because they showed pictures of people's underwear, but because (a) they were frivolous in tone, and (b) they served as spam for a commercial website.


 * The album cover was cut because the fair-use policy allows such images only for articles about the album itself, not related topics.


 * 68.164.187.28 20:36, 26 January 2007 (UTC)


 * You would think it would be incredibly easy to create an image for this page yourself JayKeaton 19:09, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Anti-sagging laws??
This can't be true. Someone reference this?

http://www.ajc.com/blogs/content/shared-blogs/ajc/cop/entries/2005/09/23/the_lowdown_on.html

This article exists but it was a joke.


 * "Cover your vital parts," says mayor of Delcambre, Louisiana.
 * http://www.azcentral.com/offbeat/articles/0614saggybritches14-on-odd.html
 * Phx Johnny 20:29, 14 June 2007 (UTC) -  Johnny

The Shamontiel article reference is self-published
This article [] which was cited for this article seems to be self-published. It is from the website associatedcontent.com, which allows anyone to submit content and have it displayed on their website. Basically, this article is like a blog and is not a reliable resource.--Section8pidgeon 09:25, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Another voyeur photo?
This article has had problems in the past with people posting pics of kids from voyeur websites. I think the pic of the skateboarder is another example. The caption is kind of suspect. "young teen...tight jeans". I'm going to delete it. Check the user's discussion page(User_talk:Sblngpedia11), by the way. Evidently, he has been blocked for vandalism in the past. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.180.205.207 (talk) 02:34, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Non rapper sagging pics?
At the moment we have two (not very good) pictures of rappers sagging their pants. Since it is mianly a youth fashion trend, would a picture of a sagging teenager be important to add to the article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.192.80.129 (talk) 21:51, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Sagging as a predominantly urban minority phenomenon.
Why does this article not discuss race as a predisposing factor for sagging? Is there no data to back up this caim? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.110.194.224 (talk) 10:18, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Hi, welcome to the XXI century, were recent studies show that race has absolutely nothing to do with predisposition to wear your troussers. Also, im very sorry to inform you that other practices such as phrenology are currently obsolete.200.83.56.253 (talk) 05:05, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Police
Should the article not mention that police forces seem to countenance the wearing of baggy pants, however comical and ludicrous, because they make it easier to catch the thieving little criminals after they rob a convenience store for dope money? It's hard to run well with your pants below your buttocks. Silly asses.

Alternative explanation
When I was in school, my DARE officer (who had previously been an undercover narcotics officer) claimed that sagging originated with gang members showing (by the color or brand of their underwear) their gang affiliation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.81.170.62 (talk) 20:52, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

why do plumbers sag?
are they following this so called "fashion trend"? also that picture is kind of bad, what does sagging have to do with pulling your boxers up to your chest? 168.103.90.206 (talk) 13:29, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

oh god
"This manner of dress is practiced by young males[citation needed]" You guys suck. Seriously, we need to prove that? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.168.71.168 (talk) 19:19, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Primary Source Information
When I went to middle school, sagging was the fashion, and it was 90% white guys doing it. It was part of the Abercrombie look. It was part of the skater/baggy look too. Also, I'm pretty sure the "reason" behind it is that 1) it's comfortable and 2) every other guy wears his pants low, so you don't want to be the only guy wearing your pants high and look like a tool. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.163.180.111 (talk) 04:23, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Style
Before I started J-high (a long, long time ago), My cousin told me that I could sag. She also discussed several "cute"(in her opinion)boys who sag, as well as the styles she'd seen. She said that if I sagged, I should only sag about 2 inches down.(She called this 2-inching, and I have seen this and three inch sagging more among white teens, most of whom do not consider themselves gangsters and sag for comfort or sexual reasons[I belong to both of these categories], while I have seen "whole ass sagging", or sagging revealing the entire "rear" only covered in boxers, more common amongst black males and white people who consider themselves gangsters. This stlye is shown in the only picture shown on the article)

I propose a style section of this artcle —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wtroo (talk • contribs) 13:37, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Style Part 2
Sagging started in prisons because prisoners wore oversize pants and has belts and shoe laces taken away because they would be used as weapons against other inmates or prisoners can hang themselves with such items. Also, about a year ago on the Dr. Phil show they did a show on this sagging pants. Who did Dr. Phil also have on the show....The Reverant Al Sharpton...Mr. Shaprton confirms that the sagging pants started in prisons and seems to have gotten to urban touths in 1990s because some rap musicians(expecially the ones that wer in prison) have used it in their Rap music videos.

Also from some of my many friends who are school teachers say that many school districts across the United States have banned sagging pants is prohibited as vulgar & unhealthy and/or associated with street gangs, which is also a reason probably why many school districts have adopted the used of school uniforms in recent years. - - - - - - —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sharon25 (talk • contribs) 06:33, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
 * As soon as you can cite this info to reliable sources, feel free to add it back. - SummerPhD (talk) 19:19, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
 * As soon as you can cite this info to reliable sources, feel free to add it back. - SummerPhD (talk) 19:19, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Tone and citations
I checked the recent edits, and there's been a lot of potentially useful but unsourced material inserted then quickly removed. This material is also typically added in an informal rather than encyclopedic tone.

To those adding such material: Please write it in an encyclopedic tone, without commentary, and please include supporting references.

To those deleting material on sight: Thank you for keeping Wikipedia encyclopedic. However, if you have time, please consider helping these people out by rewriting it for them and doing their homework for them by finding references.

davidwr/ (talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail)  03:33, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
 * During a substantial clean up of the article, I removed the section in question as unsourced and POV. It was restored by Spaceman42/Fguy 1977/Sharon25. I have attempted to discuss the issue with this user several times and have yet to receive a reply. I added a number of sources to the material and cleaned up what I could. The section in question here seems to be sourced to claims of personal conversations with non-reliable sources and memories of personal opinions stated on a talk show a year ago. I cannot find a source for these. What someone said on a talk show it their opinion. We cannot, however, cite the Reverand's opinion based on what I've read in an edit summary. What a teacher told this editor is not citable either. If s/he can find a reliable source for this concept, the article can certainly use it. - SummerPhD (talk) 18:56, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
 * During a substantial clean up of the article, I removed the section in question as unsourced and POV. It was restored by Spaceman42/Fguy 1977/Sharon25. I have attempted to discuss the issue with this user several times and have yet to receive a reply. I added a number of sources to the material and cleaned up what I could. The section in question here seems to be sourced to claims of personal conversations with non-reliable sources and memories of personal opinions stated on a talk show a year ago. I cannot find a source for these. What someone said on a talk show it their opinion. We cannot, however, cite the Reverand's opinion based on what I've read in an edit summary. What a teacher told this editor is not citable either. If s/he can find a reliable source for this concept, the article can certainly use it. - SummerPhD (talk) 18:56, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

definition of sagging is not simply showing underwear
it's actually pulling your pants real low. several people wear their pants below the waist and boxers usually for comfort not for style e.g. plumbers.199.117.69.60 (talk) 00:22, 15 May 2009 (UTC)