Talk:Sailing/Archive 1

Diagram
This page needs a vector diagram of the forces due to wind and the water. In particular, show that sailing upwind works by maintaining a positive component of the force vector into the wind. Cburnett 20:02, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Multis and monos
The seriousness of this article needs to be cranked up a few notches. I'be begun by removing the outright rant wrt monohulls vz multis:


 * Multihulls, especially catamarans, sail much faster than monohulls. Unhappily it is common wisdom that in the open ocean, monohulls are the only safe design.  Monohulls remain upright because their buoyancy is higher than their center of gravity.  In severe storm or wave conditions, a monohull will recover from a capsize well enough for the crew to jury-rig some sails and limp to a port.  A multihull will remain capsized and adrift, probably killing its crew.

-- Egil 07:02 Feb 11, 2003 (UTC)


 * I have read dthat Multi-hulls on the open ocean actually travel slower or at the same speed as monohulls. just adding trivia. -- colinpcarr


 * I've started to include some basic sailing theory and intend to continue to develop it as time allows. I've also tried to resequence it a bit so that it starts off with the simple stuf and then builds up to the more advanced aspects. I know there's still a lot more to do so if you want to help please "fill your boots" :-)  PS If anyone thinks this is NOT the best page for this stuff please let me know. Thanks Julianp


 * I'll start working. colincarr, multihulls are light, and so they can't really punch through the waves the same way monohulls can. Additionally, if they have to start going through waves, their efficiency is greatly reduced. So, in wavy conditions nearshore or offshore, you'll find traditional multihulls go slower than monohulls. However, advanced multihulls such as SWATH hulls can move fairly fast. You should also mention hydrofoilers (such as the Moth dinghy). (Forgot sig again.) - Dastal 23:06, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
 * On the subject of saftey in multihulls versus monohulls, there is some validity to that argument. More specifically, the rule is that any monohull competing in Type 3 or above racing must be able to self-right. That is to say, has to be able to right from the action of the waves alone. Most monohulls acomplish this by being more stable upright then they are capsized. I'm not sure how they apply this rule to offshore dinghy racing. - Dastal 16:40, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

Overall comments
This page has some good stuff in it, but IMO it is NOT very encyclopedic in style. The Sailing Techniques section reads too much like a How-To manual, I think we would be much better off with a more detatched analysis of sailing theory; basic aero and hydro dynamic forces acting on a boat, the relation between sail trim and relative wind, ect.

Also, this article also focuses pretty much exclusively on recreational bermundian sloops, which is understandable, but it would be nice to try to include (at least implicitly) other types of boats and rigging in the scope of the article.

I would like to hear peoples opinions on this before I start editting. --BadSeed 11:39, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

I just completed a fairly massive overhaul of the types of sails and layouts, though it's not quite finished. - Dastal 18:10, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

Waay to much How-To. It is like a mini-textbook for a sailing course. Even to the How-To needs to be worked over because a lot of it is so general as to be useless. Hull Trim, for instance, is generally sorta correct, except many boats aren't trimmed like that. You don't move aft in a Laser or a Thistle when going downwind unless it is really blowing. Often, it is faster to move weight way forward on the downwind. Not that I think we should go explaining that. My point is that the how-to format is unencyclopedic and also unworkable, because you have to have how-to (dinghies), how-to (keelboats), how-to (skiffs), how-to (cruisers), etc., etc., and you never reach the end. I feel bad ranting about this, because I don't have time to do the rewrite myself right now unless I quit my job. Tempting. Hmmm. Mrees1997 17:53, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Sailing skills
First, I think the article is great. What about putting together some practical skills; docking, MOB (man over board), uncapsizing a dinghy, some images for points of sail, etc..

I especially would like to add docking because if there is anyway we could make an impact to "the world of docking", I watch people bounce around their slips all day, I believe everyone would be happier.:-) Colin Carr 15:49, 1 May 2004 (UTC)

Good ideas. Please go for it Julianp 06:51, 14 May 2004 (UTC)

Sailing hulls and hull shapes
I added a section on the layout and advantages of multihulls Gary Mulder 18:00, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Sailboat Racing
Also added a short para. with some references to other WP articles on the most major races Gary Mulder 18:00, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Where's the history section?
There's a lot here about modern sailing, but barely a word on the history of sailing. Same goes for sail. Are there really no takers on this aspect of it...? Peter Isotalo 7 July 2005 03:09 (UTC)


 * Ditto! I came for the same thing.  Too much emphasis on competition sailing. -Timvasquez
 * I'll get to work on that as I have time. Cheers. --Dastal 22:44, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

* There is nothing on this page about the history on sailing!! My project is due Friday, Nov.03,2006 DUH!!!!!!!!!


 * Absolutely! For those of us interested in ancient sailing (Egyptian, Greek, Roman), this article offers little guidance. 144.82.107.47 (talk) 13:28, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

The physics of sailing
The explanation using wings of airplane can more precisely described with the aerodynamic equation called Bernoulli Equation. It states that when fluid (in this case air) flow faster, the pressure will drop. Due to the difference in air flow on both sides of the sail, the pressure difference causes a resultant force pushing the sail forward.


 * Actually, this is not entirely correct. According to Sail Power, a major text on the aerodynamics of sailing, it is mostly a rotational effect that creates momentum while sailing upwind. Otherwise factors such as slot width would be unimportant. Moreover, most modern sails are, at most, 3 mm thick. (These are more the high end mylar sheet/kevlar tape sails, though the sails on the Lark-hull dinghies used at Tufts University are certainly no thicker than that, and they are dacron.), creating a minimal pressure differential according to the Bernulli equation. Considering that the sails on 30-40 foot keelboats can generate upwards of 10 tons of force in moderate winds, it would seem that the Bernulli Equation is not the major source of force in sailing. (Edited to add signature.)--Dastal 22:44, 15 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Besides this, if this effect did apply, the sail would bow into the wind and it would be possible to sail dead straight into the wind. This is utter nonsense.  In all cases, the boat moves because as the wind pushes the sail, only the component of the force on the sail that is parrallel to the keel will have effect.  Although the wind pushes the sail from one side of the sail's normal vector, the wind is also deflected to the other side of the normal vector so that the majority of the resulting force on the sail is parallel to the normal vector of the sail.  Therefore, the sail will always be limited to an angle between the forward direction of the boat and the source of the wind (for simplicity, I am ignoring effects of frictional drag and bowing of the sail).  Furthermore, depending on the angle of incidence of the wind on the sail, the effective area of the sail varies: if the sail is left to point straight away from the wind, then the effective area of the sail is nill.  Taking these two statements into account, as the boat is more closely directed into the wind, the sail is more limited to smaller angles and, therefore, smaller effective areas.  Thus, the more the boat points into the wind it has less power to move forward, until it must finally stop when it is pointing straight into the wind.  In fact, this stop must come sooner because frictional drag and other effects are involved too.

When sailing directly with the wind, the boat approaches the speed of the wind so that the relative speed of the wind to the sail is decreased. Sailing at an angle to the wind, the boat must move faster to effect the same decrease of relative speed because it is only the component of the boat's velocity vector that is parallel to the wind that decreases the relative speed.

I was in an E-Mail discussion with somebody who claimed that a boat can go faster downwind than the wind. It is well known that a boat on a reach can go faster than the wind, but I didn't realize that it was also the case downwind. I didn't believe the person, but then I did some research and found the references explaining why this doesn't violate basic physical principles and why it works. I've added that to the article.--Gautier lebon (talk) 13:50, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Needs a re-org
Hi all, Just thought I'd stick my whisker pole in here... I think that we have the basis of a great article here — or more correctly a series of articles. I think that a fairly major re-org is needed, and I'd start by splitting off at least one "child" article:
 * Sailing should be a general overview of the sport
 * Technique of sailing (suggest a better name?) should contain the "physics", and all the how-to stuff
 * Sailing boats and rigs (suggest a better name?), to discuss boat types (monos, multis, ketches, schooners, etc.) and rigging (bermudan, gaff, junk, sprit, etc.)

And yes, we need a History bit, which could conceivably become a separate article.

Also, we need to mention single-handed versus double-handed and crewed sailing somewhere.

What do folks think of this? Just FYI, I'm working on getting all the single-handed sailing articles up to scratch — see my user page for a list. — Johantheghost 15:26, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

Reorg or rewrite?
I agree its a bit bitty, and needs some tidying up. But it doesn't seem unwieldy, the bits seem to belong together. Should we try to rearrange the sections, renaming where need be? I don't really see the need for child articles, someone needing to find out about sailing could reallywant ot know about principles, skills, history, etc,. and therefore have his/her need met by looking up one article. Is there a coherent case for splitting up what we've got? Perhaps the history of sailing would be good, as its a bit of a specialist topic.

TonyClarke 19:26, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

What is a knockdown?
Hi all, I just removed this from the article:


 * ... if however the boat heels beyond a certain point of stability, it can be knocked-down or capsize. A boat is said to have been knocked-down when the tip of the mast touches the water. When a boat floats fully inverted it is said to be capsized.

I believe this is incorrect, or at least misleading; in this definition, a gentle capsize in a dinghy on a duck pond would be called a knockdown. I don't believe that a knockdown is simply when the mast tip touches the water. In all the sailing literature I've read, a knockdown happens when sailing in the ocean, when the boat is hit by a steep following wave and violently thrown on to her side. The key is the violent part; a dinghy will capsize very gently if you simply sheet in and sit on the wrong side, but a knockdown is something that can cause a dismasting.

Now, this is my understanding, but before editing the article, I'd like to have other views, since I've never seen an actual definition of a knockdown, and how it relates to a broach. — Johan the Ghost seance 10:48, 15 March 2006 (UTC)


 * That does sound overly scientific and not in agreement with standard usage among recreational sailors in my area. To me, knockdown always implies a sudden change in trim past equalibrium; the boat heels significantly farther than it should (though not necessarily as far as the mast touching the water) and doesn't immediately right itself. Dinghy sailors and those in small monohulls (20-35 feet) would call a knockdown what happens when a sudden gust overwhelms the boat, usually because the sails can't be eased fast enough. "Man, when that squall hit us, we took a knockdown and the genoa track blew out." When reaching with a spinnaker, a knockdown can be caused by a gust or windshift; the boat is overcanvassed for the new speed/direction, and the spinnaker has too high a center of gravity and holds the boat down.


 * A knockdown can also be caused by a wave in the open ocean, a much more serious situation, but I don't think it's limited to that. Otherwise, we need a new term for small boats getting pushed over almost onto their sides (from which they recover eventually, though dinghies are more likely to actually "capsize" -- sails flat on the water, needing to be righted -- at that point of heel).


 * A broach happens when a boat suddenly accelerates, causing it to turn (upwind) and to heel onto its leeward side (centripetal force and hydrodynamics play roles here; the boat gets too much lift off the keel, causing it to turn, and the turning and acceleration cause it to heel more, as I understand it in simple terms). It can be caused by a following wave suddenly accelerating the hull, or by a wind gust, usually under spinnaker. After a broach, a boat is square to the wind and held down on its side; all heck breaks loose. In that sense, a broach could be considered a specific kind of knockdown, perhaps.


 * Others may have more precise definitions, but sailors aren't linguists. DavidH 21:55, 15 March 2006 (UTC)


 * That all sounds good to me; I'm obviously more familiar with the ocean side of things, but I guess the common thread is that "knockdown" implies some degree of suddenness / violence. Your point about capsize not being synonymous with upside-down is also good; a capsize, to me, is simply when a boat is rolled beyond her point of self-righting.  For a keelboat, this usually means upside-down, but for a dinghy it will usually be what you said — 90° over, sails flat on the water. — Johan the Ghost seance 12:19, 16 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Since I started it I feel I'd better take this chance to be heard. Unequivocally a boat is NOT capsized UNLESS the boat is inverted. All else can follow from there. Since a boat on its beam ends is NOT inverted, you cannot say it is capsized. If dinghy sailors in lakes in some parts of the country (world) have been saying they are 'capsized' when in fact they have not inverted their dinghies, then they have been mistaken. I suggest this is clear as per the article on Capsize - to wit: "Capsizing refers to when a boat is inverted such that the bottom of the boat is on top. The term is also used to describe a boat that has broached, pitch poled, rolled, or sunk."


 * Now the definition of a 'knockdown' is simple - it is when the beam ends (topsides or sides of the hull) are touching the water. This would be a 90 degree shift from the boats normal trim. The mast at this point may or may not actually touch the water depending on if the sails are bent on, how bendy the mast is, etc. Once the boat passes 90 degrees and reaches (say) 95 degrees surely the mast is now touching the water regardless and yet you still cannot say the boat is capsized.


 * Being knocked down has nothing to do with suddeness or strength of wind or wave, it merely describes the orientation of the vessel relative to its normal axis. Ahem. Even a boat with its mast pointing at 145 or 165 degrees is not technically capsized - it has to be 180 degrees inverted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jordanbigel (talk • contribs)


 * That sounds like a non-sailor's definition to me. I can't imagine a sailor insisting on using a protractor before deciding that a boat is capsized.  Anyhow, US Sailing should know:
 * A small boat is said to capsize when it rolls over upside down or on its side with its mast and sails in the water. Turtling is a type of capsizing but only refers to the turning of the boat completely upside down with its sails and mast pointing vertically toward the sea bottom.   Capsizes usually occur when a sudden guest of wind catches the skipper and crew off guard.


 * And Safer Sailing:
 * As most sailors learn at some point in their sailing career, a knockdown occurs when an exceptionally large gust of wind, perhaps in combination with a wave, knocks your boat over onto its side with the sails parallel to the water.


 * From ESPN's Americas Cup pages:
 * Broach: When a keelboat sailing on a run capsizes from a strong puff of wind or gets knocked down by a wave. Also called a Knockdown or a Wipeout.


 * From Sailors Choice:
 * BROACH: To go over violently toward the wind and lose steering, a "knock down"


 * From what I can see, "capsize" means what I thought: you've tipped over beyond the boat's righting angle, so you stay down. "Knockdown" seems to have different meanings to dinghy versus ocean sailors, but the common thread seems to be getting pushed over to mast-on-the-water or more.  In a dinghy, that may be from just a puff, but for a heavy-displacement ocean boat (like mine) it would have to be something much more scary.  "Turtled" is perfectly clear: upside-down.  — Johan the Ghost seance 15:12, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Capsize just means that the boat is over and staying over. A turtled boat is still capsized. With a dinghy you just lever it over and you are back in sailing trim. A keel boat will NEVER capsize unless there are dire circumstances (Such as dropping the keel). keel boats are what is called "Self righting". That means that at any angle they heel too, including right down to 90 degrees, they will right themselves once preasure is taken off the sails. When this happens it is called a knockdown. The keel boat heals over to the point that the sails stop functioning and the boat then rights itself. What causes a kockdown is ussually a "Broach". This is when, on a reach, the boat heals to leaward and the tip of the boom hits the water. This will often cause the main to tighten up to the wind, with crew being unable to sheet out due to water preasure on the boom. The boat heads up into the wind as it heals over and it's profile in the water changes (same theroy as roll tacking) and is ussually "knocked down" before it can recover. Please note that broaching is EXTREAMLY dangerious and a condition to be avoided at ALL costs. This is also how you commonly break masts at sea.


 * The 1979 Fastnet Report defined B1 knockdowns as when the mast is horizontal. B2 knockdowns are anything beyond that including a 360 roll.  It is possible for a keel boat to capsize and to stay inverted.  Virtually all commercially produce keel boats are capable of this, that is to say a very, very small number are actualli self-righting.  Mosy knockdowns occur as a result of being struck by the breaking crest of a wave not by broaching.  I can atest to this as I have been party to a goodly number of broaches and have never been 'knocked-down'.  Broaching is not fun but is a very real part of competitive sailing due to the unstable nature of modern sailing hullforms.  Capsize on the other hand IS very dangerous and, as noted occurs when a boat stays inverted, obviously it does not need to be at 180 degrees of heel to be 'capsized'.  It just means that, left to its own devices the hull will not come back upright again.

Jmvolc 01:31, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Apparent Wind
Added a bit about apparent wind when going downwind as it's a significant factor there. (not sure about my wording of it - maybe someone literate could improve?) Singlefin 16:30, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

another method of reefing
when i used to sail Optimists i remember we used to reef them by ommiting the sprit, folding the sail over and attatching the folded peice with a special elastic cord. Is this a common enough method of reefing to go in the reefing section of this article? Plugwash 19:01, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

The method of attaching the sail while reefing may vary widely dependant on the rigs. It is important to make sure that the reefed portion is well attached to the boom but that the reefing lines are in no way in danger of getting caught in the pulleys or at a risk of tearing the mainsail when running on a beam reach or reach.

This needs to be rewritten
This needs to be rewritten. I have added some lines to "The Physics of Sailing" to correct terms. Who else here is a sailing instructor? I belive we should be taking material from the CYA White Sail handbook and US Sailing's program and rewriting them to fit this article. Any thoughts on contacting these organization and requesting permission to reprint the information here? That would be by far the easiest method of a rewrite. If that is not a good idea, I think that we have to determine a level that we are going to write too. If we are only going to to write to a White Sail III level then mentions of the Spin and the physics of sailing may be too much. But if we are going to write up at the bronze level this is all in, only leaving out the technicalities of racing (Silver Sail).

I also note a great lack in informative diagrams. In the physics of sailing section there should be at LEAST a diagram of the Bernonli and Venturi effects as well as how to determine the Centre of Lateral Resistance and the centre of effort and how they cancil each other out to create forward momentium. This would be a far clearer explination then trying to say "the force exerted on the sail is represented by a vector comming off at 90 degrees from the boom. As the sail is sheeted in and the boat heads up into the wind, the effort exerted on the boat from the sail becomes more lateral and creates leaway.  The centreboard, or keel acts exerting force at 90 degrees from the centre of lateral resistance canciling out lateral movment and converting the force acting on the sails into forward momentium."

I want to do a full rewrite but could use the help of any other instructors that might be out there.

Peace!


 * Agreed, this very much needs to be rewritten. Would love to see some history, be great if we could find someone who could fill that in to work with. Some parts are nice, but it is erratic, and the introduction needs work. Some specific items from intro, perhaps they could be altered? Perhaps it could also be a bit shorter.
 * "strafing to the sides?", how about slips to the sides or leeway?
 * "...it is pushed in the direction that it bows."
 * .."if the sail is pointed just as the boat, then the boat will only be pushed sideways" - This is not true. Depending on the camber
 * I unfortunatly can't help until the fall, so havn't wanted to suggest a rewrite or cleanup, but agree it is need. --Augustz 03:56, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

I came across this when looking for ideas about another analogous article. It seems that there are several articles here. It should not be a textbook on sailing, so the first job would be to move out the section on knots. After that: There is much good material here already, so it probably would not take too long. JMcC 17:39, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
 * There should be an article about the use of wind to propel a ship/boat, and types of vessel perhaps with a brief history, ie mainly about the vessels themselves. The physics of sailing might fit in here, but that might also have to be spun off.
 * There should be an article about the sport of sailing and its various branches from wind-surfing to ocean racing, again with a brief history
 * Perhaps another article on the commercial use of sailing from prehistory to the nineteenth century
 * There should also be an article on how to do it, where it applies to all vessels from schooners to dinghies. The two references to rules of the road could be brought in here.
 * Terminology can be a separate article though it should also be spread throughout the other articles with explanations.

Request for Help
I write a blog called livesaildie, and recently we've began teaming up with other sailing bloggers from right across the world. We seeking to create an entire wiki devoted purelly to sailing. The knowledge that is here is great, but sailing is a huge sport and I hope we can expand it into areas beyond what is suitable on wikipedia. We can't simply copy content off Wikipedia due to incompatibility between Creative Commons and LGPL licencing, but if any of you would like to help out, it'd be much appreciated.

The project is entirelly just for fun, with no ads on the site and everyone just helping out for fun. Its called wetwiki and can be found here :) I apologise in advance if this breaks any wikipedia rules.

NEW REQUEST their is a problem on a link titled.....Sailing traditions and etiquette..... it states a ship should pull up its [fenders] on leaving the harbor, however the link goes to FENDER GUITARS, so what is a ships fender ??? i don't know... thanx...j

Re-write effort -- non "how-to"
I have de-how-to-ified the "hull trim" section. This is just a start. This is the kind of treatment that should be applied to each section. (Some of the sections will go away because they are pure how-to.)

The sailing primer should be written in Wikibooks. The encyclopedia entry here in Wikipedia should explain just enough about each aspect of sailing so as to clear the fog from the mind of the uninitiated, not give a bunch of detail and instructions. One of the problems with the how-to stuff is that it is applicable to one type of boat, but not all. We have a mix here of dinghy, keelboat, racing and cruising stuff, not all of it marked as such. If you are really going to help someone learn to sail, you have to explain all the rules, the exceptions, and the caveats, and end up with a book length article that is not at all what we need here.

Okay, sailing experts, let's pitch in and make this article right! While you are at it let's use some actual paper sources. I don't know, Chapman, Royce's, Greg Fisher, whatever. I am tired of looking at Wikipedia articles that cite nothing but web pages. Mrees1997 23:42, 22 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I just took it upon myself, after more than one year of "let's pitch in" request, and removed the how-to content. bearing in mind the "be bold" philosophy. Mu5ti 09:19, 12 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I like the sort of stuff most folk might consider "how-to". Please don't cut out too much. Wikibooks and Wiktionary might never live up to expectations, but Wikipedia is coming along nicely, so let's let it incorporate more information, and not worry about running out of space. Keep "encyclopedic" in mind, and consider how much "how-to" matter occurs in the best encyclopedias. Divulging and discovering how to do things are worthy goals.
 * Know what I hate? Trade secrets! The idea that a fat cat can get fatter by insisting on keeping a secret from the rest of the world, and that his desire for wealth ought to impose a restriction on others' freedom of speech. I say blow the secret! A blown secret is no secret at all.
 * Similarly the notion that free Internet access ought to be abolished because it "deprives" people who want to make money from a chance to get rich. What kind of nonsense is that?Unfree (talk) 08:36, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

This is really more than one article
If it's divided up, it will free up the sub-pages from having to stay too general to be useful

I suggestion the following hierarchy:

Sailing - general description of what it is (this is an encyclopedia, people, there needs to be something for the 8 year-old from Tibet who's never seen a body of that he can't see across), history, and general description of the sub articles.


 * History - more in depth
 * Sailing boats, ships and vessels - briefly describe the different types and their use - monohull v cat; ship v boat v dingy; square v marconi; specific types: Chinese Junk to Spanish Galleon to modern single handed dingy - sub-links where people feel inclined.
 * Physics of sailing - give a basic description, and then all you gear-heads can go nuts - and have the debate about "airfoil is understandable" v "rotational is correct", etc
 * Techniques of sailing - I think this should be separate from Physics - more of a how to, with a WHOLE LOT of cross linking between the two. Boat handling only - no racing.
 * Cruising and day-sailing
 * Navigation
 * Racing - and again, general description and then go nuts - rules, courses, strategy tactics etc.

--Maczenwes 16:52, 3 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Please be mindful in any reorganization of the issue that all articles in Wikipedia should be accessible to the masses. Wikipedia is an encylopedia and not a technical manual.  Or at least the overview of all articles should be written in plain and not technical English.  Where technical terms are unavoidable, they should be briefly explained and linked. --- Safemariner 15:29, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

Excellent suggestion, except I don't understand what is meant by navigation: is this specific to sailboat sailing, or general marine sailing?


 * Navigation refers to the science of determining one's position and the most appropriate course to reach one's destination given the weather (wind, storms, tides, and currents) and the bottom topography (shoals, reefs, land masses). Methods include TLAR (that looks about right, also called "head thataway"), celestial, dead reckoning, and guided/piloted (a local area expert guides your vessel, usually into/out of a harbor). The term applies to all forms of transportation via air, land, sea, and space.  - Mugs 15:24, 6 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I have a feeling that your definition is too narrow, in that "navigation" ought to refer to manipulating a boat in general (probably derived from an ancient word for boat), so no determination of position, destination, or conditions is necessary, nor is science. While your definition offers much to discuss, it fails to cover the breadth of application of the word.  One can navigate a lock on a canal without learning any science; all you need is a boat. Unfree (talk) 08:57, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

How about these as article names? — EncMstr 02:33, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Sailing
 * Sailing history
 * Sailing vessel types
 * Sailing physics
 * Sailing techniques
 * Sailing lifestyle (not so sure this is the right title)
 * Sail racing

Sailing-related articles (March 2007)
Be alert to the fact that we have many of these articles in Wikipedia already, some under different names. We also have various sailing-related articles that don't quite match anything on this list. There are considerable redundancies. Search for "sail" and see what you get. For example, there already exists


 * Age of Sail
 * Sailing vessel (disambigulation, although I think it should be a redirect)
 * Sailing ship
 * Sailboat
 * Sailboat design and manufacturing (oddball jumble)
 * Dinghy sailing
 * Canoe sailing
 * Dinghy racing
 * Yachting
 * Blue water sailing (stub)
 * Cruising (maritime)
 * Day sailer
 * Single-handed sailing
 * Yacht racing
 * Glossary of nautical terms
 * Points of sail
 * True Sailing Wind (probably should be merged with something)
 * Sail-plan
 * Sail (with a section on Sail aerodynamics)
 * Sail training
 * Parts of a sail
 * Navigation (which as you pointed out is not really unique to sailing)

So, my point is that we should break up the Sailing article into several smaller articles as you two suggest, making use of the existing articles as we can. EncMstr's list of categories looks about right. Delete, merge, and redirect, until the whole sailing thing on Wikipedia makes sense. Sounds like fun. Not quite as much fun as actually sailing, but fun. Mrees1997 23:56, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Spot on both of you. I see the page entitled "Sailing" as a directory and an organization of all of the resouces underneath and don't re-write anything if you don't have to. That would include moving some of this content to other existing pages were appropriate.

Two quick thoughts: I do mean general marine navigation (from the non-commercial perspective). Applies equally well to power boating (with the exeption of VMG not being as important to power boating). Its still a critical part of sailing and I think links should be included.

On "Sailing Lifestyle": in the US, I would lump daysailing, cruising, bare-boating and live-abords all into "Cruising". "Sailing - Cruising and Life" might not be terrible either. I would stick to general knowledge, however.

Anyone objecting, please speak up!!!

What now? Start collecting and contacting the discussion boards for the underlying pages?

Maczenwes 17:55, 6 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I hope, Mrees1997 won't mind me changing his list, and think that some of that cleanup will be easier done than some other ;). I will turn back to discussion after making up my mind, especially on actual redundances quoted below.
 * PS: disagree with Mrees1997 on "Sailing vessel" for as long as those pointer-articles exist (which may be for quite a long time, I think) any IP. 08:22, 24 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I think most of these should be merged, there are way too many loose strings everywhere, and a lot of it is not encyclopedic information. I work in the yachting biz...motor and sail, large and small, the only part I not about is the racing...--Tallard 12:54, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Fastest Point of Sail?
um... In Points of Sail on the wiki, way wrong... a beam reach is NOT and NEVER the fastest tack... The fastest point of sail must be either the close haul or the broad reach... lots of disagreement about this, but my money's on the close haul being a bit faster than the broad reach

Its wrong to say one particular direction is fastest, reach, broad reach, close hauled etc., as there are both vessel and enviromental factors to take into account - the most obvious being sea state, Close hauled might be fastest for a particular yacht (definitly not a Cat!)in smooth conditions, but under rough conditions watch the yacht slow down as it slams against the oncomng waves.

Be nice to have good definitions technical terms such as VMG and how they are calculated (formula)

Cheers

---

Hello there, 65.11.222.234, you are right that it is "way wrong," but I disagree as to the root of the wrongness. What kind of boat do you sail? Is it a slippery hull with a high aspect ratio modern rig or a heavy old gaffer with a sail like a barn door? Spinnaker up or down? Displacement or planing mode?

A quick search on Google finds this example of a [http://www.hallberg-rassy.com/hr39/speed_diagram_HR39.gif polar diagram for a Hallberg-Rassy cruiser. Notice that in 20 knots, the fastest point of sail without the spinnaker is a beam reach. But, I say, so what?

Give me a beer and I could talk about this all night. We could talk about polars, foils, apparent wind, VMG, race tactics, multihulls, ooching, rocking, and what it's like to sail a Flying Scot in 30 knots at Hood River. And this points out exactly what is way wrong with Sailing.

You are right that the points of sail section is "way WRONG". It is way wrong to make conclusary statements about intermediate or advanced concepts in sailing. We need to purge the article of all the How-to and physics of anything and make it a very basic introduction to sailing for the complete non-sailor. Take a look at the comments above. I hope you get a Wikipedia account and start hacking away at this article. Mrees1997 17:44, 21 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Couple of points: First, for the Hallberg-Rassy cruiser it's the broad reach with the spinnaker, not the beam reach.  Second, the fastest point of a sail depends on many factors particular to the vessel itself, as well as the sea state and velocity of the wind.  Third, encyclopedias aren't written exclusively to the complete non-experts, but rather, include a range of detail appropriate for both the uninitiated as well as those who're familiar with the topic.  The ONLY reason that paper encyclopedias severely limited content was because they needed to cover a broad variety of topics but were heavily limited by the significant cost of printing against what the market was willing to pay for the volumes.  The volume of content for electronic encyclopedias is vastly different, as they're edited by volunteers, and storage and distribution costs plummet.  I'm not sure what Wiki's budget is, but I dare say I could conduct the entire operation from my home for an initial investment of around $2,000 and a web server fee of less than $1000 a month.  Ads would probably pay for well over 100% of this.


 * My point is that there's absolutely no reason to decry technical detail. Furthermore, this is a wonderful opportunity to consolidate the vast wealth of knowledge possessed by millions of individuals into a detailed reference that can be accessed by anyone.  The only caveat is to format the articles so that they peel back the layers of the onion in order, providing summary content at the top of the article, then diving into deeper detail on the various issues throughout the article.  Naturally, duplicate material with other articles should be avoided.  Personally, I'd like to see all articles on anything having to do with sailing lumped into one large entry, with appropriately formatted subsections referenced (linked) beneath.  This would cover everything from types of vessels to sails, navigation, point of sail, etc., in one article.  Yes, it would be long!  However, it would also be complete, and would prevent the user from needlessly searching (and often not finding) additional information elsewhere.  - Mugs 16:01, 6 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I think the peeling-the-onion idea is right. I don't like long articles, however. I prefer short ones with lots of links. If the linked sub-articles are organized in a rational way, it should not be a problem to find the information you are looking for. If you have to do a word or phrase search, you can do a Google search of Wikipedia with not much more trouble than doing a "Find on this Page" search. Mrees1997 04:33, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

I put a How-to revision notice at the top
To alert other wikipedians to our efforts. People keep catching things that are wrong or incomplete, assuming that we really want a complete sailing how-to. Myself and the commentators above are trying to head the article in a different direction. Please read the last few discussion sections and give us your thoughts! I want to prune this article, but not in a way that will befuddle those who wonder why stuff is disappearing. Mrees1997 17:35, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Points of Sail
Much of the information was inaccurate in the points of sail section, and the grammer was bad, so I have re-arranged/re-written it. I am an avid sailor and sail several times a week, and much of this page seems to be inaccurate (though large parts of it are very good). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.9.85.234 (talk) 01:15, 28 December 2006 (UTC).

Welcome, 84.9.85.234. Consider getting an actual account. Then, use the four tildas to sign your name with a time stamp. Take a minute to read the comments at Talk:Sailing#Re-write effort -- non how-to et seq. See if you can help us strip out the how-to material, link to more detailed articles, and make Sailing a more encyclopedic article. I agree that much of the page is innaccurate, but I think the cure is the trim out the too-detailed sections that lend them selves to wanton innaccuracy. Mrees1997 07:18, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Redundant stuff
Sailing has two independent sections on rules of the road, Sailing and Sailing. It also has two independent discussions of "points of sail," being the long explanations of Sailing, Sailing, and Sailing, plus a shorter discussion at Sailing, both of which can be replaced with a short paragraph and a link to Points_of_sail. We need to (again) trim out the stuff at Sailing that is redundant with Man overboard. Sailing is redundant with Glossary of nautical terms. Let's hope people read this discussion page before complaining about stuff being deleted. Mrees1997 19:19, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Sailing Userbox
Here's a user box that you can use. Just copy this piece of code on your user page: User Sailing This will produce this: Cheers! Bu b0y2007 09:47, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Sailing Photography
Hello all:

Just wanted to throw my hat in if you need any help. I am the Executive Editor for Inside Yachting a yachting publication as well as handling publicity for a number of yachting events.

Also, I am a photographer with many photos of yacht racing. If you would like to illustrate anything in the sailing topic arena, please let me know and I would be happy to provide photographs. You can see some examples of my work at my websites:

http://www.blastreach.com http://www.insideyachting.com (in the gallery section)

Sean Downey

Blastreach 00:10, 1 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Hello Sean: Photos and illustrations would best go to http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Sailing where they can be used in any article.

--Theosch (talk) 09:37, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Beyond the Bernoulli effect
I must say the sailing page is getting more verbose and less organized every time I look at it. I don't want to whine too much, because I'll admit I have not done my part to fix it. The sad fact is that I have been sailing 2-3 times a week and that just saps all my time and energy for writing about sailing. We keep getting well-intentioned little edits here and there, but without a complete rewrite and reorganization this article will get keep getting sloppier. Mrees1997 23:44, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Yachtmaster qualifications
Don't see anything in here yet about various sailing qualifications/ validations from different National bodies, ie inshore, offshore, cruising, crew, skipper, yachtmasters, is it relevant here? Also don't see anything on helming skills, using waves upwind, surfing downwind and so on, maybe this is more relevant to Racing? Jagra 06:20, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Thoughts about a Project
I've noticed that there are a large group of nautical/boating articles and needed articles out there that don't fall neatly into WikiProject Ships or WikiProject Maritime Trades, like for example - this one. Others would include anything dealing with recreational small craft of all kinds, authors such as Patrick O'Brian and C._S._Forester, famous yacht designers like Nathanael_Herreshoff and designer/historian Howard Chapelle. The only project that clearly covers these is far to large, WikiProject Transport. I suggest there is need for a project between Transport and Ships, more of a companion project to the Nautical Portal. If there is any interest or comments from here, please post at Portal_talk:Nautical.--Doug.(talk • contribs) 21:19, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Club Med 2 picture and caption
Okay. Here's the story... Someone put up a post at blogspot about how the Club Med 2 is an offense to sailing. Someone else took it upon themselves to edit the caption and add a link to the blog post. I removed the picture and the caption thinking that was the easiest thing to do. Not good enough, evidently. The image and link are reposted with slightly different caption. I just removed the link. I think the blog post easily falls under WP:EL's description of "links to be avoided" for a variety of reasons. To cite one in particular: "Links to blogs and personal web pages, except those written by a recognized authority." -- Ben 14:23, 13 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I removed a photo and blurb about Club Med 2 just now- it was a pretty photo, I guess, but quite advertorial in nature and not really sailing-related (the copy even admitted it wasn't a "true sailing vessel"). --Treekids (talk) 02:03, 24 January 2008 (UTC)


 * This is what I removed. Their marketing dept. is obviously to get a bit more clever. --Treekids (talk) 02:07, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

This article just keeps getting longer.
Every time I look at this article, it gets longer. Eventually it will be like "Royces Sailing Illustrated", that wacky old jumble of yachting lore. If I break my leg and have to spend a few weeks sitting indoors, I will re-write this thing.

My diagnosis is that there is so much arcane sailing lore that whenever somebody reads the article, they think, "Oh, yeah, let's put in an explanation of a taffrail here," and they type 500 words, disregarding the fact that there is a big Glossary of nautical terms elsewhere.

Sailing lore is insufficiently self-limiting or self-organizing. When a bunch of people start writing about sailing, you get a huge disorganized jumble of stuff, some of it fun, but you don't get an encyclopedia article.

This phenomenon has to do with the nature of sailing. It is very complex and it attracts smart, creative people. Take a look at Personal water craft. There's a short, simple article. Look at Motorboat. Hmmm.

We still need to 1. cut out the how-to, 2. pare down the detail in all sections, 3. link to various subtopics that already exist in separate articles (instead of redundantly including the whole subject in this mega-article), and 4. clean up the prose.

The result should be an article about one-quarter as long. (good luck!)

Mrees1997 (talk) 19:54, 15 February 2008 (UTC)


 * It gets longer because someone thinks taffrail should be explained somewhere and there is no link to Glossary of nautical terms . There is considerable precedent for quality print encyclopedias having a "brief intro" document with references to a "more detailed" companion volume.  It seems like the natural long-term structure for articles that "keep getting longer" is to have a short, simple article, with a reference to various other articles and a longer, more detailed work.  It appears that in the Wiki context, the longer work is naturally a Wikibook.


 * What isn't clear is how to make that transition. I'm tempted to take the entire article over to Wikibooks as a new book and make the linkage.  The drawbacks are that it makes for a short "book" and leaves the article still in need of serious trimming.  Does leaving the content in that state offend people's sensibilities?  I love Wikipedia and want to help in my small way, but am looking for guidance by those more deeply engaged than I. 216.31.225.194 (talk) 22:33, 24 October 2008 (UTC)


 * A funny cartoon in one edition of the venerable Royce's Sailing Illustrated depicts a fellow all bandaged-up and laying in a hospital bed in traction with the caption reading something like: "And it started with a friendly discussion about sailing..." In my copy of the 1989 revision, he began his introduction page with a similar message: "Welcome to the sport of sailing - where scientific technologies and art overlap in varying degrees."
 * I believe the biggest problem with this article comes from simplistic, definite pronouncements being made about a complex, nuanced, subject - whether or not citations may be provided. Words and phrases such as "often," "typically," "in most cases," and the like need to be employed to serve the often competing interests of brevity and accuracy.
 * Detail and depth may indeed tend impart the functionality - if not the style - of a "how-to" to this article. So be it. Iamknowledgeable (talk) 23:24, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

Userboxes
A number of Userboxes have been created for those interested in sailing. Simply copy the code from the Edit page and post to your Edit page. These link to this Article, and clicking on the logo will enlarge the Image. Jagra (talk) 06:39, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

sail plan
The statement "The combined efficiency of this sail plan is greater than the sum of each sail used in isolation." is either inaccurate or true only in a qualified sense not indicated. If it were true in a general sense, iceboats (which have very high lift to drag ratios) wouldn't have cat rigs.

It is true in the sense that a sloop rig is a way to get adequate sail area without overly increasing weight aloft excessively, but that isn't clear from the context. To make it clear to the non-expert reader would expand the scope of an already longish article, so I'd be inclined to delete it, rather than befuddle by overexplaining. 216.31.225.194 (talk) 21:50, 24 October 2008 (UTC)


 * The article explains (and did explain a year ago when comment was made) that the advantage is, in part, smoothing the laminar flow. This seems correct. But isn't the broader point of the original statement that the wind resistance of two objects that are close together can be greater than the resistance of two objects in isolation? At any rate, the specialized case of a particular sail on a particular type of boat would not preclude the statement being correct for other situations? Regards, Alpha Ralpha Boulevard (talk) 14:08, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Heeling
While disambiguating Heeling, I expanded Heeling (sailing). It might be good to move part or all of Sailing to that article. --Una Smith (talk) 19:59, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

What is the relationship between listing and heeling? They seem to describe similar effects. Should these articles/sections mention, or link to, one another? --Subversive Sound (talk) 22:14, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Listing is caused by off-centre weight, either of cargo, people or water aboard. Heeling is caused by wind pressure in the sails. Heeling 20 degrees because you sailing is no problem; listing 20 degrees when you're not sailing is a problem that needs fixing quickly. A heeling sail boat will come up level if you drop the sails, or adjust them or the course, to relieve the pressure; if it does not, you've got a big problem. Some racing sail boats use shifting ballast (swing keels, crew sitting on the rail or out on trapezes, floodable tanks etc) to induce a list that (partially) cancels the heeling in order to carry more sail and so go faster. This has to be neutralised when it is no longer required to prevent it turning into unhelpful listing after the next manoeuvre. I dunno what you want to do with that in the articles, but that's what it's about. --Nigelj (talk) 22:36, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

Yamaha 36
The Yamaha 36 was an offshore racing yacht designed to compete in the Melbourne - Osaka sailing race in the early 80's. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sloop Rigged (talk • contribs) 20:49, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

External links, 2009
This link has been added and deleted repeatedly: It appears to be an informative, non-commercial site that could benefit readers. On the other hand, this site: Appears to be a commercial site covering the same topic as the link above. I think we should keep the first one and delete the second. Any other thoughts?  Will Beback   talk    19:37, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * http://marinaaquaticcenter.org/SailingClasses/manual.htm Learn to Sail Manual
 * http://www.startedsailing.com/ Learn How To Sail

I have read the UCLA link and it seems to be just a large advertisement for UCLA. The other site you mention is commercialised, but does contain useful info with no bias to any company or institution. By going for the UCLA link we are aligning ourselves with an institution rather than maintaining an objective view. So even though the second sites has got advertisements (as most good sites do have to stay alive), I prefer it. Anyother comments? TheSailMaster (talk) 17:10, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
 * The main content on the UCLA site are the PDF sailing manuals, which hardly mention UCLA. I don't think that UCLA has a special bias regarding sailing, and whoever owns startedsailing.com is also some form of institution, one devoted to making money off of web visitors. Further I now see that someone, possibly the webmaster, has been adding links to the commercial site using deceptive edit summaries: . That settles it for me - I'm going to remove all links to this site.   Will Beback    talk    19:38, 28 June 2009 (UTC)


 * The external link to marinaaquaticcenter.org shouldn't be in Wikipedia. 1) If the PDFs are useful, they should be linked directly. External links to sites with other links are not WP:NOT. 2) I couldn't open the PDFs; while I can open other PDFs. 3) If there is valuable content in the PDFs, there should be an attempt to add it to the Wikipedia article, i.e. they should have "information that could not be added to the article" WP:EL, 4) The editor who added the link, Vmikulich has been editing in Wikipedia for years, yet has no edits that do not relate to the UCLA Marina. He may have a WP:CONFLICT. Alpha Ralpha Boulevard (talk) 13:51, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Heeling touch
There are ships without sails that tilt so can heeling be made an article in its own right (or moved under general boating) so it can be wikified all over the place? Hcobb (talk) 21:06, 8 August 2009 (UTC)


 * When considering a new article, some factors are: 1) Is the existing Wiki article on the basic, essentials too long? (In this case, it isn't, but it should be. This article needs much basic, additional material.) 2) Would the new material stand up on its own as a good, new article (i.e., not a stub with less than 100 words)? 3) Does the material to be added represent a special case that might confuse the central article topic. (Ships with sails that do not tilt...are unusual?)


 * If you have a couple reliable references, go for the new article, linking it to this one. If you find that the new article would repeat 90% of what's written in this article, it would be a good reason to include the material here -- or perhaps omit it from Wikipedia entirely. Regards, Alpha Ralpha Boulevard (talk) 13:35, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Added new section
==Licensing== Depending on the country or continental union, boating on coastal waters and inland waters may require a license. Usually, boating on coastal waters almost always requires a license, while boating on coastal waters only requires a license when a certain boat size is exceeded (eg a length of 20 meters), or when passenger ships, ferries or tugboats are steered. Boating on international waters does not require any license, due to the absence of any laws or restrictions in this area. Europe's continental union, the EU, issues the International Certificate of Competence.

Add references, ... Also, can the definition be changed to mention that sailing is a type of boating where sails are the main source of thrust used to propel the boat ?

Would place the article allot better in perspective —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.66.60.118 (talk) 08:44, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Commented-out safety section
I just found the following whole section in the article, commented out with the remark that it was a 'how-to'. Obviously safety under sail is an important aspect of sailing and this is the 'sailing' article...

I wonder if, with a bit of work, we could change the tone of voice of this material, find some refs and reinstate it? Maybe it would make the article too long and would be better moved to a child-article after that work? Maybe such an article already exists and I just don't know about it. (please put me right if so). --Nigelj (talk) 15:52, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Here it is:

&lt;Start of commented-out material>

Sailing safety
First and foremost: Sailing requires respect for the risks of being on the water. All sailors therefore should be sensibly prepared. Most jurisdictions have certain minimum regulations that must be met as to equipment. When engaged in publicly organized activities they may be required to take additional precautions, as detailed by the authority which regulates the training or racing.
 * 1) Stay on the boat
 * 2) Wear a personal floatation device
 * 3) Learn to swim
 * 4) Learn how to recover someone who has fallen overboard
 * 5) Respect other seamen and the rules of sailing

Safety measures may include:
 * Appropriate floatation aids, including life preservers
 * Provision of a safety boat for rescue purposes
 * Appropriate first-aid and firefighting equipment
 * Carry a knife suitable for cutting rigging or netting in an emergency
 * Install jacklines and have the crew wear harnesses connected to them, to secure the crew to the vessel.
 * Ensure visibility, use the required running lights and mount at least one radar reflector.

Man overboard
Aside from what may be required by law or a sailing organization, real safety on the water comes from an informed awareness of risks involved and the exercise of reasonable steps to avoid dangers. A Man overboard situation is likely to be life threatening for any of several related reasons since the most likely cause is rough waters and weather conditions. These degrade the ability to maneuver easily, result in vastly different rates of drift caused by both wind and current to the boat and the unwilling swimmer, and in rough weather the reduced visibility makes fast and sure immediate action to be paramount as it is easy to lose sight of the swimming person. In some waters, including inland Lakes, hypothermia can be a major threat to life, so quick recovery of unwilling swimmers can be life-saving. This requires practice and situational awareness. The guiding principle is to stop the boat (or slow it, if stopping is impossible) and immediately marking the location by tossing a PFD (personal floatation device) or Man Overboard Pole into the water. To achieve this, the helmsman releases the tiller and dumps (releases) the mainsheet. A better approach is to heaving to. To do this, the helmsman pushes the tiller to leeward (away from the wind) and loosens the mainsheet, ignoring the jib sheets. (Spinnaker guy also dumped if applicable). The sailing boat will tend to come up to weather and the jib will back. When this backing happens, the tiller must be reversed to point towards the boom. - At this stage, the mainsail is loose and flapping and the jib is backed (or spinnaker floging). The yacht is now nearly stopped close to the location of the man overboard. Correctly executed, this maneuver can be completed in a few seconds. (A wheel steered boat would move the wheel to bring the yacht towards the wind and when the jib backs he reverses the wheel rotation promptly, while also dumping the mainsheet).

This should be an instinctive reaction of all helmsmen. It works on all points of sailing. At that stage the helmsman can accomplish the launching of a LifeSling, unless another crew member has previously done so. With a bit of luck, the yacht will be within the range of the cordage on the recovery apparatus.

&lt;End of commented-out material>
 * You're right, the material is not ok, according to WP:NOT


 * I was considering whether an exception should be made for at least some material that has a long-established historical precedence, but decided nothing could be saved. (The argument was something like "This isn't one of those "The best way to tell if a cake is baked" descriptions, it follows standard seamanship texts, blah, blah, blah. But it's really no different. E.g. "First and foremost: Stay on the boat", there are special situations where this rote classroom advice is completely wrong. Such as when a submarine is trying to sink your boat, lol.) Regards, Alpha Ralpha Boulevard (talk) 03:02, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Article changes
At the sailing techniques, perhaps jibing and tacking can be mentioned. This are very important topics as most of the times, a boat needs to jibe or tack to get to a destination. Perhaps the images: can be added in this article, or another article can be made at wikipedia explaining this tacking/jibing. Also, images need to be CGI'd I thought about adding them to the gibing / tacking (sailing) article, but actually the images are best used in an article describing the whole of the sailing technique.

At the tpes of sails and configurations; aren't rotor ships also a type of sailboat; they use rotors instead of sails, but are actually also a "sailing boat" as they need to plot their coarse based on the wind angle, like sailboats. If so, could be useful to mention them here.