Talk:Saint John's Seminary (Massachusetts)

Article Development
I am working to develop this article and improve it. Much more info and polishing is need. Feel free to join in. Frostandchill (talk) 18:09, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your contributions.  Please be careful to avoid adding material of a merely promotional nature, or "newsy" trivia not important enough to be suitable for an encyclopedia. WP:NPOV  --Chonak (talk) 23:47, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Also, please use independent published third-party sources as much as possible, rather than relying heavily on the school's own publications. -- Chonak (talk) 23:49, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks Frostandchill (talk) 23:52, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
 * This site is a work in progress.... I've done a lot of updating today and it's a big improvement from what it was just yesterday. Frostandchill (talk) 23:53, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm not convinced of that.   Most of the new material is fluff copied from the SJS website, not simple factual material documented from an independent source.   Also, cutting out the photo "Gallery" is not obviously an improvement.   --Chonak (talk) 00:02, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Let me drop my objection about the Gallery, since you've preserved the photos. Thank you. --Chonak (talk) 00:05, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, content still needs to be improved I agree. This will take time. Frostandchill (talk) 00:12, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

Notable faculty, rectors, alumni
Chonak, I don't know why you deleted some of the notable persons. You called them "non-notables" in your edit. Do you have a clue about theologians? Rev. Romanus Cessario, O.P. is a world renown theologian, an author of several books, the senior editor of Magnificat, and much more. His curriculum vitae is 31 pages. Additionally, why did you delete Dr. Philip Crotty? He is certainly notable, just look at his curriculum vitae. Furthermore, Rev. Daniel P. Moloney deserves to be listed as a notable alumnus. Prior to seminary, he graduated from Yale, Notre Dame and Santa Croce (Rome); he taught at Notre Dame and Princeton. He was an editor at First Things. Worked for the Heritage Foundation. He has written for many publications including the Wall Street Journal and the National Review. Chonak, do your research before you delete people calling them "non-notables" while they are certainly notable within their fields. Maybe you don't know of them, but people around the world do, including bishops and cardinals, and their work is very much recognized and notable. Frostandchill (talk) 05:54, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your note, Frostandchill.  Although the persons named have achieved a certain level of accomplishment in their fields, Wikipedia's concept of WP:Notability is a little different from the concept of professional reputation and achievement.  It requires that the person himself be the subject of coverage in third-party publications.  I expect this is probably true of some of the persons mentioned, but perhaps not all.   I think the list of "notable visitors" is really not worth adding: one-time visits by distinguished scholars and bishops are a good thing, but they don't tell us anything substantial about SJS itself, so they are not very important for the article.
 * Chonak, You need to understand that visitations by bishops and scholars to the seminary are not made based upon whims. These visitations are major events usually and often coincide with internationally recognized conferences such as the Celibacy conference at SJS last September 2009.  So they are substantial and if elaborated provided vital information about SJS and its current status.  Also, you refer to WP:Notability, but you also haphazardly deleted clearly notable persons that fit the standards of this site.  The wikipedia standards you refer to give no specific indication for deleting these notable theologians, faculty, and alumni.  In my humble opinion, I don't think you really know too much about St. John's Seminary besides what appears in publications owned by the New York Times which really don't give the best, most accurate, or up to date accounts about this seminary.  Frostandchill (talk) 07:13, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Rather than disputing about a past edit, let me encourage you to make contributions. The article is far from complete and material from additional published independent sources would be of value.  Although I found fault with some of the material you added, I assume good faith with regard to your efforts.  Best wishes. --Chonak (talk) 17:33, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
 * One needs to think of this as an encyclopedia article, and understand what a reader looks for in an encyclopedia article: established facts of importance; nothing of a transitory or news-oriented nature; nothing promotional; no unattributed statements of opinion (even favorable). Some more basic sections of the article need work. The history needs to be expanded, including a description of the campus' changing extent over time.   The turbulent 1960s and 1970s should be addressed.  A list of the seminary's rectors should be included.  A list of notable alumni (and there are probably many) is a good idea.  --Chonak (talk) 19:58, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Romanus Cessario meets the specific criteria for notability for academics (WP:PROF), so I've added him to the list. --Chonak (talk) 01:26, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

Major Seminary
Major Seminary does not simply mean "graduate-level". There is a careful distinction between a graduate school and a major seminary. Major seminary means that it is a seminary which prepares specifically for priestly ordination. Diaconal and then Priestly ordination is the terminus, the end goal of the major seminary, not simply a Master's degree. There are more dimensions to a major seminary than just offering graduate-level courses. Please see the St. John's mission website for further elaboration. Frostandchill (talk) 07:03, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, that could be improved. I'll revise. --Chonak (talk) 04:53, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Material to explore
I'll add items of potential interest here: --Chonak (talk) 22:58, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
 * 1966 student protest, documented in a Times article and this Time article. More in this profile of Bp. Lennon.
 * 1898 description of the seminary, in American Ecclesiastical Review
 * A fairly unimportant item: Cdl. O'Connell's grave has to be moved as a condition of the land sale to BC
 * A review of Boston sex-abuse cases found most priests involved studied at SJS in the 1950s, 1960s: Herald article
 * Good work with the edits Frostandchill (talk) 05:36, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

accidentally clicked vandalism button
I accidentally clicked vandalism button. sorry. Frostandchill (talk) 06:58, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

Faculty listing needs clarification
Some of the faculty who are not SJS alumni are listed with notations of certain years: e.g, '00, '98, '11, etc. Can this be clarified? (Compare with the listing on the SJS website .) Bistropha (talk) 06:38, 28 June 2016 (UTC)

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