Talk:Sakai clan

The father of Sakai Hōitsu?
The following citation is based on the work of a reliable SOAS scholar:
 * Sakai Hōitsu (1761-, also known as Sakai Tadamo a well-regraded contemporary painter in this period, was the second son of Sakai Tadayuki.<:ref>Screech, Timon. (2006). Secret Memoirs of the Shoguns: Isaac Titsingh and Japan, 1779-1822, p. 241 n58.

However, Papinot's Tadayuki (1770-1828) has the wrong dates to be Hōitsu's father. Also, according to Papinot, Tadayuki comes from a branch of the Sakai with no ties to Harima province.

Another web source explains that Hōitsu was the second son of Sakai Tadamochi (1735–67), lord of Harima.<:ref>ArtFact, Sakai Hōitsu bio The dates are plausible; however, according to Papinot, Tadamochi comes from a branch of the Sakai with no ties to Harima.

Other sources -- including the Wikipedia article on this artist -- state clearly that the daimyō of of Harima Province was the father of Hōitsu.

Papinot explains that descendants of Sakai Masachika's eldest son, Sakai Shigetada, ultimately become daimyō of Harima. The progeny of Sakai Tadakiyo (1626–1681) head the branch of the Sakai which was transferred in 1749 to Himeji in Harima province. The descendants of Tadakiyo continued to live in Harima up through the Meiji period when the Harima han was abolished.<:ref name="p50-51">Papinot, Jacques. (2003). Nobiliare du Japon -- Sakai, pp. 50-51; Papinot, Jacques Edmond Joseph. (1906). Dictionnaire d’histoire et de géographie du Japon. (in French/German).

My guess is that Hōitsu may be the son of Sakai Tadayuki ..., but without a specific citation to verify the fact, this remains too uncertain.

Of course, this is a minor point; but maybe I'm helping to move things along by posting the question here. --Tenmei (talk) 15:37, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Discrepancies amongst reference sources
Minor discrepancies amongst reference sources are sometimes easy to resolve, and sometimes not. The following are discrepancies which may deserve further research -- or maybe someting else:


 * 1. Sakai Tadakiyo's dates according to Papinot are 1626–1681, Sansom says 1624-1681?


 * 2. Sakai Tadaaki (1813-1873) is the name used by Papinot; Keene uses Sakai Tadayoshi ... or is it Sakai Tadatoshi?


 * 3. According to Papinot, a branch of the Makino were installed from 1647 through 1868 at Matsumine Domain (20,000 koku) in Dewa province; the castle at Matsumine was constructed in 1779. According to Appert, a cadet branch was created in 1647, and these Sakai were installed at Matsuyama Domain (25,000 koku) in Dewa province. ... at Matsumine?  ... at Matsuyama?

This list is likely to grow .... -- Tenmei (talk) 18:22, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Sakai clan branches
This section is really confusion. With the bullets and the "a, b, c, etc.," I can't understand it. The first paragraph ends talking about "the two principal branches," but then it lists about seven below. I want to help clean up the article, but it's hard to do when I don't understand what's written. Thanks. Douggers (talk) 09:03, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Hiroyuki Sakai
Is there a reliable source which can verify that Hiroyuki Sakai is considered a notable member of this clan? --Enkyo2 (talk) 16:21, 8 August 2013 (UTC)