Talk:Salaryman

General
As mentioned by many this article is clearly not rigorous and needs a lot of work--especially with contradictory information as stated by some. In particular highly contradictory information about the conditions under which a salaryman would or would not be fired and also throughout the whole article in regard to societal expectations regarding who should become a salaryman. It reads like word of mouth rather than an academic study. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.84.40.3 (talk) 04:17, 30 October 2016 (UTC)

Main photo
"Salarymen take their train daily to work in the Tokyo metropolitan area (Tokyo Station, 2005)"


 * I see women on there too and I doubt all the people are working for big companies. Some look like students. The caption should be rephrased. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.253.186.82 (talk) 17:26, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I agree. The article also describes salarymen as "expected to work long hours, to put in additional overtime, to participate in after-work leisure activities such as drinking, singing karaoke and visiting hostess bars with colleagues, and to value work over all else", but there's no way to tell if the people in the photo actually fit this description. They just look like they're commuting to work. (kriskhaira (talk) 02:12, 17 October 2023 (UTC))

Is the random sleeping guy really necessary?

 * I'm not sure what the image contributes to the article either. Apparently this picture is the source for the image. Perhaps someone could find a more fitting picture? --V2Blast (talk) 20:21, 16 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Actually, I thought it conveyed a lot of the meaning of "salaryman", especially as perceived by the public and mass media. So I'll be putting it back.  --C S (talk) 20:01, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Do you really mean it? How do you see a lot of the meanamig of "salaryman" by the photograph of a careless sleeping man? It's very interesting to me. Would you explain your opinion to me more specific.--ShoestringCatch (talk) 10:56, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Have you read the article? "...the term carries associations of long working hours, low prestige in the corporate hierarchy...the term may also be used to give a highly negative connotation...the word "businessman" is often used to avoid the negative image...The following are stereotypical images of the salaryman: Lifestyle revolves entirely around work at the office.  Works over-time on a daily basis..."  Picture of a suited up salaryman comatose on the train...yep.  I think that says more than all these words could ever do.  --C S (talk) 11:09, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I must remove your misunderstanding on "Salaryman". "Salaryman" is the middle class(or middle-lower class)of Japanese society. "Slaryman" is not the lower class. The lower class is "Freeter". "Salaryman" is the absolete majorty of Japanese worker. Negative image of the "Salaryman" is broken out in comparison with very rich people(or talented person). Say, surgeons, presidents, famaous artists. In Japan, the term"Salaryman" is hardly different from the term"Businessman". We call ourselves "Salaryman" in modestway. We call others "Businessman" in respect. Some people call themselves "Buisnessman". They are "Salaryman" who earn a lot of money. Average income of "Salaryman" is about fourty three thousands US dollars. Average Hours of work of "Salaryman" is more than the Germans, less than the Americans. --ShoestringCatch (talk) 13:17, 1 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I think you probably know those average work hours are wrong, since they only count official hours while in reality, Japanese work a lot of unpaid "unofficial" overtime and Americans don't generally. I know groups like freeters are lower, but you can hardly deny (and you don't) that salaryman has a negative image, and that is what that photo demonstrates.  --C S (talk) 01:13, 15 June 2009 (UTC)


 * There is a problem on this photo. I will explain why it is.
 * Maybe you take photos of Japanese people on the streets of Japan.Although many Japanese people dislike taken by photos by others, you can take pictures of them probably.They will allow foreign photographer probably.(I never guarantee your safety. Indivisuals hava its own customs.)
 * But You must not take photos of others in train.Train is one of the most sensitive room for manners in Japan.Using cellphone as voice call is not permited too.(E-mail is OK except near by seets for senior citizen.)If you take photos of others in tarain in Japan without permission, you are risking your safety. It's a dangerous.
 * The photographer who takes this image could be regarded criminal in Japan.
 * It is a criminal in Japan, indeed. He(She) could be under arrest as a criminal of attempted CHIKAN(ちかん). (see Frotteurism)
 * I am going to replace this dangerous photo with a less dangerous one.--ShoestringCatch (talk) 18:00, 1 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Japanese privacy laws really have no place here on English Wikipedia, and making legal threats (as you appear to be making against the photographer) is a blockable offense. In any case, this is not an important issue for me, while strangely, it seems to be for you, so I'll drop it.  --C S (talk) 01:13, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
 * The picture was taken in Japan by a person who was in Japan at that time. The man could file a lawsuit against the photographer. Also, it's a shame you defend privacy invasion and threat to block the user. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.253.186.82 (talk) 17:22, 27 August 2022 (UTC)

Contradictory statements
In the "history" section in the ultimate and penultimate paragraphs, contradictory statements are made as to the probability of salarymen being fired. This should be fixed but I am lacking the knowledge of Japanese culture to do so. 83.50.152.44 (talk) 14:30, 6 December 2015 (UTC)

Also, the intro section and the "History" section outright contradict in saying both that salarymen are typically hired upon college graduation and typically hired immediately after high school. Which is it? 2601:407:4180:40E9:F495:FFD5:CB1:EF23 (talk) 12:35, 7 May 2021 (UTC) 2warped@gmail.com

"Social image"
The references in the "Social image" section all refer to a book written about business in China, with no page numbers. Can someone check to see that it is in fact relevant to this article? 8bitW (talk) 16:08, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

No, it is not relevant. Removing. If somebody wants to try to write something on this topic, they might refer to Allison, Anne. 1994. Nightwork: Sexuality, Pleasure, and Corporate Masculinity in a Tokyo Hostess Club. Chicago: University of Chicago Press. (A source that Osburg uses when making some comparisons with Japan). 169.229.120.39 (talk) 23:26, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

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Grooupzak?
A recent edit added that a salaryman is "sometimes called a Grooupzak". A Google search for that word returns only this page. Is there any way to substantiate this? Modus Ponens (talk) 18:13, 4 February 2023 (UTC)


 * I've already reverted that edit as vandalism and warned the IP user earlier. For future reference, if you have a strong reason to believe an edit is an error or vandalism (especially unexplained edits by random IPs with no citations), you're encouraged to be bold and go ahead with editing it. PritongKandule -✉️📝 06:41, 5 February 2023 (UTC)

This article is a joke
Seriously, anyone who reads this has to know this is a farce. It is based off of biases, manga tropes, foreigners who don't understand Japanese culture and stereotypes.

Doctors are not salarymen Nor are judges Nor are athletes, actors, or teachers. 126.114.193.12 (talk) 12:38, 14 March 2024 (UTC)