Talk:Salsa (dance)/Archive 2

Problems with styles and negative comments
I have a lot of problems with this page, it used to be much better. The part about Colombian style is gone, which is a very distinctive style, widely danced, breaks on 3, circular, and noted for using syncopations (a little 2 step that shifts the basic by 2 beats) as a fundamental move. The list of influences at the beginning is also problematic. Salsa is an african music and dance, fundamentally, but not directly from africa. The common steps is hard to understand unless you dance salsa, and doesnt represent what is common to most dancers. The styles section is messy in other ways, spending a lot of time and a lot of headings on 1 vs 2. There are a lot of negative comments which really arent necessary, like how LA style is just hollywood flash (with an unattributed quote no less, very unprofessional). There are other aspects of salsa dancing that would be cool to put in this article: cities where salsa is really popular, dance etiquette, dress, competitions, performance, related styles (danced at salsa parties) like cha cha cha and merengue, closed versus open position, and even salsa in movies especially the most famous "salsa" from the 70s. Mjolsnes 17:38, 23 February 2007 (UTC)


 * i agree.....how could they take off the Colombian style... it is easily the most entertaining to watch and is very different from the others


 * I've tidied up some of the bias in LA and NYC sections. They sounded like they were written by a New Yorker who'd just split up with someone from LA!  I like the sound of sections on dress, attitude, etc; but wonder just how much of that stuff can be backed up by references!

---

This page certainly needs some work! I reinstated the description of the Venezuelan style which I found in the history. I attempted to tidy up some of the English, but it doesn't all make complete sense! This is definitely a work in progress requiring someone who both knows Venezuelan salsa and can explain it well:


 * Venezolana Style Salsa is the style danced in Venezuela and Dominicana.


 * This style is characterised by:


 * The basic step is the Cumbia step
 * It is danced On 2 (1+2+3+pause)
 * Style has expressed impulse
 * Movement as turns and all dance are carried out on a circular trajectory
 * Movements are sharp (in comparison with Salsa Casino)
 * There is tap with 1 and 5 steps
 * The majority of movements and turns are carried out by "scrolling", instead of step-by-step (unlike Salsa Casino)
 * The quantity of turns is far less than with Casino or LA styles
 * One challenge with this style is that if even one of partners does the slightest mistake at turn is very strongly noticeably

Djcunning (talk) 23:56, 21 August 2008 (UTC) ---

LA Style
I removed the following sentence: "A relatively new incarnation of Salsa, based on New York style, Cumbia style and West Coast Swing. It's the default style on the West Coast of North America and is widely danced in places without a traditional community above (especially Asia, Australia, and Europe)." As it was clearly biased commentary and made unsubstantiated claims. User:BenjieBanzai 03/17/2009 —Preceding undated comment added 18:58, 17 March 2009 (UTC).

I took the liberty of unlinking the name "Albert Torres", as it links to an entry on a Spanish cyclist, not the Salsa promoter. As of now there is no page for said Albert Torres. Here is a link to his website: http://www.atpevents.com/ Mwoida (talk) 18:37, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

Why is their commentary and/or editorializing in an Encylopedic article. Please expound on this or provide a reference. Otherwise, the paragraph regarding South American's and "Sabor" should be removed. User:BenjieBanzai 12/10/2010.

Basic movements
The Basic movements section should be revised to make clear that the different styles of salsa each have their own basic steps that aren't necessarily the same as the basic steps for other styles. For example, LA and NY styles both have similar, linear basic steps, but of course LA breaks on 1, NY breaks on 2, and in NY style the follower steps forward on the first 4 beats instead of the leader. As another example, Cali-style salsa must surely have a very different basic step than either LA and NY style. Rumba y Son (talk) 06:08, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

Linking to the Salsa Beat Machine
I've put a link to the Salsa Beat Machine more than 6 months ago, and I see it has recently been removed.

After talking with the editor who removed this link, I still see that the link is relevant and does not fall under the definition of spam, and I suggest that it be put back. I have received a lot of feedback from dancers who have discovered the Salsa Beat Machine thanks to Wikipedia, and I think there is a great value in putting it as a reference for salsa dancers who stumble upon this Wikipedia entry... Your comments in this matter will be appreciated, Thank you --Urishaked (talk) 22:24, 9 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Are there any objections that I put the link back? --Urishaked (talk) 17:30, 13 February 2010 (UTC)


 * I think it would be a good idea to include The Salsa Beat Machine as an external resource. You can learn about salsa music and the different instruments and all of that stuff. Plus, it's FREE, at least online.Rumba y Son --(talk) 06:15, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

New Edits
Introduction Re-orded information. added european to african--the closed hold is european, for example. "Typical" is a false cognate with "tipico" in spanish, where is the meaning is closer to "traditional". Listed are almost all the major sources of the dance, because they all have good articles, and that way the Puerto Rico feel left out--it's not just Cuban! Not even in Cuba!

I just have one question, didn't salsa originate in Puerto Rico? I'll change it when I find internet references... Anyone have any advice?

"The Salsa aesthetic is more flirtatious and sensuous than its ancestor, Cuban Son." --whoever wrote this has never danced son! It's not backed up by fact anyway. Here are all the major style of son: you decide if there is any flirtation and sensuality going on: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yA7TGnFrqo&feature=channel_page

I re-arranged the section so that the history section was at the top, like most articles. I removed most of the step information, it's way way too detailed, it's not necessary unless you are taking a class, and even then. . . There was also a request to consolidate this information; I'll move a few details to the styles sections. Also, the Venezuelan style section is copied from elsewhere and not cited. Plus it's confusing, and really it's the same thing as the colombian/cumbia style below it. and "even one of partners does the slightest mistake at turn is very strongly noticeably" is an odd opinion for an article, and totally untrue in my experience in dancing this style.

I've never heard or seen "Salsa Disco" and I can't find anything in a google search, and there are no references so I'm taking it out. The author might be thinking of Suelta, which now has it's own article.

Next I'm cleaning up the styles sections--they are very confusing right now. There are really only 5 widely danced styles (despite what you read elsewhere): cumbia-based styles, the pachanga/mambo/charleston style of Cali, Casino with a Cuban version and a miami version, west-coast swing based LA salsa, and mambo/son/bomba based salsa from NYC and Puerto Rico. Almost everyone fits into one of these categories. Finding references for all of this will be difficult, because sources frequently disagree! And many leave out colombian styles. And with a lot of people centered on the US there are still a lot of people who divide the styles in half: LA or NY.

It seems crazy at first but Colombia and Columbia are two different things, and pronounced differently. Check the link that went with it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Rumba#Rumba_Columbia

Colombia is the country. Columbia is a type of afro-cuban Rumba, where men have hip-hop style dance battles (except that it's much older than hip-hop of course).

I took out the shines section about the the term. I can't confirm it, and it's been without a reference for a long time.

The biggest change I've been making is to take out all dancer-jargon (or else put it in parenthesis, like "on 1"). For this reason I've taken out long discussions about on1 or on2 which, honestly is a recent obsession in North America which shouldn't overwhelm everybody else. I also took out the details about turns which are only useful if you are trying to learn salsa--they belong in wikibooks. I'm trying to make this a useful resource for both dancers and non-dancers, making sure not to bore them with details that most people will either already know or not care to know.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by No-juegue-con-el-diablo (talk • contribs) 20:24, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

"I just have one question, didn't salsa originate in Puerto Rico? I'll change it when I find internet references... Anyone have any advice?"
 * Are you talking about the music? What I've been reading and what people have told me, is that, in general, salsa music has mostly Afro-Cuban origins (BIG emphasis on the African), but it was played and popularized by Puerto Rican musicians in New York city.  So where does salsa (music) come from?  Well, it sort of comes from everywhere, it's a fusion of so many different cultures and places and people.  It's not just Cuban nor is it only Puerto Rican, but in fact it incorporates elements of both of these as well as other cultures.  Also, nowadays, salsa music comes from so many different places in the world, there are the Latin American countries of course, but then there's even a Scottish salsa band (don't remember their name)!


 * Now, if you're talking about the dance, you have to frame the discussion around what style of salsa. Obviously, each style comes from different places and was influenced by different things, e.g. LA, New York, Cuban, Cali style, etc. Rumba y Son (talk) 05:16, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

Shines
If you go back to some of the very earliest revisions of this article, you'll see that there was a Shines section, but it no longer exists in the most recent versions. I think it would be good to put that section back in, at least for the LA and NY styles of salsa, and maybe to all styles generally. It would be nice to describe what shines are, and possibly some of the folkloric/anecdotal origins of the term, like "it's your time to shine", or that it's a term borrowed from jazz or swing dancers, or whatever. Rumba y Son (talk) 05:56, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

Corrections to "Steps that influenced salsa"
in the paragraph that started with
 * "History
 * Salsa music is a fusion of traditional African and Cuban and other Latin-American rhythms ..."

Corrections:


 * Lucumi (i erased it, lucumis where a tribe from Africa, not a dance or music style)
 * Yambu (erased, yambu is a style of rumba, so just mentioning rumba covers yambu guaguanco and columbia)
 * Palo Montel (its called Palo Monte)
 * Cha (is called Cha cha cha)

I did not change it, but i would like an explanation about how ABAKUA has influenced salsa dancing? Cause i cannot see it. There are cubans who dance abakua and put it into their salsadancing, i would call that "doing abakua steps to salsa music", not "salsa is influenced by abakua".

Lautaro [mailto:lautaro@bailattelo.com Mail Me!] Bailattelo.Com SIGNATURE?

Lucumi (i erased it, lucumis where a tribe from Africa, not a dance or music style)
 * While Lucumi may not be quite the right term, it is related (if not the same outright) as the Yoruba people and religion, who had a collection of music and dances to their gods (the Orishas), which were indeed another African influence on salsa music and dance in Cuba, so I think a mention of the Yoruba dances is not only appropriate, but necessary. Rumba y Son (talk) 01:05, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Origin of Dance
I think the Salsa dancing origins section of the article should emphasize the African origins of the dance more, at least for the Cuban, LA, and NY styles. I don't know how much African influence is in the Cali and other Latin American styles of salsa, if at all.

For example (speaking only about Cuban, LA, and NY styles here), talking about how some afro-cuban body movements are used in salsa, like from the various rumbas (yambu, guaguanco, etc). Also, I think briefly mentioning some of the Yoruba Orisha dances would also be very valuable and enlightening as well.Rumba y Son (talk) 23:41, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

Rhythm
As far as I can tell, the most work required is on the Rhythm section but has a passage which makes no sense to the casual reader. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Qfissler (talk • contribs) 22:46, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

This section of the Rhythm section needs to be worked on more:
 * There are basically two types of clave rhythm, the 2-3 and the 3-2 clave. The 2-3 clave is played on the counts of 2, 3, 5 and 8. Within the 8 beats that compose a basic salsa step, where the "and" count is the count that is between any two counts, e.g. the count between 5 and 6. Most salsa music is played with the 2-3 clave.

First of all, there are 3-2 and 2-3 son claves, but there are also 3-2 and 2-3 rumba claves. The son claves are more common in salsa music, but occasionally the rumba claves are used in some songs as well.

Second, the counts described aren't exactly clear. For 2-3 son clave, the counts are 2, 3, 5, the "and" of 6, and 8.

Rumba y Son (talk) 00:11, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

The Rhythm section of the article is terrible! As it is currently written, it doesn't really fit in well with the rest of the article, I think there's room for significant improvement. Is it really so necessary to get into such detail about the music? Shouldn't that be left to the Salsa (music) article?

Rumba y Son (talk) 05:49, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

New York Style
Isn't it the case, that New York Style is also danced 1-2-3 5-6-7, but has the break step on 2 and 6 (as opposed to "start on 2" which suggests that the step is shifted by one beat)? --Seefeld 10:17, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)


 * There are three or four distinct ways of dancing "on 2". The phrase "on 2" simply means that the break step falls on the second or sixth beat, and says nothing about the fall of the other dance steps. Might have to make this article my first re-write.--James barton 23:10, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC)

(Note: a user suggested removal of the article on New York Salsa. That article is gone so I removed this comment.  The following was posted as a response to the comment, and I preserve it as a record of an attitude to be borne in mind when editing the main page.) Sweavo 09:41, 15 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Not only the New York version on the history of Salsa is completely off reality, but it is also a distorted one. Those Latinos in the New York area are so narrow mainded that they actually xdvcxvzdfbgvzfxbzCuba. I've heard some of those people saying that Karate was invented in New York. The fact that many things in the universe use Nw York as the market test, does not mean that New York is the city of all inventions.


 * What I do know is that the stiff spinning of New York Salsa dancers constitutes a laughing matter for people in Havana. When those people visit Havana to exhibit their dancing styles there, we tell them that they are the best, but soon as they leave, we have tales for laughs for several weeks. All we want is for them to go to Havana and spend their money! So shake off that arrogance New York Latino, you don't really know how to dance!


 * Any person who contributes to this piece by laughing or sneering at a particular style or the people who dance it has no credibility and their comments can be easily disregarded. Dance of any sort is an evolutionary form and change or variation is natural. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.137.222.57 (talk) 09:09, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

The New York style section of the article is a bit on the long side, some of the more detailed stuff should be placed into the main article for NY style instead. Rumba y Son (talk) 00:52, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Link to www.festivalsero.com Is Off-Topic
I marked this link as off-topic because the only information it has about salsa dancing comes from this Wikipedia article itself. It's just a listing of salsa congresses going on around the world, which are not traditional and cultural festivals, but rather a recent commercial phenomenon (within the last 20 years...I read somewhere that the very first international salsa congress was held 1990). Anyway, such an external link would be more appropriate for an article specifically about Salsa Congresses, not a general article about salsa dancing. This is in agreement with Wikipedia's guideline regarding external links, see item #13 of Links normally to be avoided:

I suggest that the link be removed, is there anyone who disagrees?

Rumba y Son (talk) 21:01, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Cuban Salsa
Just a comment on the part of the article which describes Cuban salsa, it says that Cubans dance on the one but this is incorrect. First of all Cubans do not think of dancing in terms of breaking on the 1 or 2, rather they think in terms such as dancing a tiempo (with time) or dancing contra tiempo (against time). With faster music such as timba Cuban style dancers tend to dance a tiempo which means they will break on a downbeat such as the 1. With son and slower Cuban salsa Cuban style dancers tend to prefer dancing contra tiempo which means they will break on an up beat which may be the 2 but more typically is the 8 in traditional son style dancing. Mateo H


 * Cuban style dancers also quite ofter break on 3, which I think should be reflected in the article. John P


 * I think it's important to include this information. Got references? Signed by unknown.

The Cuban Salsa "Casino" section of the article is way too long, more of the detailed stuff should be placed into the main article for Cuban salsa. Rumba y Son (talk) 00:48, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

I've noticed that the link to the Casino_(salsa_dance) main article under the Cuban Salsa "Casino" section redirects to the article on Rueda de Casino. I don't think that's appropriate, the one-on-one partner version of Casino style salsa should get its own article, not be redirected to the group dance version.

Rumba y Son (talk) 22:34, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Some Reading For Future Contributors
I think the number of explanations of steps on this single page should be kept to a minimum. We also REALLY REALLY NEED references to written material! Even if you can watch http://www.amazon.com/Our-Latin-Thing-Nuestra-Costa/dp/B0003053FY/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/103-0821636-5320614?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1179340857&sr=8-1 and put some stuff on here attributed to that movie, it's all a triumph of fact over hearsay!

--SIGNATURE?
 * http://www.centralhome.com/ballroomcountry/salsa.htm Jaime Andrés Pretell
 * http://www.centralhome.com/ballroomcountry/mambo.htm
 * http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salsa_%28g%C3%A9nero_musical%29 looks interesting. If only I spoke spanish
 * http://www.thelavinagency.com/college/edmorales.html
 * http://www.thenation.com/directory/bios/ed_morales


 * As a Colombian, I feel offended that this section has a little paragraph dedicated to a music that, i really hate to say it, is currently bigger in Colombia than Cuba. If someone gets a chance please include the current information on guys like Son De Cali, Joe Arroyo, Fruko y Sus Tesos, when was the last time anybody danced to a Celia Cruz song in the modern Latin dance scene? And I honestly feel that Salsa should be seperated from Ballroom Salsa, in Latin America we don't acccept that as a form of actual Salsa. It should have its own article. SIGNATURE?


 * Hi, I know you Colombians are crazy for salsa... But aren't you talking about bands and musicians there? There's a salsa music article that might suit.  I'm sure there's room on this page for some stuff about Columbian salsa though.  I don't know enough about it to write anything much.  The "ballroom" salsa vs "street salsa" vs "roots salsa" vs "whatever else salsa" debate is a tough one, since whatever style people do they love it just the same.  Sometimes it comes down to "more flavour" vs. "more technique".  I'm sure we can make space for all types if we are careful.  I would love to read more about how salsa got into Columbia, and about the Cali style.  It's clear that Calenos have it going on! (Even though some people might reject those innovations as being "not salsa") SIGNATURE?

I'd also like to add another resource that can be used for citation in the main article:
 * History of Salsa by the Salsa & Merengue Society.

The page navigation for this site is kind of confusing and sucky, but if you look hard enough, there's also a really great section on the musical instruments in salsa, with sound samples of clave and conga tumbao and timbales cascara and stuff like that, here's the link:
 * Salsa Ear Training: Index of Tracks

--Rumba y Son (talk) 01:11, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Here are more resources I found that future editors can use to cite as references:
 * 1) http://www.nytimes.com/library/music/102400salsa-intro.html

--Rumba y Son (talk) 04:01, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Here's an AWESOME resource for citation of LA and NY style salsa dance, the La Epoca film! It talks about some of the history of salsa dancing, from the Palladium era (1940s, 50s) to the present day.

--Rumba y Son (talk) 23:16, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Mayan Competition under LA Style
I removed the entire paragraph about this as it was clearly biased and making unsubstantiated claims. A particular salsa competition doesn't really make sense to be in this entry anyway. If someone wants to make a separate entry for the Mayan that's fine, but it shouldn't be here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 143.215.129.46 (talk) 14:59, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I think mentioning the Mayan Competitions would be good actually, though I do agree that it would be difficult to verify claims made about it, because there isn't a lot of published reliable sources about LA style, and salsa dancing in general for that matter (especially in relation to the LA and contemporary NY style, since they're both relatively new). The Mayan Competitions were significant because they helped to popularize the LA-style, a lot of influential LA-style dancers participated in them, such as Johnny Vazquez, Liz Lira, and Alex Da Silva (follow links for videos on youtube).
 * --Rumba y Son (talk) 22:01, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I added the mention of the competitions to the Salsa dance (LA Style) article instead.
 * --Rumba y Son (talk) 22:42, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Discussion Page Too Large, Should Begin Archiving
This discussion page has gotten way too big, we should begin archiving older discussions. For instructions on how to do this, visit Help:Archiving a talk page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rumba y Son (talk • contribs) 20:52, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

I would like to set up automatic archiving of this discussion page, if anyone disagrees with this please leave a comment within the next 30 days. Information about automatic archiving can be found at ARCHIVE and ARCHIVE. --Rumba y Son (talk) 21:37, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Okay, I went and jumped the gun and added auto-archiving of old threads to this talk page. It won't actually start taking effect until about 12 hours from now. --Rumba y Son (talk) 22:15, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Search Boxes for Archvies Don't Seem to Work
I tried using the search boxes for the archives, but the links they generate don't seem to work, anyone know why?

Rumba y Son (talk) 21:49, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Okay, so it turns out that it can take up to a day for archives to be updated in the search index, you can read about it here, Help:Searching. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rumba y Son (talk • contribs) 17:38, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Linking to Salsa Lust
I recently linked Salsa Lust - www.salsalust.com. For thoes of you who don't know, Salsa Lust acts as an encyclopedia for Salsa Cuban style dancing variations (soon to be for other styles as well). The editor removed the link as he dimmed it spam. My personal thoughs are that Salsa Lust is a free knowlege base and is relevant for all salsa dancers.I would like to hear your genuine opinion as in regard for the link relevance for the Wikipedia pages: "Salsa (dance)" & "Rueda de Casino". --Idofle (talk) 05:27, 7 March 2011 (UTC)


 * SalsaLust is a useful, easy to use video dictionary of cuban-salsa steps.


 * It's a free site, so why not link to it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.55.43.145 (talk) 19:59, 9 March 2011 (UTC)


 * I do not believe that www.salsalust.com should be linked to the article, for the following reasons:
 * It is specific to Cuban-style salsa only, and does not even talk about the other style of salsa dancing. It would be more appropriate to include the website as an external link in the Cuban/Casino-style salsa article on Wikipedia.  Wikipedia itself has a guideline against linking to a website on a specific subject (Casino/Cuban-style salsa) from an article on a general subject (Salsa dancing in general), see item #13 of Links normally to be avoided:
 * www.salsalust.com also has an objectionable amount of advertising on it. On the front page alone, it includes a large Google banner ad, as well as 2 Google link ad units.  Those ad link units, in particular, look a lot like the navigation links on the left-hand side of the page.  I clicked on such a link unit title "Salsa Basic Step", thinking that it was part of the website, but instead it just took me to a page full of Google ads.  Also, on some pages, there's even an additional large Google banner ad on the bottom of the page, in addition to all the other previously mentioned ads.  There is a Wikipedia guideline against linking to such external sites, see item #5 of Links normally to be avoided:


 * --Rumba y Son (talk) 20:45, 18 March 2011 (UTC)


 * I think that www.salsalust.com should definitely be linked to this article, as it is a very useful and helpful resource.
 * Such a resource is quite invaluable to dancers looking for a wide range database for dance moves, and can save hours of searching on Youtube, Google, etc. It is free, and has both text and video descriptions of hundreds of Salsa moves, thus I think it can contribute to the wikipedia page about Salsa.


 * Mike
 * 84.229.101.225 (talk) 17:24, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Would you like to address the concerns that I laid out above, that 1) the site is specific to Cuban/Casino style salsa only, and would be better suited to the Cuban/Casino-style specific salsa article, not the general article on salsa dancing, and 2) the objectionable amount of advertising on the site? In addition, the website doesn't even make any attempt to explain that its content is specific to Cuban/Casino style salsa only, and not salsa dancing of other styles. --Rumba y Son (talk) 18:35, 19 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Actually I'll address the concerns (as the site admin). The site truly has too much ads. The links in the menu are a bit misleading and Its one of the things that I intend to remove very soon. Any other ad unit however will remain in place. The profits just barely cover the costs of maintaining the site not to mention the time I invest in regular updates. So if any ads at all are a problem by itself I can't say much. But I think every site has its own way of funding itself, and as long as the information is free and the ads are reasonably placed it's okay.


 * As for the Cuban style only concern. Salsa Lust is not intended to be Cuban\Casino style only (actually it's even covering some Miami style moves too). Salsa Lust suppose to cover other styles too with LA as the first next candidate, but it might take some time until it happens for various reasons. So by looking at the rules presented it might be true that it's more relevant to the Cuban/Casino-style specific salsa article however it won't take too long until it will be relevant to this page as well.
 * --84.228.98.233 (talk) 21:07, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I would be less-inclined to disagree with adding www.salsalust.com as an external link if you added significantly more content for LA and/or New York style salsa. Perhaps we should get a 3rd-opinion from a Wikipedia administrator or editor with more authority to resolve disputes? --Rumba y Son (talk) 23:44, 20 March 2011 (UTC)


 * It might tkae some time until LA moves will show up. I'm not much of an expert on any other style other than Cuban\Casino. Until I come across a devoted proffessional to gather up content it won't be possible. Until that time comes It might be more appropriate to put it as an external link in Cuban\Casino pages. The Wikipedia experts I've dealt with were quick to assume it's a matter of 'Conflct of interests'. Can't blame them, as they don't understand the content itself but I want to wait a few more days to allow people to give their opinions and provide more Un'Conflict of interests' facts. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.228.86.171 (talk) 18:09, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

New Lady Styling Section May Misrepresent Its Significance
A new section on Lady Styling was added to Styles section of the article. I think that the way the Lady Styling section is presented misrepresents what it is and its significance. It's listed under the Styles section as if it were a unique style of salsa dancing that is different and of equal importance to the other styles under that section, i.e. Cali, Cuban, LA, and New York style. "Ladies styling" is not a term that describes a unique style of salsa dancing, it merely refers to the type of movements and flourishes that girls will use to make their dancing feminine, give it a girly-looking "style". LA and New York style salsa incorporates a lot of ladies styling for girls, while it isn't used as much in Cuban style dancing, if at all (at least not in partnerwork). Of Cali dancing, I don't know, I'm not familiar enough with that style to say.

Perhaps the section should be removed altogether? I don't think ladies styling is significant enough to warrant mention in this article, and certainly not significant enough to be represented as being equally important to Cali, Cuban, LA and New York style salsa dancing.

--Rumba y Son (talk) 06:38, 24 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Please fix it! I don't know enough about the topic, but the fragment seemed to be out of context as a freestanding article. You can revert both changes if you think it advisable. --Wtshymanski (talk) 14:46, 24 April 2011 (UTC)


 * I see now, I was wondering where the information about ladies styling came from! I think it was appropriate to remove its status as a free-standing article, as there is currently not enough interesting information out there to warrant that (certainly nothing that's readily citable, I think).  I think the redirect should be deleted too though, as lady styling isn't something that's specific to salsa dancing, it can be an aspect of other dance genres too.  Thanks for your help with maintaining the salsa dance articles, I appreciate your input! --Rumba y Son (talk) 18:11, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

Merge from Peruvian salsa
Hi, thanks for your recent contribution to the Salsa (dance) article. However, I've raised a humble objection to the changes, please see the Talk:Salsa (dance) for more details. --Rumba y Son (talk) 06:44, 24 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your help with maintaining the salsa dance articles =) --Rumba y Son (talk) 18:12, 24 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Something of which my entire knowledge has come from Wikipedia articles. You might want to have a look at Peruvian salsa - can this be merged to the  main salsa article? --Wtshymanski (talk) 18:31, 24 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Well, one of the things that one must understand about salsa dancing is that there are many, many different styles of it out there, and different regions tend to have their own style for it (hence the Cali, Cuban, LA, and New York styles). Those styles I just mentioned are significant for a number of reasons:
 * They have spread geographically beyond their original founding locations, and can now be found in many different countries and continents.
 * They are well known and studied, and (with the exception, perhaps, of Cali style) have been codified by many instructors and dancers.
 * For the above two reasons, they are thus all well-represented internationally (including at international salsa congresses) and through media such as YouTube.
 * So I don't doubt that Peruvians have their own style of dancing salsa...many if not all Latin American countries probably do. But I don't believe that it's appropriate for the contents of that article to exist on Wikipedia at all, let alone be merged into the Salsa (dance), for the following reasons:
 * The article doesn't cite sources, and I'm skeptical about some of its claims, like that Peruvian salsa is similar to LA style in its basic step. Granted, much of the salsa dance articles don't cite sources very well, if at all, but I'll attest that overall, they get all the most important things correct.
 * Peruvian style salsa, if such a thing exists, is not nearly as well known as the other styles listed in the Salsa (dance) article. It probably isn't codified either.
 * Those are my thoughts about it. By the way, would you mind if we copy this discussion over to the discussion page for the Salsa (dance) article?  I think it's worth recording there. --Rumba y Son (talk) 21:22, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

Even the main article needs improved footnotes, and Youtube videos are not considered a reliable source since there's no editorial control. I've moved this discussion here as suggested. If Peruvian salsa is not a notably different dance style then perhaps it should be nominated for deletion. --Wtshymanski (talk) 01:20, 25 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I agree that the Peruvian article isn't notable enough (currently) to be included in Wikipedia, and that it should be nominated for deletion. I also agree that the main Salsa (dance) article could use substantially better footnotes (I'm currently not willing to invest much time in that, however). --Rumba y Son (talk) 01:56, 25 April 2011 (UTC)


 * I disagree with the idea of deleting Peruvian Salsa as it is a distinctive style albeit not well-known yet. Callao is emerging as an important port of call in the Salsa World, especially in Latin America. Peruvians have been dancing Salsa "A la Peruana" for many years with steps of Cumbia, Marinera and Festejo. With the popularisation of "Salsa de Salon" (Salsa that is learnt in academies) some Peruvians have started to wonder if they should also standarise their steps. This is where the journey of Peruvian Salsa starts; it is a style in the making which will soon be codified.Having said that, there are steps that are unique to Peruvian Salsa such as the "Festejo Walk", "The Peruvian Thrust" and the "Marinera Double Kick". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 149am (talk • contribs) 13:22, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

Salsa info
Nothing existed before on where people salsa dance. Salsa festivals are a huge part of the salsa community, so I added info, plus some references. I'm sure even more could be added, but that's all I can think of for now. --Adam00 (talk) 03:50, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

Merge discussion
All right. Per the recent AFD, resulted in the merger of following articles: Salsa dance (Cali Style), Salsa dance (LA Style) and Salsa dance (New York Style). Unless someone objects, I am going to start merging these articles into the main article in the next couple of hours. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 20:58, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

Reference #5
It's an advertisement. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.203.11.144 (talk) 03:19, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

BPM of afro-cuban dance music
the BPMs listed in this piece are off the charts, only the fastest merengues hit 160 bpm, and that's not "salsa." Speeds for that music range from mid-80s to 115 at most. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.113.42.60 (talk) 06:23, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

Video Salsa dancers (dancesport)
I have added a video describing dancing salsa in Cali during the dance competition at the World Games 2013.--Roboting (talk) 14:10, 10 January 2014 (UTC)

Stepping on the first beat for New York-style salsa
I reverted the changes made in this edit (emphasized changes made): "Like LA-style salsa, New York style is danced in a line. However, unlike LA style, it is danced starting on the second beat of the music ("on 2"), and the follower steps forward at the start of the dance, not the leader."

You are not required to start dancing on the 2nd beat of the music, you can start on any beat. The only requirement is that the "break step" is on the 2nd beat of the music (using a 4-beat musician's measure). If using an 8-beat dancer's measure, then the break step falls on the 2nd and 6th beats.

Also, it is not a requirement that the follower steps forward at the beginning of the dance, only that the follower steps forward on the 1st and 2nd beat. For example, a leader may begin the dance by stepping forward on the 5th and 6th beats.


 * Can you check that comment on the 8-beat intro, please? My maths says that 3-4 and 4-4 comes together at 12-4. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 176.250.135.238 (talk) 12:39, 4 October 2018 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion: You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 23:07, 31 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Bailarines de Salsa en Cali.webm

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 11:53, 1 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Bailarines de Salsa en Cali.webm