Talk:Salt Lake City/Archive 1

Untitled
A history section -- including stuff about natives -- would be good. The beginnings are already there! -- Sam --

Neighborhoods
I de-wikified the neighborhoods in the list. The exception was the Federal Heights link; that article exists primarily to mention the neighborhood's connection with the Elizabeth Smart kidnapping. The other neighborhoods should probably remain link-free until somebody decides there's something notable enough about them to justify separate Wikipedia articles for them.

I also re-wrote the paragraph about LDS wards to add some clarity as well as mention stakes as another geographical region commonly encountered in Salt Lake City. Alanyst 07:13, 10 Jun 2004 (UTC)

I rewikied the neighborhood links, I do intend to write a Sugar House article (when I can get all the proper research done) and others may not realize they can go in and do this too with out the wiki links...thats what they are for, to show an article needs to be written... --JonMoore 22:54, 11 Jun 2004 (UTC)


 * Fair enough. I'm not convinced that an article needs to be written about every single neighborhood unless there's something notable to write, but I don't feel strongly enough to get into an edit war over it.  That said, I wonder if the wiki pages for the neighborhoods shouldn't be given more specific names.  I'm sure there are other locales called Rose Park or the Avenues elsewhere in the world.  How do we disambiguate?  "Rose Park (district of Salt Lake City)"?  Alanyst 16:36, 12 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Maybe try just "Rose Park (Salt Lake City)" -JonMoore 01:55, 24 Jun 2004 (UTC)

I rewrote the history section which sounded lumpy and uneven and included the full name of the LDS Church. I also added some of the newer and more famous buildings in the "attractions" section -- CCampbell--65.177.105.123 22:52, 16 Jun 2004 (UTC)

I would have to agree that, at a minimum, the neighborhoods should be referenced as "Neighborhood (Salt Lake City)". If no one objects, I will try to go through and fix the links. Davejenk1ns 10:51, 24 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Sugar House vs Sugarhouse
Not to be nit picky, but is this neighborhood one word or two? Ive seen it both ways, although the little signs on the street signs have it as 2...Anyone know for sure...? --JonMoore 09:25, 29 Jun 2004 (UTC)
 * Good question. I was sure it was one word, Sugarhouse&mdash;until I started researching it.  According to the USGS GNIS system (official place names index of the U.S.), "Sugar House" is the main entry for the locale, but "Sugarhouse" is listed as a variant name.  See . Alanyst 17:43, 29 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Stakes and Wards
A couple of users have made changes that I have had to revert, so here's a heads-up so I don't have to explain the same revert each time.

The sentence in question is "The LDS church also divides the city (and other locations where it is strong) into stakes and wards." Some people think it should read "other locations where it is organized" or something to that effect. I think the original is more accurate; the church does not have stakes and wards everywhere it is organized, or else districts and branches would not exist. It's a pretty minor point for an article about Salt Lake City, but I like to be as precise as possible. Perhaps it needs to be reworded entirely to avoid this conflict in the future, but I'm not going to tackle that myself right now. Alanyst 00:52, 26 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Here's a suggestion for your dilema: This is an article about Salt Lake City. Make the sentence relevant to Salt Lake City. Make a separate, brief parenthesized sentence to explain "other locations" if you feel it is necessary. In the context in which the subject sentence appears, "also" implies that the LDS church is the one that designated the neighborhoods (in the previous paragraphs). But does this paragraph really belong here anyway? Wouldn't it fit better in the context of religious affiliation? Val42 04:25, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)

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Can Buildings and sites of Salt Lake City, Utah be incorporated into the main Salt Lake City, Utah article? It seems a bit redundant, but I don't want to go ahead and just do it without some consensus. --JonMoore 17:36, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)


 * I think that's a sensible thing to do. I would have put it into the main article except I was afraid it would overwhelm the existing content. As it is, I think the Salt Lake City article is inadequate, but don't have the time to fix it. Also, the "Buildings and sites" articles has a large number of wikilinks to articles that do not exist, but I think should be written (many of which I'm working on). That's in contrast with the Salt Lake City article that has few red links. Even those red links--the neighborhoods, for example--are apparently controversial. I support incorporating the material as long as the wikilinks remain to show the names of articles that should be written. CHL 19:00, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)

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Media List
I've been adding local media, ie, TV stations, radio stations, newspapers, and magazines...it's getting quite long...should i move it to a seperate "List of Salt Lake City Media"? JonMoore 17:38, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * did it...JonMoore 17:48, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC)

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Mayor Rocky
How should the mayor's name be presented? By his offical name: Ross C. "Rocky" Anderson, or what people know him by: Rocky Anderson. -Jon 20:15, 21 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * I think Rocky would be better. Media usually use that name unless they're being very formal. For an article, one should just redirect to the other. CHL 04:02, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I concur -Jon 18:29, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I disagree. According to my understanding of the naming conventions, the correct naming would be his official name "Ross C. Anderson". Then there should be a redirect page of "Rocky Anderson". -- Val42 04:42 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I'm not sure, I always understood it was the "most common name", for example: there is an article on Jimmy Carter, but not James Earl Carter, which redirects...

It really makes no difference, really...redirect away if you see fit... :-) --Jon, Conqueror of Men 05:22, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)

The "Box"
I guess there are people better versed in wiki markup than I, but as well as I can tell the box wants to sit a tad to the left of the Utah capitol pic. I took the capitol pic out of the box to make it conform a bit more with the info boxes in other large city pages. See: Seattle, Washington; Philadelphia, Pennsylvania; Miami, Florida; etc. As near as I can tell it has to do with the size of the font, the amount of text in the intro, as well as the size of the pic, hence reducing it to 200 pix. If anyone knows how to fix this better than I, I would be eternally grateful... -Jon 04:42, 29 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * I ripped off what Seatle was doing. Basically, it's a table in a table. The image and box are both in a large table with zero borders. I love the new flag and seal, BTW. Now I just wish we could get better pictures of Salt Lake. (I really don't like the hazy picture of the Capitol and tops of buildings.) Cool Hand Luke  06:41, 29 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Salt Lake as a coastal city
How is Salt Lake City not a coastal city? It has more than 100000 people, is on the shore of a major lake (the Great Salt Lake is the largest in the U.S. west of the Mississippi River), and can accommodate water traffic (there are a lot of piers). Category:Coastal cities permits cities on the coasts of major lakes to be counted as coastal cities. It works for the Caspian Sea, the Aral Sea, the Dead Sea, Lake Victoria, the Great Lakes, Lake Titicaca, etc... The fact that Salt Lake is the only major city on the Great Salt Lake shouldn't really matter, should it? If there were no accommodation for water traffic, I could possibly understand a city not being thought of as a coastal city. But the piers along the Salt Lake metropolitan area support many yachts and other recreational watercraft. Great Salt Lake is not tiny. :P - Gilgamesh 06:33, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Consider these cities already in the category: Duluth, Minnesota is at the western tip of Lake Superior. Kampala is on the northern shore of Lake Victoria. Baku, Azerbaijan is on the west coast of the Caspian Sea. The only possibly relevant things I can think of that these cities do not have in common with Salt Lake: The Great Salt Lake has no international boundary nor demanding for international commerce shipping, but it is still a large lake and factors heavily into the paradigm of Salt Lake's existence. It hosts seagulls, influences Salt Lake Valley climate, dominates the skyline, provides an outlet for many boating opportunities, and does not exist in a bubble outside Salt Lake City's existence. - Gilgamesh 06:48, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * 1) These cities reside on lakes that share international boundaries with other countries.
 * 2) These cities handle international commerce.  Duluth in particular is actually a seaport.


 * Actually, it's not even "on the shore." The shore is miles away, especailly now because of the low water levels. Besides, it's generally to be avoided. Labeling Salt Lake a "coastal city" thus perpetuates a common misconception about it.
 * Even if the lake were on an international border, the Great Salt Lake wouldn't accomodate significant traffic as it's incredibly shallow. It cannot be compared to the Great Lakes and certainly not the Caspian Sea. Thus, Salt Lake City could never be described as a port city, which is the #1 qualification for the coastal city category. The lake is so shallow that a railroad was built straight across it.
 * Don't put it in this category. Thanks. Cool Hand Luke  07:13, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)


 * Gilgamesh, Salt Lake City is not a coastal city.  From the definitions: "A port city, it should be able to handle international vessels".  Now, last time I checked, there are no international borders, nor access to international waters from The Great Salt Lake.  Unless they finally dug that trench from the tlake to California (Brigham Young`s idea back in the day), Great Salt Lake has no international traffic (like the Great Lakes, Lake Victoria, Caspian Sea).  In fact, The GSL has no cargo traffic at all-- only pleasure cruising.  Moreover, Salt Lake City is not dependent nor interactive with the lake on an economic or cultural basis (above a few salt mining outfits and some brine shrimpers).  There is no way Salt Lake City qualifies as a coastal city.User:Davejenk1ns


 * Good points, I can accept that. - Gilgamesh 07:27, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)


 * Apparently I don't get up early enough in the morning for this stuff...;-)
 * -Jon, Conqueror of Men 01:35, 5 Oct 2004 (UTC)


 * Hey, I was intentionally testing the limits of definition. You can't blame me for that. :) - Gilgamesh 08:47, 5 Oct 2004 (UTC)

WikiProject:Cities
Hey, I stumbled upon this and just thought it would be good if we used it as a guideline for standardizing this article: WikiProject Cities. I'm pretty tired tonight, but I may start working on some of it tomorrow... Also, the talk page is getting pretty long...anyone know how to archive it?
 * Jon, Conqueror of Men 03:13, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)


 * I think this article is not too far from the standard. The handsome box you made (presumably templated off another city) is quite similar to what they have&mdash;it has the same information, mostly. It seems we just need to reorganize the subheadings. If we do this, I'd like not to lose any content. I think we have a much better article than it was a few months ago.
 * I think most people move long discussions to an archive subpage like "Talk:Salt Lake City, Utah/Archive1". Then you recreate a new talk page here (with a link to the archive, usually). You have to because it replaces the page with a redirect when you move it.
 * BTW, I like your new signature. It's not new, I guess, but I just noticed. Cool Hand Luke  07:06, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for the input, I have this teensy goal in the back of my head that Salt Lake will have a page as good as, or better than most of the major western cities (I'm not going to try to compete yet with the eastern cities and their god-forsaken 250 year histories ;-)) I think our fair municipality already has most of them beat in the history department. Portland's says something about it being a clearing... Yss, I agree, we shouldn't lose any content... We have a great article, and we can still make it better...maybe the best US city article if we try hard :) Ok, enough for my lofty goals... -Jon, Conqueror of Men 18:20, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)

SLC in Film and famous Salt Lakers
I added a section under "Media" for salt lake in film, and added the only movie I could think of, SLC Punk. I have seen this section in other city pages, and assume the films should be about or set in the city (ie, not just a general purpose list of films shot in SLC [but set somewhere else] or about Mormonism in general).

Also, I would like to see a section on famous or notable Salt Lakers. From my research in other articles, this seems to be people of national or international note, not say, the guy who does the weather on KSL. Sadly, no one comes to mind... Are there no famous Salt Lakers? Do, say John Stockton or those other Jazz players count, since they are not natives? I know there have to be some.
 * Cheers --Jon, Conqueror of Men 18:44, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure if it should technically be "in film." Doesn't that new ski drama take place in Alta? Or was it just shot there?

Also, I would think that John Stockton and Karl Malone are eligible as famous Salt-Lakers, because that's what most people think of when they think of them (aside from basketball).

POV statements
I take issue with two very POV-ish statements (in bold) added by User:67.40.8.52:

from History:

On July 24, 1847 143 men, three women and two children members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints founded Salt Lake City on the eastern shore of the Great Salt Lake. They were led by Brigham Young who led the Saints after the death of the religion's founder Joseph Smith, Jr.. Upon arrival to the Salt Lake valley, and after driving away the indigenous peoples living on the land the Saints coveted, Young reportedly confirmed a vision by saying, "It is enough. This is the right place. Drive on." Originally named "Great Salt Lake City", the city became Utah's state capital on January 4, 1896.


 * This statement is not very encyclopedic, and sounds as if the Saints pushed permanent settlers off their land. As I recall from my history, the Valley had no permanent settlers until the Saints.

from Government & Politics:

Although the mayor is officially a non-partisan position, Salt Lake City has elected Democratic mayors for almost the last 16 years, despite the overwhelming local Republican political leanings. City council members tend to be local well-knowns elected under specific issues (school zoning, economic development, etc.) The metropolitan area's political demographics are unlike much of the rest of Utah and its cities and counties where mostly Republicans or conservative citizens dominate and are represented by politicians of similar persuasion.


 * SL County and City are both quite liberal, when compared with the rest of the state of Utah.

I feel these statements should be removed...Comments, Opinions??


 * [[user:JonMoore| J ON, Conqueror of Men - (Talk to Me, Baby!)]] 04:19, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)


 * I guess User:Davejenk1ns took care of it, never mind...
 * [[user:JonMoore| J ON, Conqueror of Men - (Talk to Me, Baby!)]] 04:24, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)