Talk:Saluki/Archive 1

Untitled
"During the filming of Kingdom of Heaven in Morocco (2004-05), English actor Orlando Bloom rescued and adopted a dog, Sidi, who is a black Saluki mix" - a look at the many photos and videos of Sidi http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1ruzzrnYKM shows very little of a Saluki - if any - about him. There are other and better examples to cite...Maingauche (talk) 02:25, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

"In the television series "Frasier", Niles (David Hyde Pierce) owns a Saluki for a period of time after his divorce. She is likened in appearance to his ex-wife, Meris." - This dog is clearly a Whippet. This bit should be removed or sent over to the Whippet page.Maingauche (talk) 17:17, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

"The overall appearance of the Saluki is one of grace and symmetry." -- as opposed to which asymmetric dog breeds?Manormadman (talk) 01:58, 3 January 2009 (UTC)Manormadman


 * Does anyone know how fast a Saluki runs? Either in miles per hour or kilometers per hour.Kenallen 01:26, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

My experience is a good saluki's absolute top speed is about 70km/hr. But bearing in mind this is rarely attained, and it is very difficult to measure accurately because they usually vary speed and direction when hunting, and are somewhat unmotivated to run a ordinary flat track.


 * I own a book that says the top speed is around 40 mph. —Preceding unsigned comment added by APBTgirl (talk • contribs) 00:36, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

The suggestion in the original article that a Saluki is faster than a Greyhound is incorrect. Greyhounds and Salukis have been run head to head in the sport of open field coursing, where dogs chase live jackrabbits or hares. Here there is no question of motivation. These dogs were bred to chase and greyhounds always have the early speed advantage running head to head. Salukis have much better endurance and better ability to run in the heat so they compete very well when the chase runs long. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Steve wmn (talk • contribs) 17:47, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Can someone do some research into the origin of this dog and it's name. The word "saluki" sounds like it must be derived from the Hellenic dynasty known as the seleucids.


 * Well, the online dictionary (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/dict.asp?Word=saluki) says "Arabic saluqi, of Saluq, an ancient city of southern Arabia." Whereas The Complete Saluki Book, (Book of the Breed) by Diana Allan, Ken Allan. Copyright © 1999. excerpted on Amazon (http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/186054195X/026-0757487-4718015?v=product-description&n=266239), supports your suggestion, among others, saying (I hope this is ok to quote): "The true origin of this beautiful breed of Arabian hunting hound is lost in the mists of time and the shifting sands of the desert; even the source of the name 'Saluki' is a mystery. Saluki is an anglicism of the Arabic word saluqi, and research through medieval literature, written in Arabic, reveals several places which may have given their name to the hound of the desert. Some lexicographers have suggested that the origin of the word was derived from a town called Saluk, in Southern Arabia, which no longer exists. Saluk or Saluq was famous for its armour and hounds, and reference to the hounds is made in an early Arab verse: "Oh my hound brought by Kings from Saluk". Another line from a verse composed by an Umayyad poet reads: "They have with them their hounds of Saluq, like horses wheeling in battle, dragging on their halters." There is another place named Saluq in Armenia, to the west of the Caspian Sea. Other Arabic sources mention two towns with the name Saluqiyah, from which the Saluq might have been derived. The last and perhaps the most plausible suggestion is that the name saluqi could be derived from Seleucia (Saluqiyah in Arabic), a city on the west bank of the Tigris south of Baghdad, founded by Seleucus I in 312BC. The city was the capital of the Seleucid dynasty which survived down to circa 65AD. This implies that the word Saluki does not originate from one specific place, but is associated with the vast Middle Eastern Empire of the Seleucid dynasty."

Zooterkin 14:44, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Salukis at Southern Illinois University
Speaking of Salukis — a breed of dog — at SIU-Carbondale, mention of that town always brings to mind their second-most-famous hound, Old Boomer. Just outside of town, near the railroad tracks, stands a monument to him. It seems that a few decades into the 20th century, Old Boomer sensed a “hot box” on a coal car on a train swiftly passing through — on which his master was a trainman. Realizing, as dogs do, that an out-of-grease “hot box” could lead to derailment, he ran alongside, got up to speed, and, with one leg raised, of course, continuously peed on the site of the overheated bearing as he ran — not realizing that a bridge abutment was fast approaching — against which he bashed his brains out and died. I guess that’s why they call the canine Man’s Best Friend. That old a son of a bitch! Apparently, his master did live to fabricate the story. There’s even a trackside stone monument there to prove it.

- Posted here by Pat Briody


 * Little Egypt (not "Egypt")

The southern portion of Illinois is often referred to as "Little Egypt" (as opposed to "Egypt") due to the fertile farm land and how the Mississippi and Ohio rivers interconnects each other, creating something of a delta at the southern most tip of the state. Also at the tip of the state is a city name Cairo (among others such as Sparta, New Athens, Thebes and Palestine...). The southern part of the state has several smaller rivers that branch off of the Mississippi and Ohio rivers, contributing to the fertility of the land. Since my family is from Carbondale, I can wholeheartedly attest to the moisture content of the soil, and the thick humidity (as well as the scent of said soil- which has a hint of oil in it- during growing season) during the spring and summer months. If you can't manage to grow crops in this portion of the state, you may as well consider yourself a failure..... as long as my family has been there, I never seen a plant nor tree that refused to grow in this soil rich region. When farmers from the northern part of the state have issues growing crops, it's nearly guaranteed that the farmers from this area will undoubtedly do well during the same season.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Egypt_(region)

Sessou (talk) 00:47, 12 March 2009 (UTC) Robison, Carbondale Il.

Size of head
It appears from the photos that this breed has a small head in comparison to the rest of its body (in comparison with other dog breeds). Is this correct? Badagnani 06:49, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Yes, this is correct, and is true for most sight hounds. The english greyhound has an even smaller head in comparison to it's body (it has a substantially heavier body than a saluki)

Azawakh or Sloughi Mentions
There has been some recent activity on this page in regards to changing the information to Azawakh or Sloughi, From every sournce I have looked at online, and in many dog books, it seems to counter these statements. The edits tend to come from sources with no registration. Anyone care to comment on how we should proceed? It seems that one person is bent on making sure their version of the facts are the ones that stick?!

The focus of this ---> paragraph is on the Sloughi, not the Saluki. I am going to delete it. The Sloughi or Azawakh and not the Saluki appears on the ancient Egyptian tombs of 2100 B.C. and was so esteemed that their bodies was often mummified like the bodies of the Pharaohs themselves. Many early stone inscriptions depict the young King Tutankhamen hunting with his pair of royal Slougis/Azawakh and the remains of numerous specimens have been found in the ancient tombs of the Upper Nile region. Wolfie the Marshmallow 23:02, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

It is widely believed that Sloughi and Saluki are both westernizations of the same Arabic base name "saluqi". Traditional Bedouin Arab breeders wouldn't think twice about breeding a Sloughi and Saluki together if they thought the breeding pair was a good match. But in formalized western breeding with registered pedigrees it isn't done. The Sloughi is recognized as a separate breed by the FCI (European breed registry) but is not recognized at all by the AKC in the US. The first Salukis to be recognized in formal western breed registries were brought out of Saudi Arabia to the UK. The first Sloughis to get into a formal breed registry were brought out of Northern Africa by the French. Both were the product of Bedouin Arab breeding in their country of origin. Azawakhs, while similar in type were bred by Tuareg tribesmen in Northern Africa. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Steve wmn (talk • contribs) 17:39, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Hair or Fur?
Does the Saluki have hair that requires grooming or fur that sheds? Could someone include it in the article? Thanks! -Laikalynx 20:37, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Well, salukis need to be brushed, and yes they do shed. . . alot. They dont really need to go to a groomer but yes they do shed —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.214.133.99 (talk) 20:06, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Correction in other names of the breed
In the main page under the main photo there is a list of other names of this breed, when "Tazi" is mentioned as one of them. This is a great mistake as Tazi is a total different breed. The only connection between the Saluki and the Tazi is that they are both used in hunts. Many breeders see the Tazi as a primitve breed rather than a sighthound.

I do think this should be corrected as it is wrong information on a serious breed.

what about Cross?
in 1996 ( i beleve) a man by the name of yoshihiro takahashi wrote a manga about a young akita inu named Gin, he called thisese Ginga Nigarboshi Gin. one of the charaters gin meats along his journay is a saluki named Cross. she is the only female in the pack of wild dogs Gin joins. she is the mate of one of the comanders and just before the final battle she has 3 puppies.

i feel that Cross should be mentioned.... i just dont kno how to do it.... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.41.23.191 (talk) 01:10, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

Greyhound speed reference
This is a minor nit, but originally the article claimed that greyhounds reach speeds of 72kph/45mph. I have corrected it to match the greyhound article on Wikipedia, which arrives at a top speed circa 65kph/40mph based on data from straight-line race tracks. This is a better number, is more verifiable, and most importantly, the figures quoted in the Saluki article should agree with (and originate from) the greyhound one.

Assessment comment
Substituted at 15:44, 1 May 2016 (UTC)

This is not a Persian Greyhound
The guy who inserted "Persian greyhound" got confused between Tazi and Saluki because they look similar. This dog has nothing to do with Persia because it's native land is an Arab country. Tazi is from the dog family (Greyhound) but definitely not an Arabian Saluki. Even the Persian name in the article is (Persian: تازی) which is pronounced Tazi. While the Arabic name is سلوقي which is pronounced Saluki. Therefore The name Persian Greyhound should be removed from Saluki article. 107.202.79.23 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 02:54, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

Any evidence on the name and the origin
If by a chance you want to mention poem of Yazīd b. Dirār al-Muzarrid and or Umayyad poet Umayr b. Suyaym al-Qutami, I should say beside the four + two actual places in the same era with similarity in names to that of the only city in the Arabia called "Saliq"  which can be the root to the adjective Saluqi (In Arabic: means from Saluq ) we have Seleucia the capital of Seleucid Empire ( in today Iraq ) which has been a part of the great Persia during millenniums until 18 and 19 century divisions forced by British influence. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/85/Seleucid-empire-323BCE.png http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b0/Diadochen1.png/250px-Diadochen1.png And as you can see in the maps above Iran extends from Pakistan to Anatolia in those times. And also there is a similarity in name with a city in modern day East Azerbaijan province in Iran which has its name from a very very long time ago. the city is called Saluk. Surprised huh! And other cities can be named here like : Salhq, a town on the border of Armenia, somewhere to the west of the Caspian Sea; (2) Sal-iqiyyah 6 near Antioch; or (3) Saliiqiyyah, the Silifke of present-day Turkey

But what about the word "Tazi" and it's history? good question. I will answer that in the page for Tazi if anyone asked. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Netbios (talk • contribs) 17:45, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

health issues
There have been many examinations during the last decades on salukis health issues. Due to the practice of breeding based on the pedigree, which is prevalent in west, health issues have been put in the shadow many times as the saluki was no longer required to be functional to be bred as it is in it countries of origin (in the villages and tents only the best and the survivors can have the chance to mate). There are salukis with health issues like cancer and heart problems everywhere but it is less common in countries of origin because of the best to best breeding practice. There have been no universal surveys in any of the countries of origin that form the basis of the western studbooks. Recent examinations in western side of the world are generally based on western bred salukis, so little is known at this time about the general health in countries of origin but it must be acknowledged that the practice of breeding the best to the best has been successful over many millennium, proven by the continued existence of the saluki in his original homelands. http://www.salukihealthresearch.com/ has a few valuable articles on the issue of health in the saluki.

I believe either the health issue section from the top should be removed or be edited to something like: "Health issues in salukis include cancer and cardiac problems but it is less common in countries of origin." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Netbios (talk • contribs) 03:38, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

why all these changes without talking about them here
Changing the order of terms, removing links and lines without bringing a reason?! Netbios (talk) 13:44, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

I did Undo some changes
The reasons for ordering Persian greyhound and royal dog of egypt in the form it is now is Evidence of existence of saluki-like hounds in Persia are much more higher and older than any other place on the earth. See the sources mentioned in the article. 2. some sources to very famous petroglyphs recently found in central Iran which can be dated Ca.10000 BC- 8000 BC where deleted. Why is that? can't you ask or do a bit of research about it before you delete it?

3. the order of arranging text that explain about historic evidence is like this : OLDER > NEWER Then do not change order because you think 2000BC in Egypt has higher priority that for example 5000BC in Susa or 10000BC in golpayegan.

4. Never edit without an explanation.

5. Reasoning before nationalism, reasoning before ego, reasoning and not dogmatism. Netbios (talk) 21:44, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Amherest brought salukis from Egyptin 1895, Persian Greyhound first referenced 1835
Zhila the Persian Greyhound is quite famous in UK. she is the earliest reference to the term "Persian greyhound" and it is coined in 1835. read about her and look for the painting I mentioned in one of the comments above. There were no Royal Dog of Egypt before Amherest's import from Egypt, which is 1895..

THEN do not change the order again, please.

Netbios (talk) 21:57, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Introduction
Reference to Koran added - Surat Al-Mā'idah (The Table Spread) - سورة المائدة

DWZRV (Germany sighthounds club) first litter record - added

KC (UK Saluki Club) first record - added

PLEASE if you don't have enough information on the subject or you are biased, do not change anything. Also do not change without discussing it here. Netbios (talk) 09:00, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

Avestan Reference
Vendidad Avesta, the sacred book of Zoroastrians mentions Saluki- like hounds, also added. Avesta is 300-500 B.C

Netbios (talk) 09:05, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

Changes in History section
Some facts and references added to the history section. including ... Netbios (talk) 11:39, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) 18th century Savashi relief,
 * 2) 14th century Injuids,
 * 3) correction to the name origin based on latest articles

I needed to answer you here, this is Persian Saluki and also Tazi, Tazy and Tanji!
Most of the studs in European and Amercian studbooks are directly imported from Iran and this is not a 10 year old story. if you check the history a little bit more in detail and do not consume whatever narrow minded individuals who write books from their armchair in US and never made the effort to see the Origin of this landrace/Breed which is Middle East you will see that this breed of animal is aboriginal to Iran and Iran ( if you like deserts and Arabs ) has the hottest deserts and a great influence over Arabs in total. also the oldest findings and evidences show that Salukis were in Iran much before any other place on the earth and they traveled through silk route to many other places. check Golpaygan Rock art, Susa beakers, Chogha mish bowls, Tal i Bakun pottery, Vandidad Avesta, All the miniatures during centuries, vessels of Sassanian dynasty, Tange Savashi relief and so on to know more about the history of this breed. and Also if you dont mind bring me an evidence of the name Saluqi or Saluki being used in a reference older than 3-4 hundred years. And if you liked me to supply you with some resources I will be glad to show you more than 20 resources about my opinion. Arabian Saluki, Persian Saluki, Turkish Saluki, Kurdish Saluki were all once considered the same specie until westerners formed the kennel clubs and inbred some few imports over and over until they changed the whole formation of a hunter to a show dog. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Netbios (talk • contribs) 15:43, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

I hope you don't mind me saying this and I mean no deliberate offence but your entry above comes across as very arrogant and know-it-all.

When it comes down to origin of the breed rather than the name I think this article suffers from exactly the same problem as many of the other sighthound articles in that breed snobs ascribe great antiquity to the breed based on little real evidence. Yes there are pots and pans and jewellery and heaven knows what else from the middle-east (and elsewhere) which show there were dogs which we would probably recognise as being pretty much identical to modern sighthounds but that doesn't make them Salukis or Azawakh, or Greyhounds or anything else in the modern, western sense.

The idea that there are breeds which have remained 'pure' for 3000 years is at best unlikely and more realistically downright silly. Some owners, or self-appointed commentators at least, seem to get a bit of boost to their egos by seizing on to flimsy historical evidence where the reality is at best debatable.188.29.112.105 (talk) 11:05, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

An external link added
Persian Salukis page in Facebook is an informative web site that covers the history of the breed in the country of origin Iran. from about 10000BCE until today. Since its a non profitable page and it has valuable information collected by a group of international members I thought it would be fine if I add it. the articles in the page comes in both English and Persian languages together. hope you find it interesting.

Netbios (talk) 20:02, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I have only just seen this external link to FaceBook; I have removed it as per WP:ELNO.  SagaciousPhil   -  Chat  12:34, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

External links modified
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Sumerian
Article cites "Sumerian Empire sites" circa 7000-6000 BC. There was no unified "Sumerian" polity at this time (Late Neolithic), and arguably nothing that could be labeled "Sumerian". A better wording would be "Neolithic sites in Mesopotamia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.79.185.99 (talk) 05:27, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Some Editing and the Bible
I have moved some things around to make the article flow better. In doing so, I have not changed any of the article's content. I further recommend that the ancient history of the breed and its ancestors be placed ahead of its modern history in "introduction to the West." As it stands now the first paragraph of the history section takes place much later than the paragraphs that follow it.
 * Agreed, and I support your action in doing it. Someone might re-arrange the History section into some sort of time sequence as well, currently it is a random collection of information that appears to have been provided by different editors over time. Regards, William Harris  •   talk •   08:35, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

Regarding the use in the Bible, in the first place the link is now dead. In the second place, this concerns the singular usage in the Masoretic Text at Proverbs 30:31, which the King James Version translates as "greyhound." The word literally means "loins" or "waist" and indicates an animal that has a narrow waist. Some translators prefer "rooster" at this point, but Strong's Concordance prefers the "greyhound" or "War-charger" (horse). If indeed it is the "greyhound" that is intended by the Hebrew mā·ṯə·na·yim, then commentators like Martin Roper and the BBC are probably correct that the translator does not mean the dog called today the greyhound -- which most dog enthusiasts now believe was not living in the area. The saluqi (saluki) is likely intended. Proverbs 30 was likely written during or after after the Exile; therefore, the reference belongs together with some of the other ancient references to the dog. However, since the (Greek) Septuagint of Prov 30:31 clearly refers to a rooster ("walking around the females boldly"), it may be better to preface the Biblical reference with "If the Bible indeed mentions a breed of dog at Prov 30:31...." The NIV, NASB, and NRSV all translate as "rooster." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.79.177.254 (talk) 15:17, 10 September 2015 (UTC)
 * We are getting into conjecture here and what might have been meant in a document that has undergone a number of translations across time. I believe this breed warrants better editorial quality, so we should stay with facts. Regards, William Harris  •   talk •   08:35, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

Quality of this article
I would like to know on what basis some editor has interpreted the cited pix in this section as being "saluki-like hound"s; they barely look like dogs. William Harris •   talk •   09:50, 8 September 2015 (UTC)


 * The citation for the first sentence shows pictures of something that resembles some sorts of animals of which some might be of dogs, if you use your imagination. I dispute that they, and the picture under this section, represent saluki-like hounds. Additionally, there is evidence that these petroglyphs date back only 4,000 YBP and not the 10,000 as claimed, according to Prehistoric Rock Art in Iran (بحث رده:باستان‌شناسی - ویکی‌پدیا، دانشنامهٔ آزاد at https://fa.wikipedia.org/wiki/). Similarly for the pottery mentioned in the second sentence, plus the Egyptian tombs reference is mentioned further in the section. The third sentence mentions links with the Avesta, Bible and Koran but offers nothing regarding chapter, verse or sutra. The Koran extract makes no mention of saluki-like hounds, it refers to the "hunting animals". Therefore, I am removing these 3 sentences as they do not meet WP:CITE. I have issues with other parts of this section, perhaps editors might like to review their contribution for quality.  William Harris  •   talk •   09:08, 9 September 2015 (UTC) William Harris  •   talk •   09:50, 8 September 2015 (UTC)


 * More on the quality of this article. Regarding the first sentence stating the Saluki being also known as the Royal Dog of Egypt or Persian Greyhound. I have put a citation request against the Persian Greyhound to ascertain from what primary source this has come from - it appears nowhere else on the page. (Was it an archeologist? A historian?) Regarding the Royal Dog of Egypt, do we have any primary source to confirm this name - apart from appearing in a book produced by a photographer of dogs, cats and babies without any citations and which I do not regard as a quality source. (Also, websites that reflect back what they find here on Wikipedia are not primary sources.) Regards, William Harris  •   talk •   09:12, 25 September 2015 (UTC)


 * I have done a review of the History section. Much of what has been removed was uncited legend or conjecture from a certain dog-related website, which has been replicated by other websites until it appears to be authentic. It is not. We need to maintain vigilance against this sort of nonsense creeping back into the article - the breed deserves better. Regards, William Harris  •   talk •   09:59, 1 October 2015 (UTC)


 * I have removed the copy-edit template request that has hung over this article since December 2013. As the article has had the uncited verbiage and legendary claims removed, and the grammar generally flows better, I regard it as being of the same quality as any other dog breed article on Wikipedia - it could do with further improvement but it does not warrant singling out. Regards, William Harris  •   talk •   20:55, 1 October 2015 (UTC)


 * (PS: Regarding the Name section and Salu-ki translated from ancient Sumerian as "plunge to earth". We know that the people of ancient Mesopotamia built mud-brick homes with flat rooves and that they spent time on these watching the stars at night - they were the first astronomers and catalogers of the constellations. A "shooting-star" plunges to earth, and we still use the term today when describing "meteoric speed", which applies to the speed of the Saluki. We have no evidence of this but it is an interesting proposition.) William Harris  •   talk •   23:44, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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Henry IV is not a dog
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/17/Lucas_Cranach_d._%C3%84._042.jpg/100px-Lucas_Cranach_d._%C3%84._042.jpg

This is put on the page as an example of a saluki. But that is not a saluki, that is Henry IV. I'm very confused as to why this is here. 174.227.130.66 (talk) 06:15, 29 December 2017 (UTC)

As an individual with no vested interest in this issue, I whole heartedly agree please fix this. 2600:8807:C10B:12F0:858F:3F22:97FF:49A7 (talk) 06:13, 29 December 2017 (UTC)

OP knows what they're talking about... shameful this was ever put on here...216.186.215.22 (talk) 19:58, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
 * He was obviously not a dog, but the dog in the picture behind him looks an awful lot like a Saluki. Maybe the problem could be cleared up by using the caption to call attention to the dog. White Arabian Filly  Neigh 23:18, 30 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Fixed. SalukiJoe (talk) 14:55, 9 January 2018 (UTC)