Talk:Sam Clovis

What is an economist?
The reference in the article supporting Clovis's credentials as an economist says he has a doctorate in Public Administration. The site Rate My Professors lists him as a professor in the Business Department of Morningside College, Iowa and rates him on seven courses he taught during the decade 2005-2015, namely a mix of business, economics, and math courses. In six of those years, 2009-2014, there was no sign that he'd taught economics, only business and math.

Starting out as an assistant professor of electrical engineering and computer science at MIT, I reluctantly agreed to teach an algebra course (groups, rings, and fields) for engineers, as a foundation for coding theory. Later and more enthusiastically I taught more than a dozen courses in universal algebra and category theory for computer scientists, but no one would call me an algebraist merely on that basis. By the same token I would not have thought to call someone an economist merely on the basis of their having sporadically taught a few economics courses in a business department along with courses in business and math.

Evidence that Clovis has worked somewhere as an economist, published a peer-reviewed article in an economics journal, or is otherwise recognized among economists as one of their own, is surely needed in order to justify Wikipedia's primary designation of him as an "economist". Vaughan Pratt (talk) 19:47, 24 July 2017 (UTC)

More insight into Clovis's views on economic policy can be had at first hand from this video of two fifteen-minute interviews by CNBC chief Washington correspondent John Harwood of the economic policy advisors for the Trump and Clinton campaigns, respectively Sam Clovis and David Kamin. Vaughan Pratt (talk) 16:33, 26 July 2017 (UTC)


 * The sources I'm finding call him a "former tenured economics professor", so I switched "economist" to "academic" in the lede to more accurately reflect the reliable sourcing. Marquardtika (talk) 16:46, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

Radio career
Expand. Wikipietime (talk) 15:11, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

http://politi.co/2vUNYx5 Wikipietime (talk) 15:12, 30 July 2017 (UTC) From ballotpedia; "addition, Clovis hosted the conservative radio show "Impact With Sam Clovis" on KSCJ-AM in Sioux City, Iowa.[5] According to the Sioux City Journal, "Clovis has something of a rock star quality with Siouxland tea party people."[6]"

Senate Run
Expansion ideas for senate run;https://soundcloud.com/theblazeradionetwork/doc-thompson-talks-with-iowa-senate-candidate-sam-clovis

Fair Tax advocate

Any help would be appreciated!

--Wikipietime (talk) 17:50, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

Academic? Where?
This article begins: Samuel H. Clovis Jr. is an academic... Shouldn't that statement be illustrated by showing where Clovis teaches or taught or had recently taught? MaynardClark (talk) 14:01, 1 August 2017 (UTC)


 * It looks like he was most recently a tenured professor of economics at Morningside College. Marquardtika (talk) 14:15, 1 August 2017 (UTC)


 * The mealy-mouthed stress that this article places on Clovis being an "academic" gives the unfortunate impression of attempting to lend credibility to his personal opinions about science. Oliver Milman writing in The Guardian today has made the straightforward point that Clovis "is not a scientist".  (https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/aug/07/usda-climate-change-language-censorship-emails)  Is it appropriate to include a note about this fact in this article?  Samuel Osborne in the Independent has made the same point of clarification (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/donald-trump-sam-clovis-chief-scientist-department-agriculture-race-traitors-progressives-a7874961.html)  And Helena Bottemiller Evich in Politico (http://www.politico.com/story/2017/07/30/usda-sam-clovis-influence-trump-241114)
 * I'll check back later: if no-one can demonstrate why it is not notable that a non-scientist is broadcasting opinions on science and advising the US government on science, I'll add a brief mention in order to dispel the vaguely 'sciencey' flavor that has been injected into his intellectual profile here. Cpaaoi (talk) 02:29, 8 August 2017 (UTC)
 * You don't have to be a scientist to be an "academic". A professor of English or philosophy or history is still an academic. The article already points out that he has no science background, which apparently was required by law for that position. So I don't think one mention of "academic" is out of line - unless it is used to suggest he was qualified for that "chief scientist" position, which he clearly was not. Where is the usage that you think amount to "mealy--mounted stress"? --MelanieN (talk) 02:29, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
 * He has a PhD. He's an academic. Snooganssnoogans (talk) 02:35, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Well, not all PhDs are academics. Some are clinical psychologists, or rocket scientists, or work for the government, or do corporate research. But PhD who is also a tenured, full time professor at a reasonably respectable university is an academic, no question. --MelanieN (talk) 02:41, 3 November 2017 (UTC)


 * Well, he certainly is no scientist. Bachelor of ARTS, Master of BUSINESS, Doctor of Public ADMINISTRATION. Not a scientist from school anyway. Maybe he's an autodidact. Let's look for papers and patents: Promises Unfulfilled: The Suboptimization of Homeland Security National Preparedness, but nothing on crops or pesticides or climate. Nah, X1\, he's a radio host, not a radio designer. Rhadow (talk) 22:09, 5 November 2017 (UTC)

Institute for Homeland Security
Based on this page, the Institute for Homeland Security that Clovis worked for was a government-fund think tank, operated within Analytic Systems Inc. (also known as the ANSER Institute). That page says that as of September 2010, Clovis was a member of the Senior Research Staff (specifically, "Fellow, HSO Directorate". The URL is http://www.homelandsecurity.org/, but a Google search for pages on that site finds only ten. So things have changed since 2010, apparently

I'm puzzling through why Wikipedia article says "Homeland Security Institute, now the Homeland Security Studies and Analysis Institute". That statement is supported by this PDF, which says "In March 2009, DHS established the Homeland Security Studies and Analysis Institute (HSSAI) to replace the Homeland Security Institute (HSI) which served in the same capacity after being established in April 2004." Ignoring the discrepancy in dates (the first-cited source, above, may be wrong), HSSAI seems to be around to at least 2014 - https://web.archive.org/web/20140718051341/http://www.dhs.gov:80/homeland-security-studies-and-analysis-institute-hssai - but that URl now redirects to https://www.dhs.gov/science-and-technology/hsoac (HSOAC)

In any case, there is no longer a website for HSSAI (apparently last referring to itself as HSI - see https://www.uapi.us/programs/237 ). But the parent organization, ANSER, said that the institute continued into 2016 - https://www.anser.org/ansers-hssai-to-support-homeland-security-as-studies-and-analysis-ffrdc-into-2016/ - does it still exist? -- John Broughton (♫♫) 04:01, 11 September 2017 (UTC)

The lede should note his controversial views
After all, these controversial views put his nomination in jeopardy. At the very least, these views, coupled with his complete lack of qualifications, make his choice for the position notaworthy. Snooganssnoogans (talk) 12:34, 2 November 2017 (UTC)

Agreed. His BLP should be totally reflective of the public and political life he has sought. --Wikipietime (talk) 15:42, 2 November 2017 (UTC)
 * His "controversial views" are spelled out in detail in the "Views" section and elsewhere. They do not need to be in the lede. In fact if those views were the only things standing in his way, he would almost certainly have been approved for the nomination, in a party-line vote. And if not, the problem would have been his lack of qualifications and failure to meet the statutory requirements for the position. But it was the connection to the Mueller investigation that shot down his nomination. --MelanieN (talk) 02:33, 3 November 2017 (UTC)

Mathew whitaker
Needs inclusion Wikipietime (talk) 03:17, 8 November 2018 (UTC)