Talk:Sam Houser

Sam Housers Nationality
Sam Houser is British born and raised to British parents. Someone thought it would be a good idea to try and make out he's 'somewhat American' by adding he was British 'by birth but is now American' Is that realy relevant...? lol

No other person on Wikipedia gets the title of 'American' just because they work or move to America...so why should this be any different?--Boxerboi31 (talk) 18:09, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

Requested edit
Sam Houser was born in Britain to British parents and raised in Britain for most of his 30 odd years. Yet because he know works and has duel citerzen ship with America somone thinks it's a good idea to add Sam is "British born but now American" to the article. This is not relevant what so ever and should be removed. If i at 31yrs of age now move to America or go over to work in America it doesn't make me American, i'd still be British!

No other person on Wikipedia has been given the title of 'American' just because they moved to or work in America, so why should Sam be any different?--Boxerboi31 (talk) 18:51, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
 * The article is not claiming that Houser should be considered American because he lives and works in America; it merely says that he became a naturalised American citizen in 2007, which appears to be factually correct. The article clearly states Britain as his place of birth. --McGeddon (talk) 19:49, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

request edit
Hello. I noticed that Sams article says "he became an American citizen in 2007." twice. Did it even need it once let alone twice?

It says it once at the top, then again under 'Early Life'. Has it even added anything to the article in the first place? I've not noticed anyone else who's moved countries to have it.


 * As per McGeddon's comments above. The article is factually correct. He was born in Britain, is now a full American citizen and as per Wikipedia Biography we should not impose a nationality upon him when he hasn't explicitly stated what he defines himself as. The naturalization text is repeated because the lead section is a summary of the rest of the article, hence it appears twice in the article. - X201 (talk) 12:25, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

X201, To be fair that's a bit ludicrous to say "we should not impose a nationality upon him when he hasn't explicitly stated what he defines himself as" His parents are British, he was born in Britain, raised in Britain, educated in Britain, and lived in Britain for the first 36 years of his life. You don't get the choice to determine what your nationality you are by that point, he's British like it or not.

It's a bit like me saying not to call me a woman because i haven't yet decided what i want to be after 22 years! I'm a woman and that's it.

Reliable source where Dan describes him and his brother as British.

"ROCKSTAR: “GRAND THEFT AUTO IS A BRITISH RESPONSE TO AMERICANA”

"The games have always been, in some ways, a British response to Americana, rather than America.” Houser was one of five British developers who founded Rockstar in 1998."

http://www.fmvmagazine.com/?p=12918

Sam Houser saying he's British.

"And because we're all British, we all love observing certain American excesses"

http://uk.ign.com/articles/2001/09/10/rockstars-sam-houser-mouths-off

Dan Houser saying he's English.

"Dan Houser: I'm English, "

http://kotaku.com/5907413/the-max-payne--comics-will-explain-why-rockstars-hard+boiled-cop-is-so-messed+up

Sam Houser saying that he's a British person.

"As a British person,"

http://retroroundup.1up.com/features/sam-houser-speaks?pager.offset=2

Wiki Wobot (talk) 14:09, 4 May 2013 (UTC)


 * No need for the aggression. If you had just posted these sources at the start of the week they would have been added to the article. The statement about stating someone's nationality is Wikipedia policy, if you think it is wrong you need to talk to the people who created it, not rant at me. The information will be added to the article later. - X201 (talk) 15:47, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

When later? *looks around* — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.197.195.65 (talk) 22:13, 5 May 2013 (UTC)


 * When I've contacted the people who do biographies on Wikipedia for advice on the correct way to proceed. Feel free to contact them yourself if you feel this is very urgent. - X201 (talk) 12:59, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

No need to worry guys. With a little help from the Wikipedia help/webchat community I've done it all for you.--Kandyce 2013 (talk) 15:31, 6 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Kandyce, you added the references incorrectly. You're supposed to put the author of the reference's name in the reference, not your own. Have fixed. If you want to, its perfectly acceptable to put just the URL between the REF tags, there are automated tools that can sort out the rest. - X201 (talk) 07:49, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

British or English
I'm compiling the request for clarification from WP:BIO that I mentioned above and I noticed that the refs for Sam only say British, not English so I've changed that to suit the refs. Of the links in the previous section only the ones for Dan say English. - X201 (talk) 08:07, 7 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Hi X201. I don't suppose it really matters to be honest. His brother Dan says he's English and Sam says he's British. Their parents are English and they grew up in England etc etc. English people call themselves English or British.--Kandyce 2013 (talk) 20:50, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm only bothered about it from an article point of view. I just want to get it done correctly, with sources, to prevent future problems. - X201 (talk) 08:12, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Even Irish people say the British when referring specifically to the English, even though it would exclude Scots and Northern Irish. It's because British contains the idea also of the British Empire and that history, like it or not. Grammatically, it's incorrect though (here I suspect too that fans of the exciting but violent videogame franchise--which really has changed the face of the industry--like the historical connotation), especially in a place like Wikipedia, with American, Malaysian, and other readers to whom such subtleties would be lost so changing.--96.246.181.83 (talk) 13:58, 16 March 2014 (UTC)

Sam's Nationality.
Hi all. I see we are back to the patriotic vandalism of the past. I had sorted and solved this problem with the Wikipedia team a few years back. But it has started being vandalised again.

Sam was born in England, raised in England, spent the first 36yrs of his life in England. Still does spend time in England. He even refers to himself as English and British. So why are people changing his nationality to American again all of a sudden?

Reliable source where Sam and Dan describe themselves as British.

"ROCKSTAR: “GRAND THEFT AUTO IS A BRITISH RESPONSE TO AMERICANA” "The games have always been, in some ways, a British response to Americana, rather than America.” Houser was one of five British developers who founded Rockstar in 1998." http://www.fmvmagazine.com/?p=12918

Sam Houser saying he's British. "And because we're all British, we all love observing certain American excesses" http://uk.ign.com/articles/2001/09/10/rockstars-sam-houser-mouths-off

Dan Houser saying he's English. "Dan Houser: I'm English, " http://kotaku.com/5907413/the-max-payne--comics-will-explain-why-rockstars-hard+boiled-cop-is-so-messed+up

Sam Houser saying that he's a British person. "As a British person," http://retroroundup.1up.com/features/sam-houser-speaks?pager.offset=2

--Kandyce 2013 (talk) 00:44, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Simply: When one seeks and gains citizenship in a new country, one's nationality changes to that of the country where one is a citizen. The place one is born does not, but that is not what nationality means (click to see).  Houser's birthplace is already listed as London. As for why he chose to become an American citizen, you'd have to ask him.  But he did, and our article here will reflect that fact.  General Ization   Talk   00:49, 16 September 2015 (UTC)


 * But it doesn't. They have dual citizenship. And he also has a home and resides in the UK. A few years ago, there was a bit of an edit war on the page. I took it to the Wikipedia team to be discussed. It went from British, to Nationalized American. Then the Wiki team voted on British. And it stayed that way until just recently. I don't see why British has to be removed from the nationality. Seems childish.  --Kandyce 2013 (talk) 01:15, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
 * , Wikipedia is based on reliable sources. If a source says that Houser became an American citizen, and no other publication afterward says that he is British, then one cannot say that he has dual citizenship. If there are sources that mention his British status post-2007, then by all means update the page to indicate that he holds dual-citizenship. Primefac (talk) 01:24, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
 * To become a naturalized American citizen, as Houser himself states he has done here, one must renounce any prior citizenship. There are only a limited number of circumstances where one can claim dual citizenship (e.g., birth on foreign soil to American parents), and there is no evidence that any of them apply to Houser.  You will need to provide evidence that he has such status before it can be reported here.  General Ization   Talk   01:41, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
 * By the way, all of the quotes from and about Sam that you reproduced above date from prior to 2007, except the first, which talks in 2012 about Houser as a British developer in 1998. Prior to 2007, Houser was a British national.  As for Dan, he still is, but that doesn't mean that Sam is.  General Ization   Talk   01:50, 16 September 2015 (UTC)


 * He is a Nationalized American. Which means."The U.S. Supreme Court ruled that a naturalized U.S. citizen has the right to return to his native country and to resume his former citizenship, and also to remain a U.S. citizen even if he never returns to the United States. Although naturalizing citizens are required to undertake an oath renouncing previous allegiances, the oath has never been enforced to require the actual termination of original citizenship." So therefore he is still a British citizen too.


 * The sources to show that he also still resides in the UK are quite difficult as they were on TV. Both Houser brothers appear on UK TV from time to time. But whenever they are on TV, they always like to emphasize that they are British, that the Grand Theft Auto games are British etc. As you can see from this video. When they won an award Dan Houser says we won "Best BRITISH game" He put emphasis on the word British. They often do as sources above also show. This video of them is from 2014. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_R_XOZKiHU&list=PLby-UMvsblGbUPKkbur4cXmT0PKYn8WNU
 * --Kandyce 2013 (talk) 01:56, 16 September 2015 (UTC)


 * The GTA games are British; he is of British birth and, in that sense, he will always be able to describe himself as British; no one is disputing any of this. Yes, he could renounce his American citizenship and once again take up British citizenship, but that is immaterial; there is no evidence that he has done so, while there is plenty of evidence that he became in 2007 and is currently an American citizen. You really need to accept that he is an American citizen, and that our article here will reflect that his nationality is American, because that is the fact as reflected by reliable sources cited in the article.  General Ization  Talk   02:05, 16 September 2015 (UTC)


 * The fact is. Although naturalizing citizens are required to undertake an oath renouncing previous allegiances, the oath has never been enforced to require the actual termination of original citizenship." So therefore he is still a British citizen too. --Kandyce 2013 (talk) 02:08, 16 September 2015 (UTC)


 * You are quibbling over a legality. This article is not about the prosecution of US immigration law. I would expect Sam Houser to be the final authority on how we should describe him here: "I'm American. It's official."  General Ization   Talk   02:16, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

But he is also still British. He keeps saying he is British .Although naturalizing citizens are required to undertake an oath renouncing previous allegiances, the oath has never been enforced to require the actual termination of original citizenship." So therefore, by law, he is still a British citizen to, whether he said "It's official i'm now American" or not. The law states that he is still a British and American citizen. Wikipedia is supposed to be factual as you said. And the facts are, he is a British American citizen. --Kandyce 2013 (talk) 02:33, 16 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Enough. If you change his nationality again, your edit will be reverted. If you have a problem with that, the Biographies of living persons noticeboard is that-a-way.  General Ization   Talk   02:37, 16 September 2015 (UTC)


 * But we have to get the facts right, no? Both brothers appear on British TV. I will record and upload the next time they are on. You cannot argue with facts straight from the horses mouths. There was a documentary about the brothers and Grand Theft Auto on TV tonight actually. That may some shed some light. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kandyce 2013 (talk • contribs) 02:48, 16 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Here is some useful inforamation on the subject. British actress Emily Blunt recently became an American citizen. “I became an American citizen recently and that night we decided to watch the Republican debate, and I thought this was a terrible mistake. What have I done?” she said.
 * “I’m not sure I’m entirely thrilled about it. People ask me about the whole day. They were like, ‘Oh it must have been so emotional.’ I was like, ‘It wasn’t, it was sad. I like being British.’”
 * “I had to renounce my Queen!” she added.
 * “The thing that’s weird is I do get to keep both my British citizenship and this, but you have to renounce her."


 * So British people do infact get to keep their British citerzenship. So Sam is a British American citizen. https://uk.movies.yahoo.com/post/129206689546/rude-emily-blunt-should-leave-hollywood-says  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.29.41.214 (talk) 12:22, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
 * As you were previously advised, the correct venue to pursue this (our having come to an impasse here) is Biographies of living persons noticeboard. If you continue to assert the change here against the existing consensus, you will very likely be blocked for edit warring.  General Ization   Talk   13:54, 16 September 2015 (UTC)


 * I haven't made any changes to the article at all. All i have done is added some info to this talk page and put the article up for dispute resolution. It was inevitable that changing his nationality to American would anger some people from the UK. The reason being is that America often tries to claim credit for non American things. Like, the allied victory of WW2, the creation of the internet, car, lightbulb and so on and so fourth. The creator of the telephone, Alexander Graham Bell is another one. British inventor that invented the telephone and became an American citizen. America attemtps to claim Alexander and the invention of the telephone as American. They twist and manipulate in an attempt to steal credit and it doesn't go down well with other countries. Last night there was a documentary about the Houser brothers and the Grand Theft Auto franchise. It angered Rockstar North and its developers (Rockstar North is in Scotland and creates the franchise) that the documentary focused on time in New York rather than in Scotland where the game was invented, created and still created today. They get very funny and patriotic over it all. So it was inevitable that some kind of edit war would take place once his nationality was changed to American only.  This is why i mention that British citizens that become American still keep their British citizenship as has been stated above by others. They are  British/American citizens. It wouldn't hurt anyone to have British/American and would solve the problem. It is also factual information.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.29.38.199 (talk) 16:23, 16 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Please explain, if that is what you are advocating, why you have persistently changed the lead and the infobox of this article to state that Houser is a British (or English) national, not English- (or British-) American.  Your words and your actions do not match.   General Ization   Talk   20:36, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

I've never made changes to the article at all!! Only offered info on this talk page. There seems to be several people discussing the matter. And there are many other people in the world. Cheers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.40.43.45 (talk) 12:04, 17 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Sorry, but I find that very doubtful. Nevertheless, the advice stands.  General Ization   Talk   13:54, 17 September 2015 (UTC)


 * There is a very simple solution to this. Other Wikipedia pages have a Nationality and a Citizenship section added to the right of the page. Example:Actress Emily Blunt has Nationality-British then Citizenship-British/American. There seems to be no problems with that. This would solve the argument I feel. Agreed?--Jenny Wittle (talk) 15:15, 17 September 2015 (UTC)


 * I think that's a good idea Jenny. Add a Citezenship section. Cheers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.29.42.225 (talk) 00:38, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

I think the proposal of adding a Citizenship section under Nationality is a good idea. It would be more accurate and cater for everyone. --Kandyce 2013 (talk) 13:29, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

stupid americum editors just stop trying to changing his nationally. when he says He is British not American. so stop you are not him. He was born and rared in England educated in the world's best university University Oxford in England spent his whole life in England — Preceding unsigned comment added by 14.207.98.40 (talk) 08:49, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

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