Talk:Sam Houston Math, Science, and Technology Center

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from VfD:

Non-notable School Dsmdgold 12:43, 3 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete Non-notable. jni 13:43, 3 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Erm, It's rather OLD to be non-notable, don't you think? WhisperToMe 15:45, 3 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Personally... no. Schools established in the United States before 1800 might be notable for age alone, and schools established before 1700 certainly would be, but 1878? Schools that old are a dime a dozen. I don't even think I'd buy "oldest school in Houston" as making the school notable if there were nothing else notable about it. [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith (talk)]] 16:02, 3 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete unless greatly improved and notability established before VfD expiration. Low-quality article, BEEFSTEW points A, B, D = 3/10. [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith (talk)]] 15:53, 3 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep: a clear case by my criteria, as it has a long history and 2700 students. One can imagine how many people must've graduated from it over time. Everyking 13:33, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * What are your criteria? Are there any high school articles that you think should be deleted? As nearly as I can tell, you've voted to keep all of them. If, like Anthony, you believe all high schools are intrinsically notable, please say so. [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith (talk)]] 10:47, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Well, the standard I'm going by now is that if a school has at least 2000 students and has a history of some reasonably substantial length (a couple of decades is nice), it's a clear keep. No, I don't believe all high schools are intrinsically notable, but I believe institutions are made notable if enough people have a strong association with them. Everyking 20:44, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * By that standard, we'd best be listing every prison and hospital here as well. And maybe every church and supermarket as well. Denni &#9775; 01:02, 2004 Oct 9 (UTC)
 * Last time I checked, prisons, hospitals, churches, and supermarkets, were not schools, so they wouldn't pass the standard of being "a school has at least 2000 students and has a history of some reasonably substantial length". anthony (see warning) 03:17, 9 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Did I say that? I don't think I did. The idea was that a strong association for a large number of people establishes notability. Prisons would generally qualify, some hospitals might, churches generally wouldn't unless they were exceptionally large or had a notable history, supermarkets would never qualify unless something quite notable happened there. What establishes notability for you, by the way? What criteria aside from importance to a substantial number of people do you use to determine such things? Everyking 16:33, 9 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. Strongly disagree with Everyking that that establishes notability. Schools have a high bar to meet to be notable. This fails. --Improv 21:40, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep I fail to understand the bias against high schools. We keep lots of idiotic articles.  We just kept two incoherent stub articles on Mexico city bus stops.  We just kept GNAA.  But for some reason a high school is by default booted.  What's the harm in high school articles?  They might actually grow into something useful. Wolfman 02:14, 5 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. Yes, it's true this High School has a long history, different names over the years, etc.  However, my alma mater can say the same thing, and IT isn't found on the Wikipedia. . . nor should it be (it would only be known to locals).  So, non-notable (contrary to Everyking's assertions) - unless the school is known outside of its local area for things of note, I believe it's prudent to delete.  Perhaps we could create a new Internet site called Schoolpedia and have all of these school articles there, eh?  (smile)  --avnative 02:44, Oct 5, 2004 (UTC)
 * Re: Schoolopedia, I plan to include high schools in Wikiteer. anthony (see warning) 21:52, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * OK, and let's get the WatchtheWikiWatch Foundation to fund and oversee this vast expansion of out of control school articles appearing out of bored out of their wits adolescent minds. Let's see, perhaps Mickey Mouse could lead the Wikicheer each time a new school is added, and of course each school's library would have a Wikiteria where students would overindulge in Wikiknowledge.  Those who become addicted to the Wiki way of schooling would attend Wikiholics Anonymous, where their Wiki scores would be calculated each meeting.  Of course one of the mandatory courses at schools listed in Schoolpedia/the Wikiteer would be "How to make VfD articles" as well as the ever popular "How to be a really annoying troll."  Then, due to the ever-increasing benevolence and guidance of the WatchtheWikiWatch Foundation, we could all retire from duty on this board!!!  --avnative 03:17, Oct 8, 2004 (UTC)
 * If the Mediawiki Foundation chooses not to fund Wikiteer, I'll fund it myself. Your ideas on what we should do with Wikiteer don't interest me, though. anthony (see warning) 03:08, 9 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Weak keep -- there's this bit on the high school's page that, if expanded upon, might lend the school some notability IMO: Sam Houston [High] has Texas' oldest high school newspaper, the Aegis, started in 1889. In addition, the world's first girls' Military Drill Squad, formerly known as the Black Battalion, but now called the Tigerettes, originated at our school. It's not much, but it's something. - KeithTyler 17:25, Oct 5, 2004 (UTC) But nobody wants to do that work -- they just want to have tens of thousands of high school articles that have nothing different between them and no potential for notability. Lazy, cowardly, and presumptuous. - 19:22, Oct 8, 2004 (UTC)
 * There are plenty of people willing to do that work. We just don't want to be threatened into doing it, especially not when we can wind up doing all the work and then still have the article deleted. anthony (see warning) 03:15, 9 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Neutral as it stands: if someone cares, please improve it before VfD deadline. I can imagine it being notable, but I can't tell from reading it. -- Jmabel 01:01, Oct 6, 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep. High school. anthony (see warning) 22:03, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep. Are we going on witch-hunts for all the high schools? Mike H 03:22, Oct 8, 2004 (UTC)
 * Weak keep: mark it down: I voted keep on a high school.  The reason is that this one is so massive, so old, and so central to the city, and so famous outside of Houston, that it qualifies as notable.  That said, it needs an article that emphasizes its oddity and newsworthiness and notability, rather than just a "this is a school" article.  Encyclopedias write about schools in a different way from school guides or local government. Geogre 14:04, 8 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep. Intrigue 17:40, 8 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. There is absolutely nothing special in this article that makes this school and different from any of the tens of thousands of high schools that exist throughout North America. Therefore it is non-notable. (And since none of the inclusionists want to bother to add anything notable to this article, then even they must concede that it isn't notable. But to some people, something is "notable" simply by existing. Of course, that definition makes the word "notable" absolutely meaningless.) - KeithTyler 19:22, Oct 8, 2004 (UTC)
 * The word "notable" means "worthy of note". Specifically, when I say that all schools are notable, I'm saying that they are all worthy of note in Wikipedia.  The "tens of thousands of high schools that exist throughout North America" are all notable. After all, Wikipedia is not paper, so there's plenty of room for every school in it.  There's nothing meaningless about that statement. anthony (see warning) 03:08, 9 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a school directory. I know Wikipedia is not paper, but unless the abovementioned can fork out $5, 000 or so to maintain the byte-space and time needed to keep pointless articles started by teen enthusiasts, I rule for deletion of most non-notable high schools.  This one I don't know, but there are at least a million schools of all kinds around the world. Mandel 08:47, Oct 10, 2004 (UTC)
 * The disk space would be a lot less than $5,000. More like $5.  I'll gladly donate $10 to the Foundation if we adopt a policy to keep all articles on schools. Let's see.  1 million schools times 1 K = 1 gig.  The cost is closer to $.50, but I'll still donate $10 if we keep them. As for time, when we stop listing these for deletion, we'll save more time than we lose.  In fact, we'll save disk space, too, since the entire history of these discussions takes up more room than the article itself (which is kept on disk anyway).  This is a completely vacuous argument for non-notability.  anthony (see warning) 16:48, 10 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * The irony there is that you're defending the articles as worthwhile by pointing out how small and scant they are. And BTW, high schools don't belong in a gazeteer, either. - KeithTyler 18:20, Oct 10, 2004 (UTC)
 * But anthony (see warning) is perfectly correct about the cost of disk space not being at issue here. Oddly enough I came up with almost the same number Anthony did, via a very different route. The town of Norwood has a population of forty thousand and has a high school, a junior high school, and six elementary schools. Projecting to a total U. S. population of three hundred million, there are less than ten thousand high schools in the U. S. A nice, ten-paragraph, high-quality article is about 5K. Include a handsome 30K .jpg of the school, and still have less than 50K for the article. In other words, one gig will take care of a million two-paragraph articles or ten thousand ten-paragraph-articles-with-jpg. Either way, I have already contributed enough to cover that during the last fund drive. I hope anthony (see warning) did, I hope Mandel did, and I hope you did. The issue here is: which is more likely to contribute to the general health of Wikipedia as a whole: deleting or retaining stubby, low-quality, school articles contributed by editors who seem to have no obvious commitment to their topic. I've phrased it in a way that makes my opinion clear, but the answer is not trivially obvious, and has nothing to do with the cost of disk space. (I think Wikipedia's disk space costs are negligible compared to bandwidth and server costs.) [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith (talk)]] 20:55, 10 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * I'm not defending the articles by saying they're small and scant, I'm defending them by saying that disk space is cheap. 1K articles are by no means small, and a million of them is hardly scant.  Besides, I gave myself a 20 to 1 margin of error, and assumed that every single school in the world would actually be made.  And besides, like I said, this assumes that deletion uses up zero space (it doesn't, in fact it probably uses up more space when you consider the VfD history).  As for whether or not high schools "belong" in a gazetteer, I admit that traditionally they are not included.  But saying that they are not traditionally included is not the same as saying they don't belong there.  I'm willing to hear arguments against having high schools in a gazetteer, but so far I have heard none.  Admittedly, coverage of high schools in a gazetteer would be limited to geographic information (points and polygons) and maybe a bit of demographic information (number of students), but I think this is quite appropriate for a gazetteer.  My proposal for Wikiteer will include everything that has a fixed geographic location: schools, hospitals, jails, even fire hydrants if I can find a source for their locations.  As for whether or not the issue is what we should do with low quality school articles, I appreciate that that's the issue some have taken, but a number of people have also taken up the issue of whether or not to include even high quality articles about a lesser known school.  In the case of this school I think the article is of sufficient quality that we are losing far too much information to justify deletion.  Of course, I would argue that we gain far too little by deletion in any case, and that little that we gain could be gotten without losing any information, if we just put a little bit of thought into things. anthony (see warning) 21:40, 10 Oct 2004 (UTC)

end moved discussion

Worst school in the state
Isnt this school the worst in the state. They have failed the taks test more then any other school in history. The students have also suffered in their futures. I have seen the stats on the overall average of the general income of students from the school from years 1989-2006. The average income these students make from their jobs is $27,487 a year.

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