Talk:Sam Manekshaw

Iranian or Indian?
-Sam Manekshaw is a Parsi from India. I thought Parsis usually consider themselves Persian. Thats what I read in the article on Freddie Mercury. -

Parsis have been in India since 12 centuries and have assimilated into general Indian population. Even their language is Gujarati which is Indian. See Parsi people article. Theres no way you can call a Parsi and Iranian, its akin to calling an American whose ancestors landed in New England in 1600's an Englishman! अमेय आर्यन DaBroodey 06:41, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

I have removed the unnecessary "which is mainly honorary" from the paragraph.Bharatveer 16:11, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Gen.Manekshaw was the first to get the rank of FM in '73. Cariappa got it in '83.Bharatveer 08:37, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

There is a reference in this article to Sam going to Burma in WW2 with 12 Frontier Force Rifles. In WW2 the Frontier Force Rifles had the regimental number 13 and the Frontier Force Regiment were regiment number 12. So the reference I believe should be to 12 Frontier Force Regiment or 13 Frontier Force Rifles - but I don't know which because I don't know which he was with! Certainly both the FF Rifles and FF Regiment had battalions in Burma. Kirrages 19:39, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Since his "home" batallion was originally 9/12 FFReg I see this was part of 80 Brigade, part of 20 Div which was part of the 14th Army. So I guess the reference to FFRifles rather than FFReg is probably an error. Kirrages 23:06, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Death?
Is Manekshaw alive?.. I guess not... There is no mention of how he died... Strange... Leningrad


 * Your guess is the thing that is strange here. Bharatveer 12:31, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Biography assessment rating comment
The article may be improved by following the WikiProject Biography 11 easy steps to producing at least a B article. -- Sdsouza 20:31, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

harry love india officer —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.70.201.39 (talk) 10:51, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Capitals
The use of capitals in this article was hopeless. Obviously it wasn't the work of only one person (too inconsistent for that!). Ordinary words like captain as the name of a rank rather than with a name in a title do not take a capital. "He was a captain in the army and served with my friend Captain Maneshaw". Phrases such as "army plans", "military plans" should not be given capitals. See the article Bernard Montgomery for something approaching a sane use of capitals. Read, learn, and inwardly digest. Jagdfeld (talk) 10:45, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Burial in Ooty?
Is this correct? Both he and his wife were Parsis. Final repose is usually at the Towers of Silence, not underground. Jellytussle (talk) 11:55, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Buried, see cited Times of India article. --Bejnar (talk) 18:54, 7 April 2014 (UTC)

The Economist
His obits in this magazine said he was linked to bizarre allegations, what are they? July 5th 2008 page 95 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 146.187.151.49 (talk) 17:38, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Small edits
Made some grammmatical and format related edits to the quotes section. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Barnikel (talk • contribs) 04:59, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Gohar Ayubs claim
In May 2007, Gohar Ayub Khan claimed that retired Indian Army Field Marshal Sam Manekshaw had sold some of Indian Army secrets to Pakistan during the Indo-Pakistani War of 1965 for 20,000 rupees, but his accusations were dismissed by the Indian defence establishment. I have added the above to this article because it is mentioned on Gohar Ayub page.Wikitanoli (talk) 20:18, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

Incomplete sentence
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Manekshaw#Post-independence In the section titled 'Post-independence'(link above), the fifth line reads "...capturing Domel and Muzaffarabad. The following day, the ruler of the princely state of Jammu and Kashmir, Maharaja Hari Singh. On 25 October,..." The sentence does not make sense. Can someone fix it? 14.139.38.140 (talk) 08:49, 26 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Not totally sure if what I've added is correct but it is in line with what's written in Jammu and Kashmir.--regentspark (comment) 15:19, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

Incorrect Pension Claims?
It is stated in the article that our dear Sam Bahadur's pension arrears were held for a long time and paid to him only at the intervention of APJ Abdul Kalam, shortly before he died.

However this Quint article seems to claim that his family denied this claim. Link: https://www.thequint.com/news/webqoof/gaurav-aryas-claims-about-army-sam-manekshaws-pensions-are-fake-fact-check

At the same time this article by an officer, Lt Gen SK Sinha, who knew and served with him, claims he discussed the matter with him before he died. Link: http://www.indiandefencereview.com/spotlights/the-making-of-a-field-marshall/  (corrected the link)

All other sources seem to be just sensationalised retellings; that are just echoing the story with no sources or fact checking.

I have great respect for both gentlemen, who have served India well in difficult times and deserve every accolade bestowed on them. I have had the great honor of meeting APJ Abdul Kalam while he was president, and he was every bit as impressive as all the stories told about him. The story narrated on the basis on this point on pension arrears is also inspirational, no less because it is claimed in some stories that Sam donated it to the Army Relief Fund.

Regardless of my feelings for either of these iconic figures, our duty to the truth stands higher. Neither would have wanted such a thing to be said falsely of them. Their legacy does not need to besmirched with falsehoods. While I will try to find more corroborating sources...I must admit, I am no expert. If there are fact checkers here who could help verify the veracity of this claim, we will have done their memory a service either way. Shard7 (talk) 19:09, 22 October 2021 (UTC)

Inclusion of 'Awards' & 'Dates of Rank' section
There has been a lot of edit reversion for this article. The topic of contention is whether the 'Awards' and 'Dates of Rank' sections should be included here. @Arygup05 and @Silver Pavilion support this inclusion, both are frequent contributors to India related & Indian military history articles. On the other hand, @Zawed and @Ian Rose support the removal of these sections, as the dates of rank are already mentioned in the body, and adding them at the end lengthens the article unnecessary; and because the 3 main awards (Padma Bhushan + Vibhushan, Military Cross) are already mentioned in the body, the other awards are not too significant to warrant a whole section, the sources and citations for them also can't be found. I support the latter view, and I believe any further discussion should take place here, instead of continuous edits & reverts. Please also note that the article is at FAR, and edit warring distracts from the review process. Matarisvan (talk) 09:54, 18 February 2024 (UTC)


 * Edit wars are in fact a bar to achieving GA and FA status. Editors are also welcome to participate in the FA review process, if this is easier than running two separate discussions. Jim Killock (talk) 10:48, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Hi!
 * The fact that FM Sam Manekshaw was decorated with 18 Medals and honours by 1970's made him an extraordinary and one the most decorated officers of his own time. Also, all the awards and honours of the other various officers including chiefs and other officers have always been mentioned. All the awards must be showcased on the page, because all the medals have the unparalleled value.
 * Regards Arygup05 (talk) 12:18, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
 * That's unfortunately not an argument from WP policy, but from your understandable opinion. Please bear in mind that @Matarisvan is trying to ensure WP policy compliance so the article can be featured internationally on WP's front page. Unless it's clear that WP policy says the information should be included, this would be a reason to prevent the article getting the attention I am sure you would want it to get. Jim Killock (talk) 12:23, 18 February 2024 (UTC)