Talk:Sam Simon/GA1

GA Review
The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.''

Reviewer: TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 03:51, 17 August 2011 (UTC)


 * I will review this article since I have created so many poker player articles and TV/movie producer navboxes this year.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 03:51, 17 August 2011 (UTC)


 * This guy needs his own writer/creator/producer/director works template. --TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 17:27, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Done Gran2 19:15, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I've also added in mention of Shaping Up, Sibs and Phenom. Three things my brain told me I had already done, but clearly hadn't. Gran2 20:42, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
 * What about a format like Mark Burnett or Lorne Michaels. Those templates are controversial for producers and creators, but I like 'em. Your choice.  Just suggesting.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 21:06, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Please acknowledge that you have given this one some thought.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 15:26, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I gave it some thought and I decided I wasn't going to do it. Gran2 15:49, 18 August 2011 (UTC)


 * WP:LEAD
 * The final one-sentence one-line paragraph needs to be expanded or merged. --TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 17:25, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Done Gran2 19:15, 17 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Early life
 * Does the Stanford newspaper have a name and a link? --TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 17:29, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I'd assume it would be the Stanford Chaparral, but the source doesn't specify and I can't find anything which does. Gran2 19:15, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I can't believe that the Stanford Chaparral or whichever newspaper doesn't claim as an alum some guy making tens of millions of dollars a year. The Chaparral claims Josh Weinstein pretty vigorously.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 21:23, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

I just don't see that as necessary and think it looks clunky, out of place and overdetailed. I'll put years ranges after the seasons, but I personally think that suffices for explaining when things happened. Gran2 22:59, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Early career
 * I would like to see years for shows and either episode date or number for episodes, both in following paranethesis. It is hard for the reader to figure out what happened when. --TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 17:35, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Would listing the year range for the shows suffice? Or the year for each episode? If not, I'll put the specific airdate for each episode, but that seems like overdetailed cluttering to me. Gran2 19:15, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Let's start with this change :
 * "For The Simpsons, Simon served alongside Matt Groening (who conceived the show and the five main characters) and Brooks as showrunner for the show's first and second seasons, and was creative supervisor for the first four seasons." --->
 * "For The Simpsons, Simon served alongside Matt Groening (who conceived the show and the five main characters) and Brooks as showrunner for the show's 1989–90 first and 1990–91 second seasons, and was creative supervisor for the first four seasons."--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 21:36, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I can't find the first links for season three and four, but try the same.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 21:36, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Then let's try the following:
 * Simon was credited with co-writing the season one episodes "The Telltale Head", "The Crepes of Wrath", and the season finale "Some Enchanted Evening".--->
 * Simon was credited with co-writing the season one February 25 eighth episode "The Telltale Head", April 15 eleventh episode "The Crepes of Wrath", and the season finale May 13 thirteenth episode "Some Enchanted Evening". — Preceding unsigned comment added by TonyTheTiger (talk • contribs) 21:58, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I understand your argument for the second type of correction but not for the first. --TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 11:27, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I've put the years in brackets after the seasons, rather than in front. I'll link the years to the US schedule pages. Gran2 12:07, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
 * What is going on with this?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 15:25, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I decided that linking to the schedule pages was unnecessary. Gran2 15:49, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
 * On second thoughts, that's a stupid idea. They are now linked. Gran2 17:36, 18 August 2011 (UTC)


 * The Simpsons
 * Link seasons like Season one and such, since they have such great articles.
 * I think they are all linked at their first mention. Gran2 19:15, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Put the season in front of all of the first four seasons like I mentioned above.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 22:09, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Also add episode detail as above. --TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 17:46, 17 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Subsequent television work
 * Last Words should have a year in front of it, IMO.
 * Done. Gran2 22:59, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Friends should be followed by a linked season x. --TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 22:19, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Done. Gran2 23:42, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
 * break out the awards paragraph and expand it into a full section with some details. --TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 22:21, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Done. Gran2 23:42, 17 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Other ventures
 * He was named 2004 World Boxing Manager of the Year needs an organization like Ring Magazine.
 * The source doesn't mention one and I can't find anything that does. Gran2 22:59, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
 * For that fact, the current source is a WP:SPS. Without supporting sources, I think it should be removed.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 05:31, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Done. Gran2 14:15, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Fully itemize his in the money finishes. (E.g. see David Baker (poker player, born c. 1970s) for what I mean) --TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 22:31, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
 * You mean list each event he won money in with his placing and winnings? I don't understand exactly what you mean. As he isn't a pro I decided merely summarizing his winnings and WSOP record would suffice, to avoid overdetailing fairly trivial info. I don't know. Gran2 22:59, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
 * The following phrase tells the reader how well he did and at what: "At the 817-player $5,000 2011 Triple Chance No-Limit Hold’em Event 50 Bakes placed 32nd for a prize of $21,311". "he finished 329th for a $39,445 payday" and "he won the 2009 L.A. Poker Open" are less informative to me.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 23:55, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
 * It just seems like trivial overdetailing to me. But maybe that's because I don't care about poker. I'll add them all in if you really think it's necessary, but I don't. Gran2 10:08, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Please--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 11:17, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Also, link to 2007 World Series of Poker and 2011 World Series of Poker. --TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 11:24, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Right, I think I've done what you wanted. Gran2 12:07, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Wow 6 WSOP in the money (poker) finishes should be in the lead along with nine Emmys. 6 ITMS probably also deserves a secondary infobox.  I would also add this to the external links. You might want to make poker its own section now that I realize how much he has done.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 12:49, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
 * For all the poker players I have done, I have added four external links for Hendon Mob, WSOP, Bluff mag and Card Player (see the poker player I showed you above).--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 12:58, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I'll expand the lead and add the external links (although Bluff and WSOP are already used as references), but I think the poker section would be undue weight. He's not a pro, as he says in the article, and his poker 'career' is largely a hobby (albeit a very profitable one). In terms of notability via coverage, it has received far less coverage than the dog shelter and his management of Brewster. Certainly compared to Jennifer Tilly, I don't think it really justifies more of a mention than it already has. Gran2 13:07, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I'll settle for just a secondary poker infobox, although I think you should consider things like this and this in terms of poker coverage.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 13:46, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Done. Gran2 14:15, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I was unclear. In the main text, the addition of an infobox sufficient change rather than a whole dedicated section. You still need to add Emmys and ITMs to the LEAD.  You should also fully enumerate in the text two more poker events (the largest professional field over which he finished first, the largest prize). These may be two different events and they may be the same.  Look at all the new ELs and decide.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 15:20, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Right, fine, done.... Gran2 15:49, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
 * convert acre. --TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 05:27, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Even though it's in a quote, done. Gran2 10:08, 18 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Awards
 * What do you think about linking to each annual Emmy Award show article on first mention?
 * Hmm. Why isn't his name mentioned in any of these articles?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 11:39, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I've no idea. Probably because they're incomplete articles. The official Emmys site very clearly states that he won them. Gran2 12:07, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I think the award he has won 7 times should be mentioned first. --TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 11:36, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I just put them in chronological order. Gran2 12:07, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

I am going to be offline for the rest of the afternoon. I will do a readthrough tonight, but it is looking good. --TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 18:12, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Probably need to change "biggest win " to "biggest win in terms of both field size and prize money"--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 18:20, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Done. Gran2 18:33, 18 August 2011 (UTC)


 * GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)


 * 1) It is reasonably well written.
 * a (prose): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):
 * 1) It is factually accurate and verifiable.
 * a (references): b (citations to reliable sources):  c (OR):
 * 1) It is broad in its coverage.
 * a (major aspects): b (focused):
 * 1) It follows the neutral point of view policy.
 * Fair representation without bias:
 * 1) It is stable.
 * No edit wars, etc.:
 * 1) It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
 * a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
 * Fails 6a because most Hollywood folks are suppose to have on their images. This is a borderline case since he is not really an onscreen personality, but we might as well protect his rights anyway since he is somewhat recognizable.  Fails 6b because a WP:CAPTION should not end in a full stop if it is not a full sentence. Either make it a full sentence or remove the full stop.
 * 1) Overall:
 * Pass/Fail:
 * I am just about ready to pass this. One minor issue is the talk page. Simon should probably be in several more projects. I would check those at Talk:The Simpsons and those at Talk:World Series of Poker.
 * a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
 * Fails 6a because most Hollywood folks are suppose to have on their images. This is a borderline case since he is not really an onscreen personality, but we might as well protect his rights anyway since he is somewhat recognizable.  Fails 6b because a WP:CAPTION should not end in a full stop if it is not a full sentence. Either make it a full sentence or remove the full stop.
 * 1) Overall:
 * Pass/Fail:
 * I am just about ready to pass this. One minor issue is the talk page. Simon should probably be in several more projects. I would check those at Talk:The Simpsons and those at Talk:World Series of Poker.

A few minor issue and then we are done.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 23:29, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Right, the images things are done. I've tagged it with WP:COMEDY. If other projects want to tag this page they are more than welcome to, but I don't really see why that's my responsibility. Gran2 11:55, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your hard work and patience with my review. I am now passing this article.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 12:36, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your review. Gran2 13:39, 19 August 2011 (UTC)