Talk:Sambo (martial art)/Archive 1

Section header here would be nice
A little bit of trivia -- and if I find a good source I'll report back -- Sport Judo and Sport Sambo are more closely related than most know. When presented at the olympics, Sambo so impressed Judo practitioners that they took it upon themselves to learn more. As I understand, the Judo from back then and the Sport Judo of today are quite different, part of the reason being this influence from Sambo. The reverse is now known to be true, as a descendant (son or grandson, I don't recall) of the creator of Sambo reported under oath a relation between the two (I believe it was a relation to Kodokan Judo). Like I said, I don't recall so well and my last source was a forum thread, but I'll check back in if I bump into something more. -- Sy 06:01, 2 Jan 2005 (UTC)


 * As I understand, WW2 Sambo manuals are not classified anymore. There's a great resource.. if anyone reads Russian.  =) -- Sy 13:45, 5 Jan 2005 (UTC)


 * As I understand, the military also had Karate and possibly other martial arts influences, not just with and not always with sambo or combat sambo.

(source)


 * SAMBO - Unarmed Self-Defense (Russian Jacket Wrestling)
 * Lots of Locations to choose from
 * Nikolay Ivanovich Orlovsky
 * Phone: 8-(253)-3-29-35
 * website: www.sambo.ru


 * Rukopashnii Boi -- Hand to hand combat style of Spetsnaz. A hard, direct version of Systema, often classified in special forces training as Combat Sambo.

Martial arts category
Dangerboy, care to explain why you are removing the Tag Martial Arts from this entry? KingMob 06:25, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Though I believe Dangerboy removed the Martial arts category before Russian martial arts subcategory was added, I think the martial arts category is covered under Russian martial arts which is a subcategory of "Martial arts". When a subcategory of a category exists, it is okay for the parent category to be removed. I'd like to get an agreement/consensus before I remove that category again, though. --Deathphoenix 05:43, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * I've gone ahead and removed it. If you have any objections to this, please discuss it here. --Deathphoenix 19:32, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Viktor A. Spiridonov
He wrote a few books:


 * Rukovodstvo samozashity bez oruzhia po sisteme Jiu-Jitsu (Manual on self-defence without weapons according to JuJutsu) in 1927
 * http://www.vrazvedka.ru/main/learning/ruk-b/spiridonov.shtml


 * SAMozashita Bez Oruzhia. Trenirovka i Sostyazania (SELf-defence Without Weapons. Training and Competition) in 1928


 * Samozashita bez oruzhia. Osnovy samozashity. Trenirovka. Metodika izuchenia. (Self-defence without weapons. Basics of self-defence. Training. Methods of study) in 1933.


 * Some interesting comments in this post

Corrected one mistake: in 1923 only Spiridonov worked on hand-to-hand combat for Red Army, not Oshchepkov. Oshchepkov worked in USSR Intelligence Service, and during this time he was in Japan (collected military information ;-) ). He returned to USSR only in 1926 (information from Oshchepkov file, FSB Archive; published in "Hand-to-hand combat in Russia during first half of XX century" in 5 volumes by M.Lukashev, Moscow, 2003). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.117.82.70 (talk) 17:45, 3 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Anything been translated to English yet? --Mista-X (talk) 11:40, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Martial arts category for Wikipedians
A new category for those interested in martial arts has been created at Category:Wikipedians_interested_in_martial_arts. To add yourself, simply copy the following code to the bottom of your own user page:

Shawnc 11:49, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

Sistema
On Dicovery channel I saw an program about a form or russian self defence and combat that sounded very much like sambo, but it was called "sistema" (the system). Is it identical, variant of sambo or something else. It was claimed it was based on various traditional forms of unarmed combat. // Liftarn

The program is "Go Warrior", and it was primarily Ryabko's Systema (the work with Mikhail Ryabko and Vladimir Vasiliev) See Ryabko's Systema -- Sy / (talk) 16:37, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Zangief
Where is Zangief listed as a Sambo fighter?

That's hilarious. It says "is also listed as using this style". Listed where? I think in the least that note needs a reference. -- Sy / (talk) 22:50, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

There is no reference. It is a fantasy, a bull. IMHO the author thought this: Zangief is a wrestler from Russia, russian wrestling is best known as Sambo, consequently Zangief is a sambist :-))). Seriously speaking, we cannot consider Zangief as a living person or related to Sambo. -- JayJay 11:50, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

I think Zangief is a fictional character with official source to identify his fighting style. So if the official source doesn't say he is a Sambo fighter, it's pointless to list him as it. I mean, you won't list all fictional russian wrestlers as Sambo fighters just because there is some relation between the styles, will you? --Mato Rei 14:17, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

References on practitioners
The achievements of the sambo practitioners should be referenced. Apparently Sonnon has won a gold medal in the Pan-American games, capital games and US grand national championships (http://www.usadojo.com/biographies/scott-sonnon.htm). As none of these are world championships I believe referring to him as an international champion is not merited.

There are no references on the achievements of other practitioners either.

--Guerra 11:59, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

In reality Sonnon is a good jujutsuka-wrestler, not a true russian sambo practitioner. In addition he was not: "the 1st non-Russian to train in Russia in Russian Martial Art with the trainers of the Special Operations Units of the Russian Special Forces". This is absolutely false. I knew some wrestler from Europe (eg. Bulgary, Poland, Italy, Eastern Germany) that even trained in the USSR, Dynamo of Mockba ever since 1960! >:-( -- JayJay 11:55, 6 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Who the hell added Igor K as a Sambo practioner and champion? He isn't. He was my kickboxing instructor a year ago or so, and while his school offers Sambo (which I am taking), it was never taught by him nor was he ever a world champion. I believe he only won kickboxing titles. - Nemuu 11:53, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Request for Expert Attention
If anyone can add a section on scoring similar to the one in Freestyle wrestling, I think it would be useful. I don't know enough about the style to do it. Mytildebang 03:00, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Command Sambo
Command Sambo in Japanese is actually Combat Sambo in English. Japanese page says the former USSR military called it that way and so do Japanese now. Maybe this should be mentioned in English here. Because it's getting more and more popular through their fighting video games. --Mato Rei 14:05, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Transliteration
i'm way too too lazy to correct this in the right form but please take note that sambo founder's name is NOT spelled oshchepkov but - oSCHepkov in russian it's ощепков and щ is transliterated as SCH not SHCH! щ in ощепков and sch in oschepkov sounds exactly like SH in the word SHit, where as shch sounds like sh-tch, thus oSHCHepkov is a completely wrong way to transliterate ощепков! and the correct way is oschepkov


 * I had two years of Russian at school; and I was taught that the letter щ in the Russian alphabet is pronounced "shtsha"; and I found countless examples where it is pronounced this way (e. g. in "yeshtsho raz" (once more))- NOT "sha", which is a DIFFERENT letter in the alphabet (lacking the little "," at the end of the bottom line of щ). Nobody says "yesho raz". That would be against the logic. So I doubt your claim.


 * Could some Russian comment on that? - Yog-S


 * I dunno who wrote that, but щ is commonly transliterated as shch in English. Check out Transliteration of russian and Щ. --Stacey Doljack Borsody 02:32, 6 April 2007 (UTC)


 * As Russian, I say that "Щ" in Ощепков and "sch" in Oschepkov sounds similar (and "Oshchepkov" is so complex for this surname). But there is official rule of transliteration... --Vihljun 07:44, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Anatoly Kharlampiev: Official?
There is no single recognized founder of Sambo. However, Anatoly Kharlampiev is often officially recognized as the founder.

That doesn't make sense; shouldn't it be "unofficially recognized" ? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.80.113.243 (talk) 00:29, 24 April 2007 (UTC).
 * He is official founder of Sambo. Vasili Oshchepkov and Viktor Spiridonov are unofficially recognized as main founders. --Vihljun 07:28, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Vasili Oshchepkov
According to the documents of NKVD, Vasili Oshchepkov died in prison (during pretrial incarceration) 10 days after arrest in 1937. There was no trial, he was died before it, and he never was in gulag. Official reason of death is breast pang. In 1957 he was fully exonerated. --Vihljun 07:28, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Samboleglockcropped.jpg
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BetacommandBot (talk) 21:28, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Sambo1973.jpg
Image:Sambo1973.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 05:10, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:FIAS.gif
Image:FIAS.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 13:59, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Sonnon
His HMOS description was modifed, it looked like he recieved an HMOS from the USSR (he got it from AASF, USSR HMOS was impossible at this time).

The mention of coaching the two people makes it seem like he coaches them in nogi Sambo, which, unless someone can provide a credible source, is downright misinformation. Everything else stands. HolJah (talk) 03:44, 15 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm inclined to remove Sonnon from the list completely as all 3 references currently in his description go back to Sonnon ran sites. I could be wrong here, but I thought self referenceing was a no no? Onesti (talk) 09:09, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Ron Trip vs. Rickson Gracie
important to note the contrversial nature of the win, as it is Rickson's only loss and he claims to not have been properly informed of the rules. —Preceding unsigned comment added by HolJah (talk • contribs) 00:05, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

How can it be controversal? It was a clear Total Victory throw, and both Rickson and other BJJ masters such as the Machados competed in countless Sambo events. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.208.122.50 (talk) 01:02, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

modern?
how come world war one is a modern thing? 87.116.161.138 (talk) 17:39, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

"Samboiste"?
I see the term "sambo practitioner" used, but it seems clunky. What do sambo-folks call themselves? I like the term "Samboiste" as it flows well with "judoka". Thoughts? Or will we stick with the two-term conflation? Jackbox1971 (talk) 04:17, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Russian sambo practitioners use term "sambist" (самбист). Vihljun (talk) 13:34, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

SCORING?
Suggestion: describe how matches are scored. Submission through joint locks or chokes seems plausible given the description... But what about scoring? --74.195.63.121 (talk) 03:39, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

umar shakhzadayev
User Mmamurat added a reference to 'umar shakhzadayev ', whose name I couldn't retrieve on Google, breaking the layout in the process. Removed it for now... -78.20.116.246 (talk) 20:15, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

my compliments to this writer
"Over the centuries, the inhabitants of what is now known as Russia had had ample opportunity to evaluate the martial skills of various invaders"

This line is a wonderful demonstration of, um, "diplomatic" language. I compliment you, mysterious writer, and thank you for making me smile this morning. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.237.20.231 (talk) 14:13, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Can not be said better than this....68.80.248.29 (talk) 00:12, 16 February 2012 (UTC)