Talk:Sambucus

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Between 5 and 30 species
I don't get it, are they unsure how many species there are? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bradenkeith (talk • contribs) 23:15, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Autochthony speaks. 2009-02-28. Define species. Once that is done - if the information about genetic distance; interbreeding/interpollination, and the success and fertility of any offspring; natural occurrence, etc. is all actually known & retrievable - then, when some scientist does the work, we will know how many species there are. This could take a working lifetime - 40 man-or-woman years - for what reward? Satisfying Bradenkeith's (fleeting?) curiosity? How much would Bradenkeith pay for that? But. . . More interesting is the comment about the images/gallery. An article about plants is enriched by pictures, the Wikipedia policy is noted - but a [good] picturre speaks many words. I found the images on display today useful in learning about elders. Maybe others might do so, too, especially having them with the text. 81.157.223.75 (talk) 20:00, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

When I took a course in local botany at OSU, the faculty didn't even agree what species the red elderberry growing west of the Cascade range was, including whether it was a single one. That brings me to comment on the height information given about the red elderberry: it's what was in our botany text, but in the field we frequently encountered red elder over six meters tall, occasionally eight, and a cluster of rare specimens over ten. Dismalscholar (talk) 21:38, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

Flu remedy
Latest Medicinal Section looks dubious 76.66.12.232 (talk) 09:45, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Indeed. Thom has a long history of "proving" that various miracle cremes and pills "work"; see e.g. http://blog.tjomlid.com/?p=848 (in norwegian) 92.105.196.118 (talk) 09:17, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

I've trimmed the section back to something that I hope meets WP:MEDRS. Can someone search for reviews and similar sources that would be due more weight than just individual studies? --Ronz (talk) 15:57, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

New research published shows some interation between the extract and the influenza virus — Preceding unsigned comment added by CanadianChemist (talk • contribs) 18:54, 25 April 2019 (UTC)

The latest I am reading from PubMed shows efficacy against upper respiratory tract infections. Since the link in the article is from 6 years ago, there is more recent data available: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30670267 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28198157 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.7.217.207 (talk) 21:18, 13 February 2020 (UTC)

The Swiss
While I am in no way attempting to disparage the noble Swiss people, it does seem like the statement in the uses section "...the Swiss (the foremost experts of Sambucus cultivation and culinary applications)" might be a bit POV without some kind of reliable citation. Colincbn (talk) 03:30, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Update, I looked around for something (in English) about Swiss Elderberry production/cultivation and found very little. I did however find a lot of information on Austrian Elderberry production/cultivation. I will attempt to get some of that information into this article shortly. Colincbn (talk) 05:00, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

When I lived in Switzerland, people used the flowers more than the berries (Holunderblüten). Very commonly used for colds. https://www.gesundheitswissen.de/pflanzenheilkunde/holunder/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.7.217.207 (talk) 21:16, 13 February 2020 (UTC)

Optimal environmental growing conditions
Preferred soil type: A friend mentioned that they prefer clay soil.

Sun/shade: Shade? --TFJamMan (talk) 08:50, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Level of shade depends with any plant on local climate. The same plant could require a south facing exposure in Britain, but a north facing wall in Texas. Tabby (talk) 01:24, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

Harry Potter
How is Harry Potter trivia folk-lore? JonOlick (talk) 23:10, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I have to agree with you on that one. I cleaned it up, added wiki-links and a ref, but it should still be under a separate "In popular fiction" section or whatever. I just hate making one sentence sections, so I will need to find more refs for both the new Pop-culture section and the folklore section I suppose...Colincbn (talk) 08:12, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I was looking for the reference to Harry Potter, but somebody seems to have removed it entirely. I do not want to enter an edit war, but I learned the word "elder" for sambucus from Harry Potter. I think the reference should be included because Harry Potter is such a widely read novel series and it illustrates the traditional beliefs of the special powers of sambucus as a wood of life and death.(80.133.114.146 (talk) 18:22, 6 November 2014 (UTC))

"Extract"
The comment "Extract is the only black elderberry preparation shown effective in clinical studies" is not very helpful without a more specific description of what is meant by "extract" here. What was the extraction process use to make the extract in the studies? There are lots of "elderberry extracts" on the market, but with without knowing what sort of extraction was used in the studies, there is no way to know if the evidence of the studies applies to them any more than to grandma's jam. --Ericjs (talk) 19:54, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

Monty Python
One of the most famous Monty Python quotes ever directly involves elderberries. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.37.55.17 (talk) 06:00, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
 * "You father smelt of elderberries." I'm not sure if it was just supposed to be nonsense or be implying that his father gets drunk on alcohol made from elderberries.  --207.215.78.126 (talk) 23:36, 30 June 2015 (UTC)

Elderflower "toxic alkaloid"
Until a scientific peer-reviewed source can produce which alkaloids Elder contains and their effects on human health, this flies in the face of the fact that people have been making elderflower cordial from 'raw' elderflowers for centuries. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.202.115.32 (talk) 22:57, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

Medicine
The section abruptly stops half way through a quote. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 27.253.42.86 (talk) 06:24, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

Mid-sentence cutoff!
"Weekly monitoring of IgE showed little to no increase for all the volunteers. Having been shown to be safe and effective, the volunteers "expanded the..." Breaks off mid-sentence.  Does anyone know how this is supposed to continue??  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.147.165.190 (talk) 07:34, 15 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Not just incomplete, but unreferenced medical advice. Removed (for the second time). Mysterious Whisper (SHOUT)  00:48, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

Medicine
I'm not 100% sure of the policies for managing wiki pages, but it may be worthwhile to note that two of the prevalent studies on elderberry for medicinal users were commissioned by companies that produce and sell it. Razei Bar sponsored http://www.jimronline.net/content/full/2004/47/0445.pdf and is a producer of Sambucol http://www.nutraingredients.com/Industry/New-company-aims-to-make-Sambucol-a-global-consumer-brand   The Herbal Sciences group in Naples, Florida sponsored http://www.herbalsciencegroup.com/pdf/5.pdf who create proprietary technology for the producing of herbal remedies http://www.news-medical.net/news/20090911/Elderberry-extract-prevents-H1N1-infection-in-vitro.aspx?page=2 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.60.39.71 (talk) 16:52, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

Sambucus javanica
I am not sure where Sambucus javanica belongs as it is a red-berried species listed within black-berried species group. Sambucus chinensis is a synonym of Sambucus javanica and is listed among the red-berried species. Only one can be correct. Micromesistius (talk) 21:56, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

Possible removal from list
An entry in List of colors: A–F contained a link to this page.

The entry is : I don't see any evidence that this color is discussed in this article and plan to delete it from the list per this discussion: Talk:List_of_colors If someone decides that this color should have a section in this article and it is added, I would appreciate a ping.-- S Philbrick (Talk)  20:23, 19 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Elderberry
 * I've added a bit on color. Mysterious Whisper (talk) 06:02, 20 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I think we need more, but it's a start.-- S Philbrick (Talk)  13:09, 20 August 2018 (UTC)

Glycosides
The section on toxicity talks about 'cyanidin glycosides' and links to wikipedia material on cyanogenic glycosides and external references on both topics. These aren't the same thing. Cyanidin glycosides are anthocyanins -- harmless and possibly beneficial flavonoids responsible for the colour of the fruit. Cyanogenic glycosides break down to release hydrogen cyanide. Sambucus contains both.--Tslumley (talk) 08:18, 25 September 2019 (UTC)
 * thanks for catching this. I edited it for clarity. Please review and comment or re-edit if necessary. --Zefr (talk) 15:17, 25 September 2019 (UTC)

Requested move 29 February 2024

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Bensci54 (talk) 17:50, 15 March 2024 (UTC)

Sambucus → Elderberry – per WP:COMMONNAME. Analogous to such main title headers as Cherry, Strawberry, Raspberry, Blueberry, Cranberry or, for that matter, Apple, Pear, Peach, Plum, etc. A similar nomination for Salmonberry at Talk:Rubus spectabilis was unsuccessful. —. Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 23:40, 29 February 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. BD2412  T 18:02, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Support: I'm a little surprised to hear about Salmonberry, but I note that elderberry may be likely to be more widely familiar, as it is widely cultivated and has become a popular folk medicine, and Elton John popularly highlighted that wine can be made from it. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 02:18, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose. There are several similar species/subspecies - all called elderberry - having WP articles, such as Sambucus nigra, Sambucus canadensis, and Sambucus cerulea (many others under Taxonomy). Per WP:NCFLORA, we're better off leaving this individually as the genus name. Zefr (talk) 02:48, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
 * So the whole genus is called elderberry – is that necessarily a problem? Don't we have other examples of a common name applying to a genus? —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 06:23, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Referring to WP:FLORATITLES for similar applications. Zefr (talk) 15:40, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
 * I note that Frog is the vernacular name for everything in the entire order Anura. That doesn't seem to be a problem. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 22:25, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Note: WikiProject Food and drink has been notified of this discussion. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 09:11, 1 March 2024 (UTC)


 * Support for consistency with various other well-known taxa, as noted. ╠╣uw [ talk ] 11:04, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Note: WikiProject Plants has been notified of this discussion. Declangi (talk) 11:17, 1 March 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose per WP:NCFLORA. Furthermore in my experience the vernacular name is more commonly elder rather than elderberry. Lavateraguy (talk) 13:48, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose: In most popular usage of the term brings up the European species. Hardyplants (talk) 19:35, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose: as notes above, the most common use is for a single species. Peter coxhead (talk) 11:11, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Relisting comment: Relisting for clearer consensus. BD2412  T 18:02, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
 * Oppose per WP:NCFLORA, most of the examples given are articles the fruits of a group of species not to all of the member of a genus—blindlynx 00:30, 8 March 2024 (UTC)