Talk:Same-sex marriage/Archive 1

Civil marriage of gay couples is legal in Denmark, and I believe in Sweeden too. Gay marriage has the form of a "Registered partnership", so it is not called a marriage (maybe to avoid offending religious people), and gives the same legal and fiscal rights as a heterosexual marriage. They take place at the city hall and the ceremony is very similar to a normal civil wedding. The Danish state church (luteran) still doesn't allow gay couples to marry in church, but some priests offer a benediction of the couples afterwards. This is not (I believe) officially sanctioned by the church leadership. I haven't added this to the article because I am not sure of everything. Seindal, Thursday, April 11, 2002

In the Netherlands, is gay marriage actually called "marriage" or are they also using a different term? AxelBoldt


 * huwelijk, the same word that's used for hetero marriage in the netherlands. Prior to 1 Arpil 2001 there was only some kind of "registered partnership" scheme.

I have added a section about Denmark to the article. It shouldn't cause the article to grow excessively, since gay marriage only exists in a handful of countries. If many countries introduce gay marriage, the article will have to be restructured. -- Seindal, Thursday, April 11, 2002

Can gay citizens from countries other than the Netherlands marry in the Netherlands? AxelBoldt


 * At least one partner must either have Netherlands nationality or reside in the country.

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I will move the "registered partnerships" of Denmark and Germany to the civil union article. - user:Montrealais

I have moved material on gay marriage (which was duplicated within the article, anyway) from marriage. We need information on the gay marriage process in Belgium and Finland. - user:Montrealais

I moved Ed Poor's question to Talk:Civil_union. - user:Montrealais

Restricting marriage to straights doesn't preserve the traditional understanding of marriage - it's only argued to do so, which I've clarified. ("...but a guy can still get drunk in Vegas and marry a hooker at the Elvis chapel! The sanctity of marriage is saved!" - Lea Delaria) - user:Montrealais


 * I realize that it is a widespread and powerful convention, but can we please try to avoide the phrase "the traditional understanding of marriage" -- "traditional" usually refers to something hallowed by time, but the so-called "traditional understand of marriage" is scarcely a century old. Hardly traditional, in my book! Slrubenstein


 * Wouldn't the marriage statutes in the first 13 states go back closer to two centuries? Would it be more accurate to say either "traditional Christian understanding" or maybe even "traditional Judeo-Christian understand"?


 * I was not refering solely to marriage as between a man and a woman -- remember, in the 19th century many marriages were common-law, or arranged for economc purposes. I cannot speak to a "traditional" Christian understanding of marriage; as for a traiditional Jewish understanding, for most of Jewish history that would have included polygyny. Slrubenstein

Hey, it isn't my argument (that's for damn sure). That's just what they call it. Someone else called it that and I kept it, though rewriting the sentence. I certainly think it's a spurious concept, but that's what they call it. (An article describing anti-Semitism might say, "Some believe, blah blah blah, Jewish comspiracy" even though "Jewish conspiracy" is a spurious concept too.) - user:Montrealais

What is the objection to the word "traditional" in traditional understanding of marriage? Is it that calling something traditional is tantamount to endorsing it? That is, are we trying to avoid an NPOV violation here?


 * I thought I explained my objection above Slrubenstein

Or is anyone aware of a change in the understanding of marriage that took place in the late 1890s or early 1900s? That is, when and where has the idea of "one man, one woman" been popular? (I kinda thought it was the norm nearly at all times and in all places, with rather rare exceptions. I wish someone would write an article showing the scope of one man, one woman if it's prevalence is significantly less than I (and perhaps many other readers) have thought.


 * Well, you could try your friendly local encyclopedia. Polygamy says Polygynous societies are about four times more numerous than monogamous ones.


 * also, just read the article on marriage Slrubenstein

The article reads: "However after a court case brought about by a gay couple it was concluded that restricting marriage to partners of mixed sex was in violation of the constitution, which forbids discrimination against homosexuals. Hence the marriage law was changed."

This description may confuse US-Americans, as their constitution seems to be 'the final word' on something, and laws have to conform to the constitution. In the Netherlands, the constitution has little legal standing, AFAIK; it is more like a list of intentions. Of course, it would be silly to have a list of intentions and then having law go against those intentions, but it is not impossible or illegal. A judge finding a law or situation unconstitutional is no more than a legal expert voicing his opinion. IANAL.--user:Branko

Problems Facing Same- Sex Married Couples
In addition to facing the difficulties related to finding cultural acceptance, legal rights and prejudice, perhaps the most challenging obstacle to same- sex marriages is the absolute dearth of bakeries willing to break- up a set and sell two little plastic "grooms" to sit atop the wedding cake.dave


 * oh haha. I expect the same problem befalls heterosexual couples where the woman doesn't want to dress up like a meringue. Besides, (1) they could double up with a gay couple of the opposite sex (since that happens sometimes for having children, why not for cake decorations), and (2) I expect the manufacturers of such tasteless tack will jump on any bandwagon, and won't wait long before producing a variety of naff figurines "for all lifestyle choices" ;-) -- Tarquin


 * You probably don't believe me, and I don't blame you, but they HAVE two-little-grooms figures for gay wedding cakes. I've seen them. Then again, this is the same community where you can buy rainbow candlesticks and flowerpots, so don't be too surprised. :P user:Montrealais


 * See? I was right! ;-) -- Tarquin

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I believe the more appropriate title for this entry would be Same-sex marriage. Comments???


 * At first I agreed with you. I assumed "gay" to be a colloquialism or slang, but the American Heritage Dictionary makes no such distinction, so I say leave it alone. David de Paoli


 * We might want to change the name. user:Montrealais

I agree, the name should changed to same-sex marriage since in many circles "gay" = homosexual male and is therefore more ambiguous and less inclusive compared with "same-sex". If there is general agreement on this issue say so on my talk page and I will perform the move (since this will require deleting the redirect same-sex marriage to make room for the move). --mav


 * Maybe it's because I have several friends in West Hollywood, but "gay" is used equally to refer to homosexual males as well as females. However, the activist group "GLAD" (Gay & Lesbian Advocates & Defenders) does set the precedent that indeed "gay" does imply male homosexuals as differentiated from female ones. So, I hereby change my vote to support changing the title.David de Paoli

Righto, change seems to be in effect now. See Same-sex marriage. Have a nice day. :-)