Talk:Sami Brady/Archive 1

Page moves
This page is constantly moved back and forth. There is no confirmation her name is hyphenated. While simply a maiden name would be more appropriate, if her marital name is used it should reflect the show -- which does not reference a hyphen in any way. D&#39;Amico 18:07, 6 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree. She is more well-known by "Sami Brady," which is what I've been moving it to, but if people absolutely insist on having her new name there (and it's a soap, let's be real, how long is she going to have that name anyway?), then it should not have a hyphen. Mike H. I did "That's hot" first! 10:01, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
 * The best action regarding this topic would be to talk this over with User:TimothyBanks, considering that he is the main editor who changes the woman's last name to her married last name, or at least what is assumed as her married last name. He has also done such an action with this article, of course. Flyer22 03:50, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I admittedly don't know how I got referred and redirected to this page, but I couldn't be happier that I did. Sami is SAMI BRADY.  Many people will never acknowledge her as Sami Brady-Roberts just as her mother has always been Marlena Evans.  For search purposes Sami should remain Sami Brady.  There are spoilers and even Bryan Datillo who plays Lucas Roberts has publicly said that they are breaking up very soon.  With the soap pages the women should stay at their maiden name pages.  It is where many, if not the majority of viewers will look for a character.CelticGreen 00:44, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
 * The page was moved again by AugustAugust and complained to the admin who moved it back to Sami Brady. I've let him know and he'll move it back again when he sees who moved it.  There's been priop issues with the editor that moved the page. S/he doesn't seem to understand what an admin is and what their power is.CelticGreen 18:41, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for moving the page back. If "spoiler" information is true (an article about Bryan Dattilo and his character Lucas - SOW, September 17th), the divorce is already filmed making her Sami Brady again.IrishLass0128 13:05, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Forced sex
Considering I read that the "consensus" was to change "rape" to "forced sex" (which is basically just a nice word for rape), I think an RFC needs to be filed about this issue. Why do we use "rape" two other times in her history but not this one? I think I'll file that RFC tonight. Mike H. I did "That's hot" first! 21:01, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
 * It was decided on the EJ Wells page to used "forced sex." The official NBC site does not use the word rape.  It doesn't even use the word forced.  It says "she agreed."  Because there was an agreement on the EJ Wells page and the fact that the show is now hedging a bit on the subject, forced sex seems more appropriate.  I don't even like that word because she did agree to what happened.  So you can check out the EJ Wells talk page to see where it was agreed upon.  And what's an RFC?CelticGreen 22:59, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Hmm, if the show is indeed referring to it as rape more so now instead of being ambiguous about it, as it seems that is the case, perhaps it is best to label it as rape, even though some people don't agree that it was/is "true rape"... And, CelticGreen, an RFC is a Requests for comment. Flyer22 23:28, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks Flyer22 that was not my guess. Here's what the NBC website says, the official site, not a message board: Lucas was injured when a beam fell on his legs and EJ agreed to save Lucas only if Sami agrees to let EJ have his way with her. Sami reluctantly had sex with EJ and helped him escape to Mexico, after he was wanted in connection with the shooting of John Black. Despite Sami’s attempt to turn over a new leaf, EJ returned and pressed her for information on police activities, and she was pulled into another web of deception, trying to prevent him from learning she was pregnant. That's from Sami Brady.  That tells me the show's official position is that she agreed.  What a character says and what the show's position is in this case are not the same.  Since Ed Scott took over, only Lucas has used the word and Sami and EJ have shared a couple of kisses as well as reading the Santo and Colleen letters together. It has been indicated they are going to "tighten things up" and fill in some wholes. The anticipation by some fans (I know, there's that "some" word but that is the case with people I have encountered) is that the December 29th issue will be resolved soon.  CelticGreen 00:05, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Request for comment
Dispute over whether what occurred on the December 29, 2006 episode of Days of our Lives between Sami and E.J. was "rape," "forced sex," or neither. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mike Halterman (talk • contribs) 03:31, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
 * As I said above Here's what the NBC website says, the official site, not a message board: Lucas was injured when a beam fell on his legs and EJ agreed to save Lucas only if Sami agrees to let EJ have his way with her. Sami reluctantly had sex with EJ and helped him escape to Mexico, after he was wanted in connection with the shooting of John Black. Despite Sami’s attempt to turn over a new leaf, EJ returned and pressed her for information on police activities, and she was pulled into another web of deception, trying to prevent him from learning she was pregnant. That's from Sami Brady.  That tells me the show's official position is that she agreed.  What a character says and what the show's position is in this case are not the same.  Since Ed Scott took over, only Lucas has used the word and Sami and EJ have shared a couple of kisses as well as reading the Santo and Colleen letters together. It has been indicated they are going to "tighten things up" and fill in some wholes. The anticipation by some fans (I know, there's that "some" word but that is the case with people I have encountered) is that the December 29th issue will be resolved soon.  Additionally, the character has called what happened a "deal" and has been seen in a church telling God that "she would do it again"; most rape victims, if not all, that I have encountered would not do it again. As the network's official position is currently "she agreed" the word forced sex seems the most neutral.  CelticGreen 15:43, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
 * And the NBC website is not reporting how the story played out. You can't ignore that for the better part of a year, most of Sami's dialogue was "EJ, you raped me!" Mike H. I did "That's hot" first! 21:14, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
 * No, darlin' ;) most of Sami's dialog has not been "EJ you raped me", that's been Lucas's dialog. And most recently, it has been ALL Lucas saying the word.  Even Marlena didn't bring it up in a heartfelt talk just two days ago. So, I maintain NBC's official stance STANDS.  "She agreed" is their stance.  I agree. As for "better part of a year" she didn't say rape until April, she hasn't said it since July, that's not better part of or even majority part of a year. AND ~ NBC doesn't "report" anything.  They are the official site telling the story of what is going on. CelticGreen 23:55, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
 * So we're going to ignore what happened for months because a website says differently? NBC is selling a product, in this case the coupling of Sami and EJ. Of course they won't come out and say she was raped, they want people to like them together who didn't previously. It's a business, and Sami and EJ are the product. Mike H. I did "That's hot" first! 10:43, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I could get a very long list of clips that shows many, many times EJ and Sami were together where the words "you raped me" didn't occur. I can get scenes of them kissing as recently as last week and as far back as April, after the "incident" occurred.  No, it hasn't been the "better part of a year" it's been a part of the year and it was fairly ambiguous the first part of the year.  Sami didn't tell Lucas until May and that's when it "became" rape.  Prior to that it was a deal and only Celeste had used the word when Sami told her why she was in Lexie's car.  I do see the show backpeddling right now but I wish they would resolve what happened in a definitive way.  As to what the NBC site is selling, they've always been more pro-Lucas and Sami than pro-EJ and Sami.  It's a character bio, not a life long history, and it has said "agreed" for months now even when the push was the big Lucas/Sami wedding. IrishLass0128 12:21, 19 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't know anything about Days of our Lives. However, what I do know, is that "forced sex" is "rape".  It's not even really a euphemism. This is like an argument over whether the Holocaust should be described as "genocide" or as "the deliberate and systematic destruction of an ethnic and religious  group".   Dlabtot 22:49, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I could get in trouble for saying this but I'm going to anyway. HOW DARE YOU ~ you cannot compare a FICTIONAL show to the Holicaust.  That's just sick.  The "forced sex" wording is a neutrality decision and is not a euphemism for rape.  Those agreeing to "force sex" don't believe what happened was rape but understand not everyone agrees about December 29th.  You cannot compare a real life event to a SOAP OPERA.  To trivialize the Holocaust and put it on the same level as a soap is unfathomable CelticGreen 00:16, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Uh...calm down, please. Dlabtot was referring to semantics of word choice, not marrying the two ideas together. Mike H. I did "That's hot" first! 04:28, 19 September 2007 (UTC)


 * It's apparent that what some viewers argue is that it wasn't even forced sex, rape, or what other variant there is for rape, considering that EJ gave her a choice. But then...some viewers, the ones on the other side of the debate...argue whether she really had a choice or not. Flyer22 23:12, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
 * And I don't think the term "forced sex" makes it any better or neutral than "rape." "Forced sex" is rape. Mike H. I did "That's hot" first! 04:29, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
 * The scene was ambiguous at the beginning. It was a deal, he would help her if she had sex with him.  No different than a deal a prostitute makes, she has sex with men for money or drugs, Sami had sex with EJ so he would help her.  Some believe because he had a gun, she was forced, others saw it as she had just passed a road block, she could have gotten out and walked back to the road block.  She, however, chose to have sex.  That's not rape.  She never said no and undressed herself.  Legally, that's not rape, it's consensual.  Did he "force" her, yes, he forced her to choose her method of getting help for Lucas.  As to the show, they have yet to fully address the issue.  When Wyman was still there they threw the word rape around like sprinkles on a donut.  Since he's been gone it's been used by one character, Lucas, and only used two or three times.  The situation was not rape.  It wasn't even forced sex, it was sex for services.  I don't agree that the word rape or even forced sex should be used but "forced sex" is better than rape and a word those who don't believe it was rape have decided we can live with.IrishLass0128 12:07, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
 * There is a lot of back and forth amongst the fan bases. In Canada, what happened is definitely considered a sexual assault, and is punishable by law. According to the Wikipedia entry for Rape, which includes coercion based on blackmail, threats of violence, etc, what happened on the show is rape. Of course, this makes a good chunk of soap sex rape. D&#39;Amico 19:56, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
 * But in the US if you say "okay" and you undress yourself, it's not. This is a US soap, produced in California. I admit, I'm not going to base my opinion on the Wiki article on rape for various reasons; but facts are, in the US, EJ wouldn't be convicted of rape.  CelticGreen 21:35, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
 * When it comes to coercion, the Wikipedia article on rape states "In some cases coercion might also be used to negate consent"...which, of course, means not all cases. What I further have to state on this matter is that rape (and I mean more in the sense of adults raping adults) is a tough case to prosecute due to all the factors that have to be taken into account, so I imagine that trying to say that someone being blackmailed into sex is rape is twice as difficult to (try to) prosecute. A woman saying, "I was raped because this man said he was going to tell this secret, if I didn't have sex with him" is a tough sell. What made/makes Sami's case different than that, though, is that the writers of Days of our Lives put a life-threatening twist on it; it was either Sami has sex with EJ or lets her husband (who she loves) die, thus this made/makes Sami's situation seem more dire, as though she really has no choice...as opposed to a person not wanting his or her secret to come out and has sex with that person because of that. By the way, CelticGreen, after EJ saved Lucas' life, why didn't Sami just not follow through with having sex with EJ? She had the choice to not keep her word on that matter after he had saved Lucas' life, right? And as for the other mention of what Wikipedia also states can be considered, that "Generally, consent is considered invalid if it is obtained from someone who is: Judgmentally impaired or incapacitated by alcohol or drugs (legal or otherwise)"...yes, I would consider someone on powerful drugs giving consent to be invalid, but as for being drunk...that person would need to be really drunk for me to consider that rape. Plenty of people get drunk and give consent to another person to have sex with each other. Rape in this case would be taking advantage of someone who is so drunk that they have either not given consent, though aren't battling the person off of them, or so drunk that it really is clear they have no idea what they are truly saying. Flyer22 22:19, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
 * That's the funny part about all of this. Lucas gets trapped under a beam, Sami runs to the road, she jumps in the first car by and it's EJ's in Lexie's stolen car.  Somehow, she is not on the other side of a roadblock that EJ needs to get through and magically Lucas is also on the other side of this roadblock, one that Sami didn't pass while getting to the road.  So Sami got EJ through the roadblock, then rather than getting out of the car ~ which he did offer to let her do ~ she stops down and takes time to have sex with EJ then they go on and rescue Lucas.  In the amount of time the sex took, she could have gone back to the cop at the road block.  Instead she had sex with EJ and then they went and rescued him together.  Hence why some of us don't think it was rape. She had other options.  CelticGreen 18:24, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Not arguing for or against the rape argument (my opinion on that is if Sami refers to it as rape, it's rape -- but that's a whole side issue), but there is a legal argument in favor of rape. By California law (Penal Code, section 261), it would be rape -- specifically as it pertains to Sami's perception of whether or not Lucas' life relied on her sleeping with EJ. Of course, different states may have different viewpoints. D&#39;Amico 05:15, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
 * In several states because she undressed herself, it would not, including NC and NY (according to a NY cop that analysed the case for some friends and myself) and I would question even California but I haven't lived there for 3 years so the laws could have changed. I have issue with "just because a woman says it was rape, it's rape" because of the NC Duke LaCross team and Kobe Bryant, all falsely accused by women who cried rape when it was consentual at the very least or didn't happen in the case of the Duke boys.  But you are right, that's another argument.  CelticGreen 14:16, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
 * In real life, I would agree. But there are enough characters on the show that have commented that it wasn't a consensual act. The real world laws mean nothing in the soap world -- after all, how many times have various characters on this show been sentenced to death regarding the murders of people who were still alive? ;) D&#39;Amico 21:17, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
 * We had that period of time where it was sprinkled everywhere, but since Ed Scott has joined, it's only been said a couple times by Lucas, not by Sami. Even when Marlena was having the "how do you feel about Lucas and EJ" talk with Sami, the word did not come up.  D'Amico I'm sure if you are a long time viewer like I am, you miss things like knowing how everyone found out about EJ and Sami's night of December 29th.  Did Sami tell them all "he raped me" or did she tell them "this happened" and they jumped to conclusions?  I wish I knew.  I wish Hogan Sheffer would fill in these swiss cheese holes of his.  Don't you?  Emotionally, I hold out hope that Hogan will clear things up.  Logically, I have to go with what the official site says in my argument to keep it as "forced sex" since I know I will never get "coerced sex" to be agreed to.  CelticGreen 00:11, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
 * There are so many things I would like this show to explain. For example, exactly where did Jett spring from? The webpage says the original Theo, but how about some more back story? Why should I care about this character? Same with Jeremy. The Sami/EJ storyline is one I just completely lost interest in. Although I'm relieved that they seem to finally be wanting to explain the Brady/DiMera feud (by making Santo DiMera an adulterous lech who pursued a nun while his wife was dying, AND rewriting the entire DiMera history while they were at it). Ah, I miss the good old days ... I wish Carly and Lawrence would come back. D&#39;Amico 11:03, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
 * You and me both. I'm so tired of the swiss cheese style of writing.  Just Friday, how did Sami find out that Colleen killed herself?  I've watched the clips and the eps and I never saw anyone tell her.  What was her reaction?  We saw EJ's reaction to finding out, he didn't know Colleen killed herself or that his grandmother was alive.  What about Sami? What was her reaction?  And why are we supposed to believe that blond is Jeremy Horton raised in Isreal, son of Robin and Mike, both dark haired individuals and Jeremy is a Jew since Robin was and there was a big deal made of that.  What happened?  And why is he blond?  That's a sticking point with me, why is he blond???  And why is Lucas the only one calling it rape now? Even Sami doesn't call it that any more.  What is going on with this show?  CelticGreen 22:35, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm glad it's not just me. This is not the show I was watching twenty years ago. Heck, it's not the show I took a hiatus from ten years ago. It seems like family and fun has been lost somewhere. Sami used to be amusing; from day one, I was a big fan of the character. Now she's turning into Marlena (who, no offense to Marlena, is not overly interesting at this point). No matter what they call it, I'm always going to have a huge problem with what happened that night, and it's basically ruined EJ for me. Nothing I hate more on any show than a guy who uses sex for power, and that's what it was. I still can't forgive Luke on GH, and that was what, 20 years ago? I could even buy the blond Jeremy if I had to (I'm assuming it's a recessive gene he inherited from blonde aunt Jennifer), but it's the little things. I'd like to see them readdress the Lucas situation -- since Kate told Lucas she had no idea who his father was based on her own 'working' for Stefano while he was conceived, no one has even addressed the fact that there's a very good chance he's _not_ a Horton. I miss the old DAYS. If they replaced the current shows with the late 1980s and early 1990s, the ratings would probably go up. D&#39;Amico 08:48, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Unborn Children
I got this from an Admin regarding adding Sami's expected twins under "children"; I thought it was relative to add to the talk page:

Given the permutations and fluctuations of soap opera storylines, including anything and everything about a character would result in many articles about those characters becoming indiscriminate collections of information, which we don't want. There are cutoffs for what information is important enough for everything, and in soap operas the project has decided not to list expected children because the writers frequently still or miscarry them (see also the Wikipedia is not a crystal ball page — so many things are planned that do not come to fruition that we can't possibly have articles about future things unless they are very likely to happen, and soap opera children do not quite make that cut).

Since there seems to be editors who keep adding the children despite style guidelines, I thought having it here was important. IrishLass0128 12:27, 20 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Out of curiosity, did they say anything about how they wanted to treat miscarriage or stillbirths after the fact? Previous discussions at the soap projects threads and such agreed that those things should be listed, but only on the history of the actual parent and not anyone else. (I'm mostly just trying to find out if there have been any new updates, since probably half of soap pregnancies these days don't go anywhere.) D&#39;Amico 19:36, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Still births are usually children that are named. Those are listed.  I do know that.  It's the "unborn/unnamed" miscarriages that I was told not to list simply because it's unnecessary information not relevant and can be added under "character history" in the text portion.  Example would be Sarah, Gwen and Ethan's daughter on Passions.  You list her because she was born, named, and had a funeral.  Does that make sense?CelticGreen 19:43, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Page Rating????
I've seen pages less encompassing than this that got a B rating. What makes you believe it's a start and not a B?CelticGreen 21:58, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Last Name
Now that she is divorced from Lucas Roberts, can her name be changed back to Sami Gene Brady. It appears official on November 6, 2007, in the US, That Sami and Lucas are divorced and she will no longer be Roberts, but yet again Brady.Perfecttlovee 18:59, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
 * It's taken care of correctly. It should never be Sami Gene Brady.  Her name is Samantha Gene Brady and should appear on the first line as "Samantha Gene "Sami" Brady.  Furthermore. it should not be changed to Wells-DiMera in the future unless she is proven to legally take the name.  IrishLass0128 19:09, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Thank you, I don' think she will take on the name Wells-DiMera. I am not sure what is EJ Well's legal name. Thanks.Perfecttlovee 20:46, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * It's Wells. I don't know why people have such a problem with that concept.  It's not just you, it's a lot of people.  I attribute it to Bo Brady.  He calls EJ something different not just in every time he's on but every time he says it.  Poor Peter must be as confused as the rest of us over the name.  IrishLass0128 20:51, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Okay Thank you for clearing that up, the show confuses me with this last name business.They seem to rotate the last names around alot of the time.Perfecttlovee 20:58, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * In the credits as of November 19, 2007, she is credited as Samantha Brady DiMera.Perfecttlovee (talk) 02:32, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Not on the credits I saw. There's a common name rule.  Don't go changing things.  I know you're an EJami fan but let's not have that invade here.CelticGreen (talk) 22:45, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Wow interesting that you didn't see it in the credits, maybe next time they pop out you should look. No next time I will take pictures so you can see it and not assume that I am lying about it. What does this all have to do with EJami? Last time I checked this was the Sami Brady page not the EJ and Sami page. I did not change anything in her last name, I just simply pointed out that the names in the credits have changed. I never pushed or said for someone to change the name. I just want this page to be up to date and if the recent events and credits show her as Samantha Brady DiMera, I want people to be aware of that fact. Whether it is changed in this article or not its not my concern, I have not edited or messed with this page at all. I will not start to do so anytime soon either.Perfecttlovee (talk) 00:39, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I did look and ours still said Sami Brady. Regardless, Wikipedia goes by common names.  It's not about "up to date" anything regarding fictional characters.  Maybe if you familiarized yourself with Wikipedia and concerned yourself with more than EJami/Sami/EJ, you'd know that.  Wikipedia isn't a news channel, it's an encyclopedia..  CelticGreen (talk) 00:38, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Really is that why its called the Wikipedia encyclopedia?I would have never known.Well Im not fully familiarized with Wikipedia policy because I do not spend my entire time on here. I also don't only concern myself with EJami/EJ/Sami, who are fictional characters.I don't come in here often and when I do I simply point things out that could be new to the encyclopedia. Yeah I know its isn't a news channel, but people still come to wikipedia to find out the full and new information not the old outdated stuff.I don't need to know anything more about wikipedia, I know all I want and need to know, I certainly don't come in here to be lectured on what I should learn and what I should concern myself with.Perfecttlovee (talk) 00:47, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Nice rant. No one spends all their time on Wikipedia but those that do spend our time trying to improve it understand its purpose.  There's a MOS called Common Names.  Sami's common name is Brady. That's not "outdated" information, it's fact and fact is people searching are going to search Sami Brady, not Sami DiMera. That's what Wikipedia is about.  Information, not gossip.  Again, just looked at credits for 11/20 and it says Brady.  CelticGreen (talk) 00:52, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Thank you I think it turned out rather nicely. Oh I know its a fact that she is Sami Brady, and whenever anybody is going to search they are going to search Sami Brady.I am not saying to put DiMera in there or change the name. I just pointed out that the credits says Samantha Brady DiMera.Interesting that your credits say Samantha Brady, when before this it was Samantha Brady Roberts.I don't understand your hostility toward something that I pointed out in a discussion page. I never changed anything, I never had any intention of changing it. I know there are people that do the editing and I always put things that I see in the discussion page for them.Maybe I should have made things clearer b/c I was pointing this out to IrishLass cause she always helps me with such matters and understanding the policy.Perfecttlovee (talk) 00:59, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
 * So you agree that you are here to rant rather than contribute. Nice.  I guess I'll be done with the EJami fan now. And the credits said Sami Brady, not Samantha.CelticGreen (talk) 01:10, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
 * No I don't agree with that, but go ahead and think whatever you want to think, I wont stop you. I just came in here to point something out. Just because you think you are done with an EJami fan, doesn't mean I am going to stop coming in here.Next time I come I will have a picture of the credits, and Sami has never been credited as Sami Brady, more like Samantha "Sami" Brady, but never just Sami Brady.Well I guess this certain EJami is done with this discussion, it was a blast really.Perfecttlovee (talk) 05:26, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Bring whatever picture you want, it won't change the common name and it will only cause problems. The LUMIs who insisted she was Sami Roberts caused less problems than you are creating with this diatribe.  It doesn't matter what the credits say.  Why can't you understand that?  And not sure where you are looking, but Sami has always been credited as Sami Brady see  to put an end to any questions. CelticGreen (talk) 13:04, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
 * For like the 7th time I am not trying to change anything, I was just pointing it out. If I wanted to change anything, I would have done it myself.The only reason I said about the pictures is at you pointing out that I am some how lying.The credits I am looking at are the ones at the end of the show.By the way I am the one that pointed out that Sami on this article had the name of Samantha "Sami" Gene Brady Roberts, and asked for Roberts to be removed.So I think you were not as hard with the Lumis who actually changed it, unlike me.Because obviously it was there, and I had to point it out to be removed, but I did not remove it myself.Perfecttlovee (talk) 18:15, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
 * So if you aren't trying to cause problems, why keep harping on not one, but two pages? CelticGreen (talk) 15:50, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Why? Because I keep getting accused of trying to change the last names, when I did not. Of course I am not just going to roll over and let you walk right on through,besides I think the issue is very cleared up, no need to discuss something that isn't going to be changed.Perfecttlovee (talk) 00:52, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Um, maybe you should read and not assume. Stop being bothersome and causing issues. You're acting like this is a message board.  Why keep disturbing people????  Because you're just.......... CelticGreen (talk) 01:19, 24 November 2007 (UTC)