Talk:Samudaya

Edit war
There seems to be an edit war going on here, please settle this with a proper discussion. Oiyarbepsy (talk) 07:18, 3 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Various literatures describe the relationship between Samudaya and Pratītyasamutpāda. They are related but not the same. More discussion can be found here https://encyclopediaofbuddhism.org/wiki/Pratityasamutpada#cite_note-30. My previous edit to remove the redirection was rejected because of the lack of a reference. A reference has been added. May I understand what is the reason for the 2nd reject by ? If there are references that equate the two, please add the references so that the readers can get a balanced view. --Leungcwd (talk) 12:18, 3 January 2021 (UTC)
 * A Chinese-written source won't do, and the Encyclopedia of Buddhism is maintained by two ex-Wikipedians, one of them being banned, so absolutely not WP:RS. The article on the four truths offers more info than thr little you added; I see no need for a separate entry. Regards, Joshua Jonathan  - Let's talk!  14:48, 3 January 2021 (UTC)
 * This is better than an incorrect redirection to Pratītyasamutpāda. Hopefully someone will add a better page on Samudaya in the future. --Leungcwd (talk) 16:26, 3 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Mostly I have no skin in the game, but help me out - what's wrong with a Chinese source? Oiyarbepsy (talk) 19:03, 3 January 2021 (UTC)
 * can you read it? Joshua Jonathan  - Let's talk!  19:38, 3 January 2021 (UTC)
 * I can't but it doesn't matter because we can easily find people that can, or use machine translation to get an understanding of what it says. Our sourcing policy explicitly says not to reject a source merely because it's not in English. For that matter, doing so introduces bias into our articles. Oiyarbepsy (talk) 19:42, 3 January 2021 (UTC)
 * I think there's a difference between using western language non-English sources, and using Chinese sources. Anyway, basically the one sentence said "Samudaya is the origin (or cause) of suffering. Samudaya is intertwined with Pratītyasamutpāda, which is the origin of the arising of being."
 * That's non-informative. Samudaya 'is' not "the origin (or cause) of suffering"; it has that meaning in the four noble truths. Samudaya itself means 'coming together (of various elements or constituents', 'arising together'. Four Noble Truths explains this better than this one (presented here by me as three) sentence(s). NB: basically, samudaya and pratityasamutpada both refer to, or incorporate, the same process as described in the five skandhas: how 'wrong' processing of sensory perceptions leads to clinging and craving, while 'correct' processing leads to discerment and release.  Joshua Jonathan  - Let's talk!  20:56, 3 January 2021 (UTC)
 * I believe we do agree that it is not appropriate to link samudaya directly to pratityasamutpada without further elaboration. The references listed by the ex-wikipedians provide evidence that the distinction is not unique in Chinese literature. In the context of Buddhism, pratityasamutpada describes a process or the cause effect chain. Five skandhas is a product of the process. Samudaya are associated with some steps in the process. Dukkha are also associated with some steps in the process. --Leungcwd (talk) 01:26, 4 January 2021 (UTC)