Talk:Samuel Coleridge-Taylor

Comment
This needs a lot of work - I am going to come back to this one when I get some time. Mark Richards 16:03, 13 May 2004 (UTC)

Friday the 13th of May, 2005. He was 15 when he entered the Royal Academy. !7:48Z

He's really more of a 19th century composer than a 20th century composer, both in date and in compositional style/technique. I'd suggest changing that at the top of this page and the top of the Samuel Taylor Coleridge page. --Ted.

Done- changed it to late 19th which is (I think) a good compromise. Mahler (for example) lived into the 20th C. but was a 19th C composer. Coleridge-Taylor lived into the 20th but his fine 1912 violin concerto shows no obvious 20th C influences. Saxophobia 19:25, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

24 October 2006 You may find the info at http://www.hilaryburrage.com/2006/09/samuel_coleridgetaylor.php of interest / help here, particularly in respect of modern realisations and performances of this composer's work. Hilary B

Clean up
No reason was given here for clean up tag. There's a citation needed tag, that remains in place as I don't know a citation to provide, and a corresponding category remains. Dmetric 22:55, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I believe that it is impossible for a white person to be the parent of a black person. The article contains that common flaw which is in numerous articles in Wikipedia:  white people being the parents of "black" children.Velocicaptor 04:46, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Well Velocicaptor has subsequently been removed as a sock-puppeteer. However, on this point, should Coleridge Taylor be described as mixed race? Indisciplined 00:11, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

His name
Given that his father's surname was Taylor, shouldn't there be an explanation as to where the Coleridge bit of his name came from? --rossb (talk) 13:26, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

Surely he must have been named after the very famous poet, Samuel Taylor Coleridge. However, that does not explain how that hyphen got into Coleridge-Taylor's name. Treharne (talk) 05:55, 21 July 2009 (UTC)


 * We have the answer now. The info was all there in our sources; I collated it and wrote a little story.  --  JackofOz (talk) 13:22, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

'African' Mahler
Is 'African' Mahler the actual term that was used by those white NY musicians? I tried googling this and found barely a single reference. The more obvious colour-based epithet on the other hand found a host of references and seems to be the form in which this naming was usually given. I don't want to encourage anyone to offend anyone else, but at present what the article says seems to be not quite the truth. Eebahgum (talk) 12:39, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Have actually sourced that now:
 * http://www.apaonline.org/publications/newsletters/v99n1_Black_04.aspx.
 * It seems pretty evident with this source that he was called "African Mahler". Dieter Simon (talk) 23:58, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Thankyou for taking that trouble. You did well to find this! I am still doubtful, however, as the authors of that article don't source their statement at all and use the term only once. I've no intention of challenging it but is it possible these authors were being politically correct? I just can't find this usage anywhere else. And the book cited at the foot of the article clearly uses the other term. Still, I agree you have sourced this statement! Thanks, best wishes Eebahgum (talk) 08:05, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I take your point, however doesn't that apply to most sources cited. It does seem a pretty substantial and important group of people involved in the American Philosophical Association of the University of Delaware. One would imagine any statements being refuted pretty swiftly by their own peers if they didn't conform to standards. I don't know, but that is what I feel. Dieter Simon (talk) 23:33, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

A tiny question
The article looks fine in the main but there is one line that bugs me. "[Coleridge-Taylor] sought to do for African music what Johannes Brahms did for Hungarian music and Antonín Dvořák for Bohemian music." Well, it's certainly true that Dvorak did something for Bohemian music but Brahms? What did he do for Hungarian music? Yes, he wrote "Hungarian Dances". Yes, even his music which is not explicitly named "Hungarian" sometimes sounds Hungarian. I wouldn't deny that. But aren't there others who might more deservingly wear the mantle of "Champion of Hungarian Music"? Maybe Liszt, maybe Bartok, or Kodaly? It would seem that Liszt presents himself as the aptest analogy to Coleridge-Taylor because he wrote or tried to write Hungarian music but he could not speak Hungarian fluently, which is to say that without his music he would have been something of outsider in Hungary. CT wanted to write music "of his blood" in the same way that Liszt did (although, in all likelihood, CT's connection to Africa or Sierra Leone was more tenuous than Liszt's to Hungary)... At any rate, if you think of it this way, Brahms is not even a candidate. Brahms wasn't Hungarian. Doesn't that settle it?

But good on you for posting an article on CT. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.241.160.176 (talk) 07:39, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

citation
Added citation supporting the statement about the immense popularity of Hiawatha's Wedding Feast, and for full disclosure I work for the non-profit educational resource linked to.Ribbonabaca (talk) 19:49, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

Inscription on the headstone
We;re saying the inscription on his headstone includes a quotation from the composition Hiawatha, in words written by his close friend and poet Alfred Noyes.

That suggests that Noyes wrote the words to the cantata. But Henry Wadsworth Longfellow did, not Noyes. We need to get clear about who wrote what on the headstone. --  Jack of Oz   [Talk]  20:40, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

Alice Hare Martin
It's well known that Martin's background is a little hazy - (http://www.billgreenwell.com/lost_lives/index.php?key_id=588 ) Can you reference the statement that 'Martin's brother was a professional musician'?) Do you mean a son of Holmans or a brother of Martin?  It is said that she was adopted and may have other siblings with the name of Martin.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by LRC Techie (talk • contribs) 15:26, 11 August 2014 (UTC)

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"Beethoven was black"
According to this piece in The Guardian, Coleridge -Taylor was responsible for suggestions that Beethoven was multiracial. Does his theory, which is still referred to today regardless of whether it was incorrect or not, merit inclusion in this article? JezGrove (talk) 21:11, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

African American?
Should tags relating to African Americans really be applied to a man of Krio and English parentage, who was raised in London? 192.5.110.7 (talk) 22:12, 24 March 2023 (UTC)

Background on his father's family
"Around the inevitable standpipe of fresh water at [the junction of Fourah Bay Road with Bombay Street, Freetown, Sierra Leone Colony] would gather the throng of women and children fetching water for their families. Near here also was the provision shop (grocery store) of Mr Amadu Taylor, barrister and businessman, whose uncle incidentally was the father of Samuel Coleridge-Taylor the famous Negro musician. He had a noted barrister son and was the first African to send his daughter to the United Kingdom to study medicine. Unfortunately she died on the eve of completing her training. This was before our time. But his shop was a mecca for us children. A penny there was well spent." – Robert Wellesley Cole, Kossoh Town Boy, Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1960 Harfarhs (talk) 14:57, 23 May 2023 (UTC)