Talk:Samyaza

Merger Proposal
I think the page Samyaza in popular culture should be merged into this one. Although it is a bit long for an in popular culture section, I think because we're talking about a literary/religious/cultural figure anyway, it makes sense to keep the popular culture in context. Other pages on angels and demons (e.g. Raziel) also do it this way, even when they have pretty long in popular culture sections. Thoughts?

Heliopolisfirebirdii (talk) 02:16, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

Shemyazaz or Samyaza
Why are we calling the title character of this article "Shemyazaz" when the article itself is called Samyaza?

I assume this spelling is an attempt to draw a connection to "Azazel". However, while the transliteration may seem similar to the Anglophone ear, in the original Aramaic (preserved in the Dead Sea Scrolls) the spellings are clearly dissimilar. שמיחזה vs. עשאל I don't know how they compare in the Ethiopic, but the Aramaic should be considered more authoritative. The resemblance between the names seems to be a result of the inability of the Greek to transcribe the Semitic gutterals. The standard academic transliteration of the Aramaic is Šemiḥazah. Blackjack@jolly-roger.com

The Ethiopic version I have which was translated in 1882 spells his name as Azâzêl and Semjâzâ respectively. But I'm quite happy to bow down to Blackjacks obvious superior knowledge and go along with Šemiḥazah. But while this is being discussed I've changed all Shemyazaz to Samyaza as this is the name of this article at this time. --Shimirel 01:04, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

-- Yes, thank you! by looking at the History of this article, you can see that I tried in vain to replace all the variant spellings with the spelling that is used in the title of this article. I gave up because user 204.210.177.115 felt it necessary to be inconsistent with article title and the name of the subject in the text. Mike H.

-- He hasn't changed it back at the moment but I've got a watch on so we shall see! I can't see having multiple versions of the name spread through out the document is of any use to anyone. Anyhow love your "rehabilitation for rapists" part of your user page couldn't agree more what are the chances of it becoming law though ;^)> Richard

Shemihazar seems to be the more likely translation in the Hebrew from Shemay(heaven) - gazar (to Snatch)the epithet that so befits this Zophim —The preceding unsigned comment was added by SB Habakuk (talk • contribs) 11:24, 8 November 2006.


 * The article already lists Shemhazai (meaning 'heaven-seizer') as an alternate name for satan. I've reverted all your edits as they aren't really todo with Samyaza neither is The Apocryphon of John. -- Shimirel (Talk) 21:29, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

The events surrounding the descent of the Zophim on Mt. Hermon is clearly defined by the ancient writers- the process of their descent is not. The Apocryphon of John clarifies this, even in scientific terms. If this article is not edited then edits must be placed on those describing the physical make up of angels for it is unlike man. They are not of the same molecular structure or carry similar physical attributes. Therefore for an angel to come into a woman; there must be some process of change on the part of angelic beings

Secondly if this event happened then why has it stopped? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by SB Habakuk (talk • contribs) 11:03, 9 November 2006.

Samyaza and Semyaza
Now to the best of my knowledge it appears these two refer to the same entity just under different names but it may be that the Ouza has got things confused somewhere along the line. Or not. At the very least there seems to be interesting information which contradits some t=of what is said here (especially about the etymology of the name) and I didn't want to put up merge suggestions until someone checked things through. (Emperor 01:57, 3 February 2007 (UTC))


 * Yes I seem to recall all those names being used to denote the same angel. I say merge it, the trouble is for every translation you have a slightly different version of the name. Probably if you did some research Ouza comes from one paticular translation. I know at least one name in the book of enoch is so damaged you couldn't even translate it properly doesn't stop them from trying though :( -- Shimirel (Talk) 11:56, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Innacurate information in this article
The article says: "Samyaza is most likely another name for Sheten (Heb: 'the adversary'), who was originally an entity created in the service of God; he was the caretaker of God's throne, but later fell from the heavens because of his pride according to Isaiah 14:12-15 and Ezekiel 28:12-18. Jesus states that he saw Heilil fall from heaven like lightning in Luke 10:18. "

Well, Isaïas 14 is about the king of Babylon, a powerful but mortal man. In fact, in Isaïas 14:12 the hebrew word used to designate the king is Halal, which means "Morning Star". In the fourth century, Saint Jerome translated it into Latin using the word Lucifer, whose original meaning in Latin in also "Morning Star". That is why the term Lucifer can be found in Isaïas 14:12 in the Roman Catholic Bible. However, most rader would not know the original meaning of the word Lucifer, used by Saint Jerome. So careful current translations of the Bible (or the ones that are not based on Saint Jerome's translation) use, in Isaïas 14:12, the expression "Morning Star".

Ezekiel 28:12-19 is about one of the kings of Tyr, again a powerful but mortal man.

Jesus in Luke 10:18 never said that he saw Halal (or Heilil) to fall from heavens. Luke was written in Greek, not Hebrew or Aramaic. The word used in Luke 10:18 is Satanas (a greek version of the hebrew word Satan).

Finally it is important to note that "Morning Star" was a honorific title, it is even used to refer to Jesus in the Apocalysis (for instance, Apo 22:16).


 * I deleted one sentence (the false etymology 'infamous rebellion') from the first paragraph. This etymology is not possible for two reasons: (1) there is a heth in "Shemyaza"; and (2) 'azaz' has an ayin which does not appear in "Shemyaza." M. Knibb's etymology is certainly correct.Renejs (talk) 16:14, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

Experimental side project
The article states: "Samyaza is also the name of an experimental side project from Casablanca, Morocco." An experimental side project, if I might ask, of who/what exactly? Theelf29 01:20, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

I wondered too. Since it has been more than a year with no answer, deleted. Darkpoet (talk) 02:59, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Samyaza and Ouza
This article should be merged with the article titled Ouza, as that is simply another name for the same being.

Shemyaza (the first to fall) not the adversary.
Shemyaza was one of the original angels sent to teach man about root cuttings, science, and magic. He was the one who fully accepted the blame for the sins of the fallen angels against God for the lustful desires they wished to persue through woman. He is not the devil from the garden of Eden. This beast is from before that time. The 6th day creation of man, not the 8th day creation of Et'Ha'Adam. He is the angel responsible for the giants of the book of Genesis. Not Satan, Satan is responsible for corrupting the line God made to bring the rest of man back from the error of their ways. When he corrupted Eve and Eve corrupted Adam. I think it necessary that you at least know the truth about the one you seek to learn about. I know him personally, and trust me when I tell you, it is an ancient evil. And you wanna stay as far away from Shemyaza, anything bearing a trident, and Watcher stuff as possible. I believe Shemyaza is one of the 7 demons of Faust, if I remember correctly. So be very careful, or you might lose something very valuable to you. And he'll take it too. But you can take it back, I did. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.153.48.25 (talk) 20:37, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

In Islam
In Tabaqat-i Nasiri by Minhaj-i-Siraj, it speaks of Samyaza, not as an angel, but as a ruler and descendant of Cain:

"In Unnush’s [Enosh’s] time a son of Adam named Nabaṭī [sic for al-Yaqza, the Watchers], with his children, retired to the mountains of Jarmūn [Hermon], and devoted themselves to religion, and many others joined him. From the death of Adam to this period, according to Abū Ma’shar-i-Munajjim, [quoted] in the Qānūn-al-mas‘ūdī [of al-Bīrūnī], was 432 years. After some time elapsed, Nabaṭī and his descendants came down from the mountains and joined the descendants of Ḳābīl [Cain], who had taken possession of the hills of Shām, and parts around, who had increased beyond computation. Iblīs [the Devil] had taught them the worship of fire; and drunkenness, and all sorts of other grievous sins prevailed among them. A thousand years had elapsed since Adam’s death, and the rebellious sons of Ḳābīl and Nabaṭī began to act tyrannically. They chose one of their number to rule over them, who was named Sāmīārush [Semjaza]; and between them and the other descendants of Adam, who were just persons, hostility and enmity arose.

The sons of Shīs [Seth], and others of Adam’s descendants who acknowledged Shīs’s authority, assembled, and chose one of the Kārānīān Maliks, who are styled the Bāstānīān Maliks, to defend them from the wickedness of the sons of Ḳābīl and Nabaṭī; and this, the first person among the upright and just kings whom they set up, is styled Aylūrūs [Aloros, the first antediluvian king of Babylon from Berossus] in the Yūnānī [Ionian; i.e., Greek] language; and the Yūnānīs say, that he is the same as he whom the ’Ajamīs call by the name of Gaiū-mart. He was entitled Gil-Shāh, and was the first king of the Gil-wānīān dynasty, which also named the Pesh-Dādīān, and Bāstānīān dynasty. When Aylūrūs became king, 1024 years had passed from the fall of Adam, and the land of Bābil became the seat of his government, and the just sons of Shīs, and other just descendants of Adam obeyed him. When 1162 years had passed away, the countries of ’Arab, ’Ajam, Shām, and Maghrab became settled; and according to the Qānūn-al-mas‘ūdī, previous to Nūh’s flood, eleven kings of the Gil-wānīān dynasty reigned." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.230.184.59 (talk) 00:54, 23 May 2017 (UTC)

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ALL THE SAME IN DIFFERENT WORDS!!

I thing that is the same story in differents points of view!! Semyaza is Satan; Satan is Lucifer!! the watchers are just another name for "angels"!! Jesus, Isaiah, Ezekiel are all talking about the same story but each one of them has given there interpretation!! just try to read it without given them nomes and you will see that is the same story!!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 177.192.71.33 (talk) 14:05, 9 August 2017 (UTC)

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Different incarnations!!!

In jewish tradition Satan/Samael/Samyaza/Uzza, etc... were different incarnation of the same been because in jewish tradition there is no such thing as a God adversary and that angel just takes different forms for different deeds; — Preceding unsigned comment added by 187.105.65.86 (talk) 12:52, 20 November 2017 (UTC)

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Al Uzza as an angel:

According to Isaac of Antioch, the pagan Arabs worshiped the Venus Star under the title Al‘Uzza “The Strong (Female)” and Syrian women ascended the roof tops to pray to the star to make them beautiful.

Grintz suggested that the Aza’el/Azazel or

Uza of 1Enoch 8:1

is none other than the goddess Al‘Uzza.

Indeed, Enoch tells that Aza’el taught men to make among

other things bracelets, and ornaments, and the use of anti- mony, and the beautifying of eyelids, and all kinds of costly stones, and all coloring tinctures. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 177.192.65.218 (talk) 23:06, 4 December 2017 (UTC)