Talk:San Bernardino, California/Archive 1

Gangs
I had to re-instate the gang violence. No one wants to recognize this issue that has gone way to far.

And I had to delete it. You'll need to restate it in your own words, without using the "we" format, and cite sources. Also, see Neutral point of view. RickK 09:35, Feb 6, 2005 (UTC)

Shouldn't something about the Hell's Angels be mentioned here?


 * If you have a source, go ahead and add whatever you think is appropriate. Be bold! Cheers, -Willmcw 22:18, 11 October 2005 (UTC)


 * The official website, and out own Hells Angels articles both say that the HAMC was founded in nearby Fontana. Is there also a special connection to San Bernardino? -Willmcw 22:29, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

The Hells Angels have had a house on Medical Center Drive, across from Community Hospital ever since I can remember==45+ years. 76.174.131.59 (talk) 17:15, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

I think that the neutrality of this page needs to be evaluated. I am not a San Bernardino resident, and I don't know a great deal about the city--but the first paragraph is VERY negative with no proven basis. -r&f


 * The city has a huge presence of poor (low income) white gangs and white supremacist organizations: The Aryan Low Riders based in the California Men's Colony-Chino State Prison, the California Golden Knights of the Ku Klux Klan headquarters in Fontana, the National Alliance of Southern California in Riverside, and the National Association for the Advancement of White People California HQ seem to gain a foothold in the San Bernardino-Riverside area (the Inland Empire). The region has a serious hate crime problem by members of mostly white gangs and hate groups react to middle-class blacks in formerly "all white" suburbs, Hispanic immigrants moved in large numbers to the area and many local Jews, Asian-Americans and openly gay (homosexuals) people are harrassed, verbally insulted, physically attacked or their property vandalized in high number in San Bernardino than anywhere else in Southern California. + 71.102.53.48 (talk) 01:03, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Porposing a page split
the article is huge! 63k. I'm intending to put the history of San Bernardino, which is about half the article into a seperate article to bring down the size to somethin more reasonable for dial-up users. I'll allow a week for discussion or silence before doing so.--Acebrock 01:50, 16 October 2006 (UTC)


 * That sounds like a good plan. You might write a one-paragraph summary of the key events to leave behind. -Will Beback 21:14, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Merge in: Westside San Bernardino, California
It seems this subject belongs as part of this parent article. I realize there is a comment about this article having grown too large, but all of the content of the Westside article is unverified and any of it could be scrapped. I intend to make this redirect/merger in 14 days from today. Alan.ca 20:49, 14 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree, for the same reasons. The Westside article seems superfluous. --Scraimer 02:23, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
 * It's been more than 14 days, and you haven't done this, so I am doing it. But the Westside San Bernardino article is has serious issues, so I will add the text here and it can be added to the main page if anyone can find some citationns. Adam 16:33, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

''Almost half of San Bernardino's homicides are related or in connection to Gangs. The Western district a small neighborhood West of the I 215 FRWY, Is home to most of the city's well established gangs. The neighborhood boundaries are 5th street (South) I 215 (East) Highland Ave. (North) and California street (West).''

''Most of the neighborhoods within the area are controlled by at least 20 organized gangs. The most infamous Chicano gang in the City is the 7th Street Gang which also claims territory in the Western District. Some of the cities most notorious African American gangs claim territory here which include the Delmann Height Bloods Gang, And the California Gardens Crips Gang. In total there are an estimated 13 organised African American gangs most of which are several sects of the Bloods and Crips gang which originated in Los Angeles and migrated to San Bernardino and other Southern California cities during the later 1970s and early 1980s.

''The area has been plagued by very high crime rates since the Crack-Cocaine era in the mid-1980s. During that decade (circa 1982-1995) homicide rates soared in the District prompting numerous calls for peace between the local gangs that where causing so much blood-shed over turf and Dope spots. In recent years Several California Gang Injunctions were issued for the local area gangs to quell the gangs activities, these state ordered injunctions curved crime considerably droping Homicide and Crime rates by as much as 50% in the area.''

''The area is heavily populated by African Americans and Mexican American families. It is impovershed with Median household incomes ranging between $11,000 to $23,498 (1999/2000). The community has limited viable family structures, a 30 percent high school graduation rate, few jobs, and a high rate of youth and family violence. It also has the highest rate of infant mortality in the state, the highest sexually transmitted disease rate for teenagers in the country, and its most poverty-stricken neighborhoods continue on a cycle of despair and apathy.''

Downtown San Bernardino
Could somebody look that article over. I removed all the copyvio I could find but I suspect the rest of it may be as well. Thanks. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 04:04, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Oberjuerge is notable?
Why is this non-notable person listed? He is an editor of one section of the local paper. If he is notable, then what about all the other sections of the paper? Is the Living section editor notable, too? I'm suggesting deleting this person from the section....Mracew (talk) 05:00, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree. There are probably several other people at The Sun or surrounding area newspapers that have had long careers. It seems rather assumptuous to only include him. Shinku Hisaki (talk) 03:49, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

New vandalism
This page has a lot of vandalism, I just added it to my watchlist. There is something wierd going here some contributers are adding false info we need to keep an eye out and watch this article. MountCan (talk) 21:40, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Could someone cheak this user IP address: 71.104.213.183? He's changing my edits and writing fake information some one should do something or I will contact an admin. at once. MountCan (talk) 00:34, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Public safety
There's been a flurry of changes to the Public safety section. Can we stop deleting and start adding? I see no reason to delete referenced paragraphs in favor of new material. Blend the new material in with what was there before. Binksternet (talk) 00:45, 28 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Who decided to add that non-relevant section anyways? Honestly I cannot believe the things I have been reading every time I check in on the San Bernardino page. Some things don't even make sense and its very obvious and apparent to me that whoever decided to add there irrelevant contribution on the so called "ethnics Demographics" section is not from this city and does not know anything about it period. I had my contribution on there for months on end with out some ignorant jerk coming in and changing/deleting everything I wrote. I was born and raised here and truly believe that my write up is far more informational and accurate than the gibberish that person keeps writing. So I request the administrator to please keep an eye on this person.


 * I also am irritated by the fact that most likely the same person who is deleting my contribution is also adding there irrelevant section they made up as "Public Safety" I also have had my contribution on that section for months with out any interference and I believe it should remain as is since its a serious problem in the city that NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED. So please refrain from touching that section. This is not an attack on anyone on here I'm just stating my frustration with some people on this website and the lack of cooperation the administrators on here have with issues like these.


 * The following are my contributions.


 * Crime & Public safety

San Bernardino has long battled with crime, blight and poverty. According to the Morgan Quitno Press, a book publisher, it was the #16 most dangerous US city in 2003, #18 in 2004, and #24 in 2005. San Bernardino's murder rate per capita was 31.3 per 100,000 in 2005. The 13th highest murder rate in the country and the third highest in the state of California behind Compton & Richmond respectively.

---

Ethnics

Once given the nickname "Iowa under Palm trees" until the 1930s before major migrations of Mexicans, Black Americans from the southern states and other immigrants from Europe and later the Asian continent occurred to gave a more ethnic and cultural diverse flavor in the city. San Bernardino is one of Southern California's most "majority minority" diverse cities.[citation needed]

Large parts of Western,Central & Eastern San Bernardino are home to mixed ethnic populations of low-income, of which the Latino & African American population dominates. Historically, many Latinos, primarily Mexican-Americans and Mexicans lived on Mount Vernon Avenue, while the East Base Line section was mostly black since the 1960s, particularly in an area centering around a public housing project called Waterman Gardens. The heart of the African American community is on the Westside of San Bernardino.


 * The following is what they wrote. All they did was delete a large portion of what I said and added there own and took credit for the rest of what I wrote. The new information makes no sense as he or she stated that there is a broad mix of ethnic populations "including" latinos and african americans?? That does not make any sense whatsoever. As there is no "broad mix" of anything. I can tell that person is not from this city as they would no that large portions are home to predominately Latinos and African American populations. There is no broad of anything.

Ethnic diversity

Parts of western, eastern, and central San Bernardino are now home to a broad mix of ethnic populations, including Latinos and African-Americans.--Robert jones 714 (talk) 17:39, 30 July 2008 (UTC)[citation needed]

Historically, many Latinos, primarily Mexican-Americans and Mexican nationals, lived on and around Mount Vernon Avenue, while African-Americans were concentrated in the East Base Line area, especially in and around Waterman Gardens. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Robert jones 714 (talk • contribs) 17:16, 30 July 2008 (UTC)


 * The sections you added don't gain credibility by the amount of time they stay up on Wikipedia. They gain credibility by citing references. What are the books, papers and analyses you are getting the information from? We need to see where these statements come from. I was born at St. Bernardine's more than a few decades ago and I am quite aware of the problems the city has. Your wish to have the problems addressed will be best met by a well-written, well-sourced article here. Find some studies that have been done and quote them. Binksternet (talk) 17:32, 30 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Well since you seem to not understand and cooperate with what I'm writing on the San Bernardino page, then where are your so called "citations"? I don't see any whatsoever. Yet you want to criticize my contribution about not doing so? How hypocritical. This is all public information and I will get the articles to back my post. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Robert jones 714 (talk • contribs) 17:42, 30 July 2008 (UTC)


 * The article will benefit from your effort. As far as me citing things goes, I entered one reference for the city having 13 fire stations at the same time that I deleted the unnecessary sentence about the fire department not being simply a volunteer group. I tagged two other paragraphs that need citations. If those two paragraphs don't get backed up by hard data, they will be deleted. By the way, I googled "Iowa under the palm trees" and all that came up was a Time magazine article about Fresno. "Iowa under palm trees" (no 'the') gave me Ontario, CA and Long Beach, CA wiki articles plus a handful of websites that quote this page, a demonstration of how much poisoning of the online sources can be caused by a wikipedia entry. Do you have a book or paper that calls San Bernardino "Iowa under palm trees"? Binksternet (talk) 18:09, 30 July 2008 (UTC)


 * "Iowa under palm trees" is a quote I got from the "Historical Treasures of San Bernardino" series from a while back, long time elder residents have infact coined that phrase from that certain time period. It's more a saying rather than based on a offical name for a certain place as well, and can be found to refer to various other cities in Southern California at the time--Robert jones 714 (talk) 18:21, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Crime stats
The Morgan Quitno page on Wikipedia doesn't list San Bernardino in the top 25 most dangerous cities in the year 2007. However, the Morgan Quitno website lists Berdoo at 24th. Are the Morgan Quitno website stats referring to one year prior, making the 2007 press release ranking applicable to 2006 stats? Is the Morgan Quitno Wiki page wrong? I understand from looking around the web that Berdoo has ranked poorly for years, but has slightly improved in the last three. The ranking for worst city went from 16th in 2004 to 18th in 2005 to 24th in 2006. Anybody know San Bernardino's actual rank as of 2007?

Other interesting tidbits about San Bernardino crime: Binksternet (talk) 19:47, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Suit: Crime stats fudged. "In a lawsuit filed in San Bernardino Superior Court on April 25 [2006] and received by the city on Thursday, Jennifer Carrigan alleges that during her tenure as a records clerk, between August 2002 and January 2005, her supervisors, Capt. Steve Klettenberg and John Block, a manager in the police records department, instructed her to "delete and remove reports involving (police) officers" and to not include reports of certain offenses to influence the crime statistics."
 * The Press Enterprise. June 3, 2007. Berdoo Bear getting final touches for grand debut "...But increased police patrols, funded largely by officer overtime, paid off in 2006 with a better than 14 percent reduction in serious crime citywide."
 * Morgan Quitno 2007 San Bernardino 24th worst city in 2006
 * Morgan Quitno 2006 San Bernardino 18th worst city in 2005
 * Morgan Quitno 2005 San Bernardino 16th worst city in 2004
 * Morgan Quitno 2004 San Bernardino not shown here
 * Morgan Quitno 2003 San Bernardino not shown here
 * Morgan Quitno 2002 San Bernardino 52nd worst
 * Morgan Quitno 2001 San Bernardino 68th worst
 * Morgan Quitno 2001 San Bernardino 7th "most improved"
 * Morgan Quitno 2000 San Bernardino 38th worst
 * Morgan Quitno 1999 San Bernardino 35th worst
 * Morgan Quitno 1997 San Bernardino 25th worst
 * Morgan Quitno 1995 San Bernardino 17th worst

The cities Police Department has always misreported murders, crime and anything that might make it look like there not doing there job properly. I for one know first hand the malice at the core of this city and the people who unlawfully run it. Shame on this city, pardon if I'm getting off track but its the truth, who knows how accurate these rankings even are. The SBPD has always tried to not call a homicide a homicide.

As for the ranking for 2007, apparently it went down to 42nd. Those statistics are based on crime rates which also inlcude petty things. San Bernardino's murder rate has been consistently and considerably much higher than the national average since the early 1980's. Murder rate and crime statistics are two different things. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Robert jones 714 (talk • contribs) 21:15, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Please work together
Could the editors of this article please try to find common ground? Let's all try to stick to the job here, which is verifiably summarizing reliable sources using the neutral point of view. When there are two verifiably-sourced points of view we can include them both, each presented without endorsement. (As Yogi Berra said, "When you come to a fork in the road take it.) Let's try to avoid removing any sourced information unless a good reason is given. It's often a good idea to propose edits on this talk page before adding them to the article. If we're all civil and avoid revert wars it'll be much easier. ·:· Will Beback  ·:· 05:15, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

I have made a new montage for the city...
here it is .... House1090 (talk) 02:33, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

I wil be requesting a re-assessment on this article
I will not request it unil Thursday, please comment on whether I should request it be a high importance artile like cities like Irvine, California. Please comment —Preceding unsigned comment added by House1090 (talk • contribs) 17:47, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Live, hail, or from San Bernardino?...
House1090 (talk) 23:14, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Snow pictures
Why are virtually all the photos on this page of snowfall? It's an incredibly rare event in San Bernardino and not indicative of much of anything. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.245.21.197 (talk) 14:15, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Exactly. I just took out two of three such images. Binksternet (talk) 16:39, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

I currently readded one, any comments or questiona contact me please. -House1090 (talk to me here) 00:33, 11 March 2009 (UTC)


 * There need only be one. I took out the other, since I'm not married to any of the snow pictures. Binksternet (talk) 01:10, 11 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Concur with Bink. Amerique dialectics 01:34, 11 March 2009 (UTC)


 * ok good with me. -House1090 talk to me here 20:48, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

Lists of shopping centers and numbers of people in institutions
I removed two lists, one that gave the reader the number of people currently living in various institutions in the city, the other a list of shopping centers. The reason I deleted the shopping centers is that there was no encyclopedic content: no links, no history, no explanation. The same reason is why I got rid of the raw numbers of people living in group housing such as prisons and halfway houses—there was no text offered in explanation of why the people live there, what the situation was in the past, what the city is planning for the future—nothing. I feel that this is an encyclopedia article where facts are interpreted for the reader, not the online repository for what could become an overwhelming amount of raw data. Binksternet (talk) 04:07, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

San Bernardino demographics
I have to take issue with the blatant misinformation that is being presented as fact here regarding San Bernardino's demographics. To be specific regarding the Caucasian or white population percentile in the city. I find there to be a rather significant error in the information that was provided. This is a section from the aforementioned.

"As reported in the 2005-2007 American Community Survey Estimates, the city's population was 58.4% White (White alone or in combination with another race)"

This is a highly conspicuous error that needs to be corrected as it is demonstrably falsified information akin to misleading the general public in a seemingly deliberate fashion. (or simply an error on the users part.)

According to the 2007 numbers San Bernardino had approx. (28.9%)White Non-Hispanic. How then, did this percentile jump from 28.9% of the population to more than half (58.4%) of the cities populace in less than 2 years? Have I missed something? This is an extraordinary growth rate and unless there has been a mass exodus of whites into the city that has gone unseen, their is something obviously in error here that needs to be attended to.

The 2007 data can be found here. 

This particular source list that 28.9% white non-hispanic make up of the city, while other sources are actually indicating that this percentile is steadily decreasing. The fact remains that in the city of San Bernardino the white populace, as indicated by statistical data, is indeed diminishing. Completely contrary to the dubious nformation that is being presented in this section.

 Update: After doing some quick research I have now seen the initial error of the original user simply being the product of confusing the County population data with that of the city population data.


 * Actually, Robert jones 714, I did not confuse city with county. I used this census source and everything I wrote is present there. That report has wa-a-ay too much detail, so we just pick the main facts. One main fact that you might have wanted to include in the article was one I chose not to: percentage of population reporting as pure white. In my source, it says 22.0% whites of unmixed race (not including white Spanish people), 14.9% African American of all-black heritage (though a widespread awareness of 200 year old family history would probably change the reporting of this), 57.2% Hispanic/Latino and 4.1% pure Asian race. The information is not dubious, it's just presented in a way that isn't traditional, where the totals are greater than 100% because a number of people report having more than one race. Your city-data source says 28.9% white, but I say that the Federal census is more reliable. Binksternet (talk) 00:07, 25 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Binksternet, I came across the same data, although not from the same source (census.gov) but nonetheless the same set of data. However the presented information did not allude to the specific percentile of 58.4%, it was indeed 22.0%. Moreover if you look up the County demographics, this is the percentile you will be presented with. (58.4%) which logically led me to conclude that the county demographics had been mistaken for the city. --Robert jones 714 (talk) 02:25, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Devore
why isn't devore included as a neighborhood of san bernardino. even though it is unicorporated, it is in its sphere of influence just like muscoy. - signed by anon IP


 * You need to sign your name and I already added Devore. House1090 (talk) 00:55, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Reorganization
PLease use the following link (shortcut on the right hand side of your screen) so we can reorganize the article, similar to the reorganization of Riverside, California. This is a part of WikiProject Inland Empire. House1090 (talk) 19:44, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

talk page templates
i updated them, namely taking off the part asking for photos and an infobox since i do see both present on the main article page. not to say that if better photos or infobox format are agreed upon, they shouldn't be updated. but those are now done as far as things needing to be done for this article. Snoopyloopy (talk) 23:07, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Switch infobox to use miles
Would someone more knowledgeable then myself get the infobox to display miles as the default unit of length instead of kilometers? San Bernardino is in the USA and the standard unit of length would be miles and not kilometers. 98.210.238.41 (talk) 22:32, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Never mind. 98.210.238.41 (talk) 22:37, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Annexation of arrowhead springs
why is there no mention of the annexation of arrowhead springs into san bernardino. this will add 1500 acres into san bernardino which is approximately 2.34375 Square Miles. the city is also going to add 6 other islands which by law are not bigger than 300 acres.http://www.sbsun.com/ci_13794765?source=rss and the actual size of these islands are located at http://www.sbcounty.gov/lafco/agendas/2009_nov18/nov18_agenda.htm they are annexations 360 and 361 (agenda 7 and 8)75.24.247.199 (talk) 07:42, 16 November 2009 (UTC)


 * total additional size for this area is 2.88 square miles making san bernardino 81.68 square miles after January the first or next year.

Javiern (talk) 07:54, 16 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Larger than Riverside, CA. I will look into this more, I thought AS was already part of the city. I heard Devore and Muscoy were also going to be annexed, and part of the city of SB. House1090 (talk) 22:24, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Officially annexed,change the number of square miles on city page. House1090 (talk) 01:08, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

EastWest Boys are notable?
Why are two EastWest Boys listed as notable people? I don't think members of obscure bands really count as notable, especially when that band doesn't even have a wikipedia page. It's like listing random american idol contestants as notable people. 76.123.112.144 (talk) 13:02, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Metrolink
I don't quite understand the Metrolink table under public transportation. Why is the Riverside line mentioned? It does not go to San Bernardino (here is where the line goes.) Thanks, Alanraywiki (talk) 02:26, 27 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Trains go from SB to Orange County via Riverside. Eeekster (talk) 02:29, 27 January 2010 (UTC)


 * The IEOC Line goes from San Bernardino to Oceanside, I believe. House1090 (talk) 04:35, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Notable natives and residents section
Randy Rhoads no doubt notable, was born in Santa Monica and is interred in San Bernardino. My question, does being buried in a city your not from qualify as a resident ? Mlpearc  powwow  03:55, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

the fate of the Serrano
The article Serrano_(people) makes no mention of the 1866 slaughter and neither does the timeline article. Are the events of 1866 documented (there is no article on the chief named?) G. Robert Shiplett 14:47, 21 December 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Grshiplett (talk • contribs)


 * Using a tool called "article blamer", I found that the bit about Serranos getting massacred first appeared in this edit by IP editor 71.104.213.183; one of a long string he or she made on the Berdoo article in July 2008. Other things the IP editor did during that month was to remove large sections about crime and gangs, and expand the information about parks.
 * Using Google Book search, I found a relevant book called Native American basketry of Southern California, ISBN 0935661204. On page 113 the books says that the year 1866 included the killing of three cowboys by unidentified natives at Las Flores Ranch in Summit Valley up in the mountains north of San Bernardino, the area of the Serranos. I cannot read the rest of the "snippet" offered by Google, but the section's main focus is on the abuse suffered by the Serranos at the hands of Anglos, so I can guess that the book goes on to say that the dead cowboys were the catalyst of a vengeful Anglo reaction, possibly the "slaughter" referred to by the IP editor. My other attempts to get a confirmation of 1866 slaughter came to naught. Binksternet (talk) 20:14, 21 December 2011 (UTC)


 * The Russell Keller book Big Bear says that the Serrano "existence was shattered in the 1840s when a party lead by Benjamin Davis Wilson chased marauding Native Americans through" Bear Valley up in the Big Bear area. I wonder at the "marauding" designation if this Anglo expedition had never been to the area before this time. Perhaps the expedition suffered from predations and chased the offenders. Or perhaps the chased parties became "marauders" in the retelling. At any rate, I don't know if the chase involved killing Serrano people. Binksternet (talk) 20:24, 21 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Getting closer: Gerald McMaster and Clifford E. Trafzer wrote in 2008 (Native Universe: Voices of Indian America, ISBN 1426203357) that "militia forces fighting hostile Chemehuevi turned their guns on peaceful Serrano Indians during a thirty-two day campaign that resulted in the death of men, women and children and the forced removal of the Serrano from the mountains of their origins." McMaster and Trafzer do not say what year this happened, but the basketry book listed above says the 32-day militia action which "indiscriminately killed all Indians... encountered in the mountain area" resulted in the few survivors going to San Manuel reservation in 1876. McMaster and Trafzer cite a manuscript at the Smiley Library in Redlands.
 * Author Francis J. Johnston writing The Serrano Indians of Southern California for the Malki Museum Press in 1973 said "As a result, the male white population of San Bernardino Valley formed militia units to eliminate the Indians from the mountains. It is most likely the raiders were Paiutes or Chemehuevi and not Takhtam. But the white men made no distinction and in a thirty-two day campaign killed most of the Indians in the mountain areas where they were encountered in their clan or lineage groups."
 * This history webpage published by the San Manuel Band of Mission Indians appears to be the source for the 1866 story about a 32-day militia action. There is no cited footnote on the webpage. Binksternet (talk) 21:00, 21 December 2011 (UTC)


 * The militia action may have been in 1867, according to an 1890 book called An illustrated history of Southern California. (Relevant parts of this book can be found online here and elsewhere.) The book describes an aggressive ranger action in February 1867, killing four natives in a fight with 100. On March 25, 1867, three Mormon ranch hands, Ed Parrish, Pratt Whiteside, and Nephi Bemis, were killed by natives as they rounded up stray cattle. These were the Las Flores Ranch cowboys mentioned above. Cindy Lazenby puts this particular attack at Chimney Rock in Lucerne Valley, directly north of Big Bear, and in 1866. In April 1867, according to the 1890 book, likely in retribution for the Parrish/Whiteside/Bemis killings, a "small company" found a native settlement and massacred the residents. Lazenby also refers to this as a 32-day campaign, and gives much more detail on who was in the posse and what they experienced. Binksternet (talk) 21:31, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

Geo Location template location
Please note that WP:FOOTERS and WP:WikiProject_Cities/US_Guideline puts the geolocation template in the footer section.--S. Rich (talk) 19:58, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

Los Angeles
Regarding my edits to San Bernardino, which were reverted and then restored by another user: —&#91;  Alan M 1  (talk) &#93;— 17:16, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
 * The lead sentence in Greater Los Angeles Area explains why it's relevant. It's a Combined Statistical Area used for many demographic purposes. Los Angeles is also a more widely-known city, so it's useful for people unfamiliar with California to know approximately where Sbdo is. This is also the reason to mention the distance from the CSA's namesake, Los Angeles – it's internationally recognized.
 * "City of its size" is more specific than just "major city". I believe I researched the actual meaning from the source specifically because "major city" was vague.


 * There are two completely different definitions in play at Greater Los Angeles Area—the article mixes and confuses them. At Talk:Greater Los Angeles Area I have proposed a split of the article into two definitions, one being the popular but ill-defined "Greater Los Angeles" which most often does not include San Bernardino or Riverside, and the federal census designation of the five-county combined statistical area which extends eastward to the Arizona–Nevada border. Yes, San Bernardino is within the latter definition, but the federal census designation is not so important that it be positioned at the top of the article. The CSA definition is merely a convenience for the US Office of Management and Budget; it does not reverberate with popular thought. Binksternet (talk) 17:47, 2 December 2012 (UTC)


 * I'm afraid the last sentence is something that people may reasonably disagree with. I live in Rancho Cucamonga, and have worked around the country and around the world. When talking to people outside California (or maybe outside CA/NV/AZ), I say I live in the "LA area" because I've found that is what is necessary to give them a reasonable mental picture of where I live. Despite it's size, San Bernardino (city and county) is simply not well known outside southern CA, in my experience. While this is WP:OR, it's also justified by the definition of the CSA (your characterization of the lack of importance of which is also WP:OR ), as well as (apparently) the view of the original contributor of the term to the article, and the IP editor that performed the last un-revert. I'm sure that it would be easy enough to find sources that put San Bernardino in "the LA area" as well as sources that do not – it's about context, purpose, and audience. In this case, for an article that is designed for a worldwide audience, I believe it is necessary, and have to ask "what's the harm?" —&#91;  Alan M 1  (talk) &#93;— 15:55, 3 December 2012 (UTC)


 * After the split is performed at the Greater Los Angeles Area article, this city article would be modified to say that San Bernardino is in the Los Angeles-Long Beach-Riverside, CA Combined Statistical Area, or perhaps the Greater Los Angeles Combined Statistical Area, as defined by and for the federal census. There's no harm in saying that Berdoo is near L.A., or within L.A.'s sphere of economic or cultural influence, but there is inaccuracy in saying that "Greater Los Angeles" always includes Berdoo when it does not. A fine example of the latter case is the EPA's definition of the Greater Los Angeles Area; this provides us with conflicting federal definitions and muddies the waters.
 * If one can say that I grew up then that growing up period happened in Rialto following my birth in a San Bernardino hospital. During that time (before the Metrolink, when dinosaurs roamed the earth) the "Inland Empire" was all one saw and heard in advertisements directed at the larger region. Greater L.A. was in the remote West, somewhere in the distance down Foothill Blvd past Fontana's Kaiser Steel smog pall and Ontario's attempt to outdo Indianapolis. (That's the extent of my original research, everything else is from reliable online sources.)
 * All I want to do here is to separate the census designation from the popular concept, no more than that. I'm not trying to keep poor San Bernardino from catching a bit of reflected light from Greater L.A. Binksternet (talk) 16:54, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

Neighborhoods and districts
At San Bernardino, the last sentence is:


 * San Bernardino has three unincorporated communities known for residences of millionaires and increasingly affluent sections of town: Del Rosa, Muscoy, University Heights (Kendall Farms) and University Hills, and Verdemont.

Aside from the awkward phrasing, 5 (not 3) places are listed, and at least some of them are part of the city (i.e. they are not unincorporated communities). Would someone research and correct this? —&#91;  Alan M 1  (talk) &#93;— 10:06, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

Muscot
At San Bernardino, there is the statement:
 * while the Medical Center (formerly known as Muscot) and Base Line corridors were mostly black since the 1960s

If you Google for "Muscot" and trim out the wiki copies, there are only two relevant hits, which I can guess are typos. Is this meant to say "Muscoy"? The area currently called Muscoy appears to be somewhat northwest of what I assume to be the "Medical Center" district (c. Medical Center Dr. & 16th St.) so it's not obvious whether this was the intent. —&#91;  Alan M 1  (talk) &#93;— 10:08, 7 December 2012 (UTC)


 * "Muscot" seems like a mistake or someone's very local nickname. It should go. The bit about "corridors" of black residences is probably original research; it is not based on the cited references. Binksternet (talk) 16:50, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

Bankruptcy
There are two different areas that talk about San Bernardino being the largest city ever to file for bankruptcy. However, in one of the cited articles, it states that Stockton (with a population of 300,000) is the largest ever. - WMK — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.43.83.2 (talk) 20:29, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

Ironically, San Bernardino and nearby Riverside were among the nation's richest cities in the 1930s and WWII era (1940-45). What happened to the Inland Empire's economy in recent years: instead of full-fledged growth, the two main cities were into decline and SBDO went into bankruptcy. Actually it is Detroit and Orange County (1994) that have two bigger bankruptcies. 71.102.1.95 (talk) 14:46, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

Crime rates
San Bernardino is ranked in the top 5 most dangerous cities in California. It may be behind Oakland, Stockton and Compton, and surprisingly Desert Hot Springs near Palm Springs, but San Bernardino holds a local reputation of criminal activity. San Bernardino might been an All-American City in the mid 1980s, then again SBDO is an example of urban blight. 71.102.1.95 (talk) 14:48, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

New Schools
Hey guys, I was wondering if we can mention about the new schools that are being constructed in San Bernardino. I find them important now since San Bernardino are in bankruptcy recently. For example, the San Bernardino City Unified School District opened up a new school called Indian Springs High School with Alan Kay as the principal in August first. The school was built with state funds cost 68 million. This new High School emphasize science, technology, engineering and math helping students to get interested in the subject and move on to college rather than just receiving their diploma. This school mimics everything about college. Instead of going to class everyday for an hour, they would have classes at certain days for two hours just like in college. The purpose of this school is to get kids inspire and ready after High School. - signed by anon IP

An article was made for Indian Springs High School. Indian Springs High school is close to the neighboring city of Highland. Unlike the city government, the school district isn't bankrupt. 71.102.1.95 (talk) 14:51, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

Structure
Hi. I'm going through all the US Cities (as per List of United States cities by population) in an effort to provide some uniformity in structure. Anyone have an issue with me restructuring this article as per WikiProject Cities/US Guideline. I won't be changing any content, merely the order. Occasionally, I will also move a picture just to clean up spacing issues. I've already gone through the top 20 or so on the above list, if you'd like to see how they turned out. Thoughts? Onel5969 (talk) 16:23, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

Climate
I don't think San Bernardino's climate is Continental Mediterranean (Köppen climate classification Dsa, Dsb, Dsc), typical of, say, Madrid, Spain. The winters in SB are not that cold and it does receive substantial winter rain. An occassional snowfall doesn't make it continental. Koppenlady (talk) 23:32, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Temperatures are cool like Madrid's, the San Bernardino Foothills have some of SoCal's coolest weather, that is not the mountains. But the Continental Mediterranean climate is not every where in SoCal only in the SB Foothills and the High Desert, and Isolated parts of the Inland Empire Metroplex. House1090 (talk) 04:32, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I've just noticed this discussion and I'm with Koppenlady on this. While San Bernardino's temperatures may fit with a Continental Mediterranean climate the precipitation patterns does not. Peaks of precip. in a Continental Mediterranean climate are in the spring and fall, which is why it's so rare. SB's peak of precip is clearly in the winter.(G. Capo (talk) 22:03, 6 January 2010 (UTC))
 * Actually, this discussion has been a bit of red herring! Koeppen's Dsa is *not* Mediterranean and is not found in the Mediterranean regions (see Talk:Continental Mediterranean climate). The article Continental Mediterranean climate has been adjusted to reflect that it is a variation to the Csa climate, with continental characteristics due to the higher altitudes and distance from the effects of the sea. In this sense, both Madrid and San Bernardino fit the description, although you are correct about the different precip patterns. Koppenlady (talk) 00:13, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
 * There's no such thing as a continental Mediterranean climate. That article is now a redirect to the dry-summer section of continental climate, as that's what many people mean when they wrongly say 'continental Mediterranean'. Continental and Mediterranean are two separate classifications. A continental climate must have at least one month in which the 24h average temperature is below zero. A dry summer continental climate exists at places of high altitude that are near to Mediterranean climates - for example, parts of the high ground in Turkey. Neither San Bernardino, nor Madrid are anywhere near that. Both have a hot-summer Mediterranean climate and are near the boundary with a semi-arid climate. The snowy picture in the climate section of this article is misleading. Snow is rare, and when it does happen, it melts quickly because winter days are warm. Jim Michael (talk) 19:36, 27 October 2014 (UTC)