Talk:San Francisco tech bus protests/GA1

GA Review
The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.''

Reviewer: Epicgenius (talk · contribs) 02:33, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

I will review this article. I'll make some more comments later, but this is from a cursory examination of the article. epicgenius (talk) 02:33, 17 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I look forward to working with you on this nomination!      Spintendo       02:43, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

I will make comments as I go.

Main comments
Images
 * All appropriately licensed, though adding alt text would be preferable.

Infobox Lead
 * The "commuter shuttle program" links to another page, even though it is mentioned later in the article. Maybe this link can be changed to an intra-article link to Google bus protests?
 * Link changed to subsection lower in the article
 * The list of parties to this conflict is not particularly accessible to those with screen readers, plus the formatting is off (e.g. Yahoo! is spaced much further down from the rest of the tech companies). This could be solved using a plainlist.
 * I'm not sure if I got the formatting correct. Check again and let me know if its still not viewable
 * OK, I formatted it a bit more. I replaced the line breaks with a plainlist. epicgenius (talk) 17:17, 19 February 2018 (UTC)
 * community based should contain a hyphen since this is a single phrase used as an adjective.
 * hypen added
 * Some of these references are used only in the lead. I think you can move these references down to the body, as well as some of the details that these sources support. For instance, the commuters driving by themselves would be a good detail to add to the body.
 * Im not sure which references should be moved and which statements could remain, so I moved what was in the lead to a lower paragraph and rewrote the lead without references, using information already cited elsewhere.
 * The lead should contain some details of actions taken during the protests.
 * Rewrote a brief synopsis of the protests
 * OK, but now the lead is missing the dates on which the protests ended. epicgenius (talk) 17:17, 19 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Could the commuter shuttle program be briefly described? One sentence about the program, and how it helped stop the protests, would be essential to the lead.
 * Briefly described

Background
 * pars pro toto means "parts of the whole". I interpreted that to mean that these buses aren't strictly operated by Google, so there are also Facebook buses. However, this article doesn't make that clear, so I was confused at the mention of Apple, Facebook, etc. at first.
 * Latin term returned to the lead section as the second sentence.

Transportation needs
 * What is the purpose of including the names of these authors? Are they notable? Generally, if these writers are not notable, or authorities on their respective topics, or mentioned multiple times in the article, the names of authors wouldn't be included in the prose.
 * Author's names removed
 * These inadequate links between San Francisco and Silicon Valley workplaces became a leading factor in the initial acceptance in 2008 by Silicon Valley employers of Google buses as viable alternatives for transportation - this is awkwardly worded. How about this: "These inadequate links between San Francisco and Silicon Valley workplaces became a leading factor in Silicon Valley employers' 2008 acceptance of Google buses as viable alternatives for transportation".
 * Rephrase implemented
 * So, did these services actually start in 2008? Or was the concept just thought up by then, and the implementation rolled-out later? If it was the former, you can state that.
 * Started in 2005 with perhaps one company, then slowly, additional companies starting using them. By 2008 they were well established and visible every day on streets in SF. From 2008 till 2013 they operated without mass opprobrium (which, just like the shuttles themselves, first started with one or two groups, then slowly grew to become a large concerted group of many many activist groups working singularly or together in opposition.) Media focus came in 2013-2014. Changed sentence to say leading factor in Silicon Valley employers' 2008 acceptance implementation of Google buses
 * It seems like the services became widely used by 2008. I couldn't find any mention of this in the reference, though. epicgenius (talk) 17:17, 19 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Are there any figures on the ridership of existing systems (e.g. BART, Muni bus/tram) before the buses were implemented?
 * Approx 80,000 people commute in and out of SF each morning on the transports shown below, for 2010 and 2015. (AM only)


 * Thanks. I was thinking maybe the Google Buses' ridership can be compared to the mass transit figures. It looks like BART usage went up a lot, and Muni Metro went up less. If there are any pre-2008 figures, this would show even more of a contrast. epicgenius (talk) 17:17, 19 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Ridership on the Google buses wasn't tracked before 2014, so that figure cannot be known. The other ridership profiles from pre-2010 I'm sure I can find.
 * OK, just let me know if you can find that info. epicgenius (talk) 22:42, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I was able to find figures for the year 2000, but the numbers represented totals used per year, and these figures used above were totals for an average weekday during the AM commute. Unfortunately, the company that put together this last report with all the nice data weren't the ones doing reports 20 years ago. I've noticed that as far as reportmaking goes, traffic wardens such as SFMTA are really big on future projections. Past data, and finding it easily, is a task which apparently does not concern them too much, as it is not as easily found.       Spintendo       03:46, 1 March 2018 (UTC)

Gentrification
 * namely, gentrification - The comma isn't needed here.
 * Removed
 * coupled with the suburban locations of tech companies - There should be two commas around this phrase. otherwise, it's a run-on.
 * Added
 * served to isolate tech workers from other San Francisco residents, in a manner similar to gated communities - On the other hand, the comma wouldn't be needed if you added commas around the above phrase.
 * Check the commas here, I reworded a bit and added some.
 * I meant something like this, which reads more smoothly.
 * On another note, are there any figures on fares? This would be really good for explaining the gentrification aspect. A bus that charges $6.50 per fare (like the express bus fare in NYC) would be very controversial indeed.
 * Regarding Google buses, riders of the Google buses do not pay for their use of the shuttles. This is considered to be provided by their employers for them without cost. The company pays the city of San Francisco a fee, $7.31 per stop, regardless of who gets off or gets on. The city considers this to be payment for use of the stop. Regarding city buses, the average citizen who rides the city bus must pay to use the city bus. Their fee is $2.75 for a regular fare one way. Regular citizens are not allowed to ride on the Google buses, if they attempt to board, which they did during the protests, they are barred from entry. Only employees of the tech companies providing the shuttles are allowed to travel using the Google buses. During one of the protests, an activist group tried passing out what they called "Gmuni" passes. They said that these passes would allow regular people to ride the Google buses for free. But of course the passes didnt work, and they werent allowed on board. The Gmuni program was an April Fools Day themed protest. Video footage of it is in the External links section.
 * That's interesting. I've never heard of a pay-per-stop funding format. Were there any figures for per-stop payments before this? If not, then thay's fine. epicgenius (talk) 17:17, 19 February 2018 (UTC)
 * The city did not collect fees from the shuttles before 2014. According to the city's information:"Under California state law, permit programs are cost-recovery, so fee revenues must be used only for administration of the permit program. The permit fee for participation in the Commuter Shuttle Program is $7.31 per stop event and will continue at this rate under the proposed legislation. The fee will be reviewed and adjusted if necessary as part of the two-year SFMTA budget process. Prior to August 2014, San Francisco did not regulate or collect fees from commuter shuttles. Shuttles operated throughout the City on both large arterial and small non-arterial streets. Shuttles loaded and unloaded passengers in a variety of places whether it was legal or not, including white loading zones, red Muni zones, and other vacant curb spaces. When curb space was unavailable, shuttles often would load or unload passengers in the travel lane. The lack of rules for where and when loading and unloading were permitted resulted in confusion for shuttle operators and neighbors, inconsistent enforcement, and real and perceived conflicts with other transportation modes. Thus, when Google buses finally gave way to commuter shuttles, the era of uncoordinated confusion was ultimately vanquished by a calm collection of fees."      Spintendo       08:00, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
 * What you just wrote would actually be pretty helpful to add to the article. Before, I was a little confused as to why people would be protesting over privately used buses, since they are common in NYC where I live. The explanation - the Google buses operating without having to pay a fee to the city - makes much more sense for the reader. Another interesting note is how the Google buses would have loaded/unloaded anywhere, even in the middle of traffic, and how the commuter shuttles paying a per-stop fee to the city reduced this. epicgenius (talk) 22:42, 20 February 2018 (UTC)


 * I like that Rebecca Solnit explains that these are unmarked buses. Are there any other sources for this, especially objective sources? This ref is fine, but by itself it's a criticism piece that's being used to source a factual statement.
 * 2nd reference describing the buses as "unmarked" appended to the text under Solnit's blockquote

Dueling transportation systems
 * most notably, the shuttles' usage of existing, public bus stops - Neither comma is needed. Also, I think you can drop "existing" unless the public buses also used new bus stops, since it's implied these public stops already exist.
 * Removed extra commas and existing
 * usage that the City of San Francisco was not compensated for - does this refer to private buses using public bus stops, or the congestion?
 * Both, in that the delays and congestion which resulted from the uncoordinated ballet of buses which affected the city buses' timeliness were not alleviated by monetary compensation when the protests first began. The city had to rely only on the monies it collected from people riding their buses, which was 2.00 per person per stop. The Commuter Shuttle Program now allows the city to collect upwards of almost $8.00 per stop from the Google buses, and the buses are coordinated and the streets they use are well defined, so there are never incidents where Google buses are somewhere on a certain street at a certain time when they shouldn't be. And the drivers are bonded and trained similar to city bus drivers.       Spintendo       12:57, 19 February 2018 (UTC)
 * OK, so I guess you can clarify this in a new sentence, similar to this: "The City of San Francisco was not compensated for the Google buses' usage of public bus stops, nor for the congestion that resulted when city buses tried to use these stops at the same time." This isn't the best wording, but that's what I can discern from the article and what you told me. epicgenius (talk) 17:17, 19 February 2018 (UTC)
 * The city was not compensated for usage of their bus stops. Everything that results from that is, I suppose, lesser avenues of non-compensation. Like at a restaurant, the menu will list the prices of certain dishes. But that isn't the actual price of the food described in the menu. The price factors in incidentals such as labor, property taxes paid by the restaurant, health insurance, electricity, etc. That fee pays for all of those things, but to ensure an economy of terms, its labeled simply as the cost of dinner.
 * I see. I guess it is an indirect loss of money, such as when the congestion has a negative economic impact on the city. epicgenius (talk) 22:42, 20 February 2018 (UTC)

More later. epicgenius (talk) 02:16, 19 February 2018 (UTC)

New additions:

Lead
 * groups goals - "group's" should have an apostrophe.
 * Apostrophe's added.
 * bestowed legitimacy upon - this seems subjectively worded, I'd just say "gave legitimacy to".
 * Reworded as suggested.

Background
 * I think you can clarify that the general public couldn't get onto the Google/Facebook/etc buses.
 * I reworded the sentence as The buses are used to ferry only specific employees from designated companies from their homes...

Protests - Direct action Police response More later. epicgenius (talk) 17:17, 19 February 2018 (UTC)
 * December 9, 2013 - Just to be grammatically correct, in American English, if a "Month Day, Year" date appears in the middle of the sentence, there are commas after the year. For example, The protests started on when activists from a group called Heart of the City blocked and entered a double-decker bus used by Google.
 * Changed to 9 December 2013, (with a comma after the year)
 * OK, but now you have inconsistent date formats, like "9 December 2013" and "April 1, 2014". epicgenius (talk) 22:42, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
 * in San Francisco's Mission District, at 24th Street and Valencia Street - I'd switch around "at 24th Street and Valencia Street" and "in San Francisco's Mission District". The intersection is mentioned later in the article, so it should be mentioned first just so readers don't get the impression that it was a generic intersection in the Mission District.
 * Switched as suggested.
 * Ref 20, "Seattle Gets Its Own Tech Bus Protest", refers to Seattle protests. So the protests extended not only to Oakland but also to other cities as far away as Seattle. This should be mentioned in the text.
 * Seattle mentioned. That reference was here before I even started on the article, and I've never cared much for it. I'm not really certain how much of a Seattle protest scene there actually was or whether that was jumping on the bandwagon.
 * In isolated incidents across the bay in Oakland - you can remove "across the bay" since this exact phrase appeared within the same paragraph, making this redundant.
 * accross the bay removed
 * a protester broke a window of one bus and slashed the tire of another. - This sounds like it's the same protester, but these are clearly different protesters. I'd suggest replacing "a protester" with "protesters", even if only one protester did each action, since there were two protesters here.
 * Two unrelated protestors delineated
 * loaudspeaker - is a typo.
 * Loudspeaker corrected
 * The April Fool's blockage seemed to have occurred before a key vote on a plan to charge these tech companies to use the bus stops. I think this can be mentioned, either here or in the "Resolution" section.
 * The $1.00 fee discussed in the reference during the January 2014 meeting was part of the 18-month test program which began in July 2014, six months after the January meeting which saw its initial approval and creation. I've clarified this timing better in the relevant statement.
 * de–escalate - This seems more like a place where a hyphen, rather than an endash, is used - simply because the hyphen is used in the middle of single words, as is the case here.
 * It was using whichever punctuation is used in the wiktionary article, but I've changed it here to a simple hyphen.
 * other, more appropriate means - What are examples of these "more appropriate means"?
 * Anything short of taking them into custody, such as mediated discussion, suggestions, or in the case of the April Fools Day protest, the police simply allowed the organizer to have her say, ensuring opportunities for both press photos to be taken and the collective group "chant and/or rallying cry" to be made towards the end. After that, the two groups (the Google bus riders and the Google bus protestors) went their separate ways. The protestors got the publicity they wanted and their message heard, while the bus riders were delayed for 30 minutes in what was essentially a minor inconvenience. From what I've read, the police culture 30 years ago might not have enabled such a peaceful end to that kind of a disruption to street traffic in SF. They could have pulled batons on people and made things really messy and mean. So when you look at the face of the officer in the video I mentioned, you can't help but laugh at the puzzled yet bemused look on his face as he listens first to the organizer on her loudspeaker while observing dance performers in red and blue costumes doing yoga and upside down leg splits and headstands all right there on Valencia in 8am traffic. All of that and it ended with no one hurt and no one in jail. I believe that this is owed a great deal to the change in police culture over the years along with the police policy changes, which I referenced. I understand that what's needed is to elaborate in the article what "appropriate means" means... perhaps if I changed it to "more non-confrontational means" or perhaps "more proactive means" I dunno. What do you suggest?       Spintendo       08:00, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I think "non-confrontational means" would work just fine - it's all encompassing while not vague. But now that you mention it, an example would work even better. It can be just a phrase, like this: "non-confrontational means, such as communicating with non-compliant subjects". (In this particular example, I used Ref 25 "Use of Force Proposed General Order / Peace Officer Standards and Training (POST)", p. 4.) epicgenius (talk) 22:42, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Suggested changes to this sentence were made.

OK, finishing prose portion:

Resolution - SF Board of Supervisors
 * stepped in - this is problematic when combined with "early on", though the phrase is fine by itself. How about "intervened"?
 * I've changed this sentence to just bypass the problematic phrasing.
 * Tech shuttles - I think you should clarify to "Tech shuttle operators" because the operators were the entities who would've been subject to the $1-per-stop-per-day fee.
 * The fees charged to the shuttle operators were immediately passed on to the tech companies. As they are the ones who hired the shuttles, they are the ones responsible for the payments, if not directly to the city, then to the shuttle companies which fronted the fees for them.
 * Angry residents, citing the $2 fee[a] San Franciscans had to pay to board city buses - The note interrupts the flow of the phrase. You can clarify the $2 fee in the prose itself, rather than in the footnote, because I'm not sure the current fare is relevant at this point in the article (which is explaining the residents' anger at the 2014 fares). So like this, "Angry residents, citing the $2 fee San Franciscans had to pay at the time to board city buses,". But if you're sure you want to keep the current fee, I guess you can move the note to after the comma.
 * I've moved the note to after the period.
 * The SFMTA's full name should be spelled out on the first mention.
 * This is not the first time it is being mentioned. Since that earlier mention takes place in the paragraph marked Transportation needs way at the beginning of the article, and since other editors may overlook the earlier mention or may read the article out of sequence, I've changed this second mention to use the full title as well.
 * Six months later in July 2014, - This is missing a comma. I see three alternatives for this phrase. You can write "Six months later" or "in July 2014" or "Six months later, in July 2014,".
 * Comma added.
 * during its 18 months in effect - This is clunky because the 18 months don't belong to the fee, so to speak. How about: "during the 18 months that it was to be in effect".
 * Changed to the suggested version.

Tech companies response
 * In the header, Companies' should have an apostrophe at the end.
 * Apostrophe added.
 * Alexandra Goldman with UC Berkeley City Planning released details of her research on the "shuttle effect" - At first read, it's confusing as to whether Goldman worked with UC Berkeley, or whether Goldman is from UC Berkeley. From reading the reference, I think it's the latter. You should write "Alexandra Goldman, a UC Berkeley City Planning student, released details of her research on the "shuttle effect"." or something similar.
 * I've removed the Goldman information.
 * stating that rents rise up to 20% around Google bus stops. The average change was 5% - This should be combined into a single sentence and split off from the previous sentence about Goldman. So the new sentences could read like this, "Alexandra Goldman, a UC Berkeley City Planning student, released details of her research on the "shuttle effect". She stated that rents rise up to 20% around Google bus stops, compared to the average citywide change of 5%."
 * This claim was removed.
 * To that effect, the ref in the article, Ref 30 "Curbing the Google bus", doesn't mention the 5% figure. In fact, that reference says that rents near Google bus stops rose up to 20 percent more rapidly (direct quote) than the city's average. By the way, Goldman's research can be linked directly here, and it even has an interesting map on page 17 (but that's just a side note). This same source, on page 15, also says the median rent rose 10.6 percent from February 2012 to February 2013.
 * This claim was removed. Ms. Goldman is a person and not a tech company herself, so whatever input she had to offer would not be relevant here.

Commuter shuttle program
 * You can unlink SFMTA (which is linked three times in this section alone), since you already linked it above. But if you spell it out at the first instance, like I mentioned above, the link would not be needed.
 * Unlinked.
 * from then on - a synonym is "thereafter".
 * Thereafter used.
 * initial end date of March 31, 2017 - the mention of March 31, 2017, is redundant since you already mentioned it.
 * This usage here was not redundant, as the first mention uses the date because the term "extension" implies that there is no expiration, as extensions are used to extend expirations. The next sentence then mentions another extension which leads to confusion: is this the first extension, or another extension? By setting out at the first mention of an extension that it was to expire at a certain point (the March date) the second extension is not as confusing. The date of the second extension's creation simultaneously marks the end of the first extension.

Isolated incidents
 * What's the relevance of this section to the original protests? Was a connection explicitly denied?
 * I don't believe this statement has any relevance to anything in the article — but then again, I am not the editor who added it. I simply moved it from its original placement under the Direct action subheading, to the more-chronologically correct place at the end of the article.
 * several of them had their windows broken while occupied and moving - I think this should occur earlier in the sentence. But since this borders into a run-on, it should be split into two sentences anyway. Like this. "In early 2018, media reported that isolated attacks against the buses had occurred. Several buses had their windows broken while occupied and moving, prompting Apple and Google to reroute their shuttles."
 * "A normal Greyhound bus", which I presume is this, doesn't clarify things for readers, especially those unfamiliar with Greyhound. Greyhound seems to be irrelevant anyway. A better term is "coach buses" since this doesn't bring Greyhound into the article at all.
 * I'm deleting this part as more trouble than it is worth. If the editor who added it would like it to remain, then they can come here and make these changes themself to that part of the article.

I will check the references later. This seems to be an okay article, but is missing a few key details on the motivations for the protests (specifically how the tech companies could use bus stops without paying for them). A few more examples of protests would be nice, but not to the point where there's a day-by-day timeline, which would be excessive. Instead, I think there should be details on the examples of banners that the protesters had, and the protesters' proposed remedies. This is a very interesting topic, and with a few more detail additions, could be really useful for readers. epicgenius (talk) 22:42, 20 February 2018 (UTC)


 * Thank you for your response. In "Tech companies' response", I also have another issue:
 * On 31 March 2014, tech-advocacy group sf.citi, led by Ron Conway, angel investor in Google and other tech companies, released a statement of support for SFMTA's pilot program. has too many commas. Obviously, the phrase led by Ron Conway, angel investor in Google and other tech companies is a descriptor for the phrase tech-advocacy group sf.citi. But that is still a lot of commas. How about this: "On 31 March 2014, tech-advocacy group sf.citi—led by Ron Conway, angel investor in Google and other tech companies—released a statement of support for SFMTA's pilot program." Or you can replace the dashes with parentheses, or just put the "angel investor in Google and other tech companies" phrase in parentheses. epicgenius (talk) 19:12, 22 February 2018 (UTC)
 * The sentence on Mr. Conway has been decommafied.