Talk:Sangheili (Halo)/Archive 1

Elite Culture
Just an observation, in the description of the new coop characters for Halo 3, one of the Elites is described as 'unmarried'. This obviously shows at least some form of religious monogamy within the Elites, if not the entire Covenant. I'll leave it for others to edit however.

-Uwasa

I don't agree that the Elites learned to speak the English tongue, but merely "translated" because the story's viewpoint is not just around the Master Chief anymore--it also revolves around the Arbiter. I suppose that Bungie made most of the Covie talk intelligible simply for clarification purposes, to display the reasoning and culture of the Elites as well as the Covenent in general.

~Jay

Then explain how the Arbiter talks to sargeant Johnsen. -- Psi edit

I believe an Elite said "Projectiles. Very primitive." to Keyes in Halo: The Flood. --OGoncho 19:21, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

Going from the information in the books, at the time of Halo1 the universal translator was unreliable, but picked up a few phrases. By the time of Halo 2 it was significantly improved but still subject to some errors, mostly corrected be cortana. The translator hardware is part of the Spartan/marine comm equipment (and presumably Elite comm gear also). Red Rogue

Also, all UNSC personnel are known to have neural implants. This could explain the Sergeant's ability to understand the Arbiter.

I think that Bungie wanted the elites to speak English, as they were going to play an important role in Halo 2 and so that people like us could understand them. Mccarrot


 * In response to the 'monogamy' bit, if that's worth noticing, one could also point out the humorous tidbit in Halo 2 where, upon staring at another Elite for a long while as the Arbiter, they would say "I think you're cute too" in a hesitant way, or something to that effect. I don't think it's worth putting in the article that they may have a society that accepts such attractions, especially on the basis of only one source of rarely-heard audio material, though it does make for an interesting debate, if nothing else. Made ME laugh, at least. XD —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.101.109.85 (talk) 00:53, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

"Marriage" does not imply monogamy, though it does imply ceramony. However, we really have no idea how the Elites reproduce. Do they have one sex? Two? More? This is not made clear. Since the Arbiter appears naked in Halo 2 and has no visable genitals, we cannot make an assumption that the Elites reproduce in a manner too similar to humans. True, the SpecOps Leader says things like "On the blood of our fathers, on the blood of our sons," but this could just be a convention of the English language, something that does not translate well from their original language. We will have to wait on more concrete material from Bungie before adding such things. Bungie does have a story bible where they keep all this info after all, but it is up to them (in their infinate wisdom) to decide when we are worthy to hear the tru7hs. :) - Fearless Son 23:40, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Name
Should the article be moved to Sangheili? It is the proper name of the race. --OGoncho 05:51, 27 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm going to move it. If anyone disagrees, discuss. --OGoncho 07:18, 10 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I kinda disagree with this. The game refers to them as Elites. They are most commonly referred to as Elites. Most people know of them as Elites. Even the books refer to them as Elites, even when narrated from the perspective of Covenant characters. Mentioning that they call themselves Sangheili is good, but constantly calling them Sangheili seems to be taking things too far and too seriously (kinda like learning to speak Klingon). It's also very jarring for the vast majority of readers. Joylock


 * I agree. Wikipedia standard is to use the most common name. Sangheli can certainly be mentioned in the article, but the article should reside at Covenant Elite, the most common, non-ambiguous name. Since this article has since been moved a couple more times and now carries an unnecessary (Halo) disambiguating suffix, I am going to request a move at WP:RM. — TKD::Talk 02:48, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

I've tweaked the intro to match the new title, using Japanese people as a model. If this is inappropriate for a fictional race, I apologize. --OGoncho 05:23, 13 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Maybe have "Sangheli" direct to this article? ~ Bbglas007
 * Already does. Peptuck 17:33, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
 * copy paste "Sangheli" into wiki and you'll find it doesn't
 * That's because "Sangheli" is mispelled. Its "Sangheili."

A bonus disk, released with the Legendary (and I think Collector's) Edition of Halo 3 has a bestiary listing for the aliens in the Halo series, referencing their taxinomic names- The Sangheili's being Macto Cognatus. Should this be added? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.101.109.85 (talk) 22:48, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Rank section
Heretics aren't part of the Covenant therefore they are not part of the ranking of the Covenant. Im putting in some sub categories. Psi edit 01:37, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

The previous text in this section was full of errors and awkward and incorrect infomation so I purged it and redid the whole section. --Will of the Prophets 03:31, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Requested move

 * Covenant Elite (Halo) → Covenant Elite … Rationale: Covenant Elite is the most common name for this fictional alien race. A series of page moves (Covenant Elite → Sangheli → Elites (Halo) → Covenant Elite (Halo)) has created an unnecessary disambiguating suffix. — TKD::Talk 02:55, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Survey

 * Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one-sentence explanation, then sign your opinion with  ~


 * Support as original requester. — TKD::Talk 02:59, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Support. Olessi 19:47, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Moved. &mdash; Nightst a  llion  (?) 11:28, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Multiplayer differences
Have any of these been proved? The only ones that are obviously true are the size difference and the different head placement (affecting headshots). As far as I know, the rest are just rumors. Rabid Monkey 18:37, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Language Barriers
We know from Fall of Reach that the Covenant had learned english at an alarmingly fast rate. I suppose some of the higher ranking Elites took it upon themselves to learn the language, while the UNSC simply got better translators.

The Elites characterized in the novels would feel english isn't a tongue worthy enough for them to learn or speak aloud; I feel that the Elites in the game and in "Conversations from the universe" actually admired the human spirit and tenacity of war. I would imagine they would work laborously to learn english, human history, the whole nine yards.

I think that this entry for the Sanghelli is as skeletal as it is tedious. It should touch on their insurrection from the Covenant, the possible alliance with the UNSC(or cease-fire) and a rough outline of their role in Halo 2 and possible roles in the upcoming Halo 3.

EDIT: Of course, I don't mean they speak English amongst themselves. It's translated for the viewer's sake. However, it is odd that the Covenant Oath is a poem that when translated into english, also rhymes and has perfect meter.

Cleanup
I don't see the need for a cleanup tag on this page, so i am going to remove it now. If you believe it does require cleanup, please replace the tag and discuss the reason here, thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.40.86.116 (talk • contribs)
 * I just tagged this with cleanup fiction-as-fact. According to Wikipedia's guidelines on writing about fiction, fictional characters and species need to be treated as cultural artifacts, not as if they were real beings. — TKD::Talk 23:50, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Speculation
It seems that alot of the "facts" in this article seem to be mere speculation. For example in the physiology section of the article there is something saying the the arbiter can take a bullet wound to the chest and it will be fully healed in a few minutes. I see that this is assumed because of the health system of halo 2 makes you fully healed on your own after a few seconds but I doubt this is therefore canon. I don't think that the game designers had any intention of suggesting that elites have extreme "wolverine" like healing abilities and that this game feature is just to lighten the total work being done for the gamer. --TostitosAreGross 21:21, 19 July 2006 (UTC)


 * The Arbiter takes a bullet wound directly to the chest when his shields are down during the ending of Quarantine Zone; you can even see him physically clutching the wound. After the encounter with Gravemind and arriving at the beginning of Uprising, he is no longer clutching that wound. This is apparently the bass for the idea of the armor at least having the same regenerative abilities as the MJOLNIR Mark VI.


 * Personally, though, I'm more interested in where these "Guardian" and "Prophet Elites" come from. Normally I'd just delete it, but they may be in the Halo Graphic Novel, so I'd need to see that to confirm otherwise. Peptuck 06:49, 23 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Its been a few days, and there's been no citations of where the Prophet and Guardian Elites came from. Judging by what I've gathered from the HGN reviews and discussions, there's no Elites of that type mentioned in the HGN, either. I'm calling this either fan theory or plain bullshit. Deleted. Peptuck 05:52, 25 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I Second Peptuck's call on the Prophet and Guardian Elites, i can find no offical canon on the matter whatsoever Ronnie  00:45, 26 July 2006 (GMT)


 * In all honesty, the article looks and reads like it was written by an enthusiastic fifteen-year-old fan. A noble endeavor, but it contains phrases like "longer in length". I think it needs to be cleaned up a bit, but I'm far too lazy to do it. Anyone else up for it? Magicflyinlemur 05:55, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Edit it yourself instead of whining about it.Peptuck 14:00, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Is the part about the Elites' gonads being on their chest verifiable or should it be deleted? Patar knight 22:43, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Unsupported speculation. I removed it. Peptuck 05:53, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
 * good job, Peptuck, it seemed odd, but im not a big reader of Halo so i wasnt sure. Patar knight 18:43, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

There needs to be an edit to the main article. Elites breath NITROGEN, which is a gas found on earth, I forget where I heard it exactly, but its from a offical source. Recent idiot
 * Find the source, then. I've never heard of Elites needing to breathe nitrogen in all the official sources I've seen.Peptuck 19:21, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Added small sentence about Elites having three hearts, this is made canon in "Ghost of Onyx."

Pictures
Should there be pictures near the ranks for referance?Argias 19:11, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

I don't particularly think that the Elite warrior culture resembles that of the ancient Japanese. It's much more similar to something like the warrior culture of the Chinese Qin dynasty. Like the ancient Chinese, Elites are promoted based on merit and wear different colors based on rank. Cosmetically, the Elite "honor guard" armor appears very similar to that seen on Tang dynasty statues. Heck, even the name "Sang Hei Li" is evidently similar to mandarin. Just my 2cents.

Coveneant Elite Heads
I notice that the article states that the Elites have Arrow-Shaped heads, though this seems to be based on the shape of their helmets. It's clearly seen in Halo 2 that Arbiter and other Elites have smooth heads. Should this be edited? I only ask because I do not know if there is any literature that contradicts this or if the term "Arrow Shaped" means something else.

(LoboMcThirsty 01:28, 15 September 2007 (UTC))


 * I do not know about the time that you accessed this, but as of my comment here the article specifies that they had arrow-shaped heads in earlier concepts for the characters, which you can clearly see in the screenshot of the earlier version of Halo shown at MacWorld NY 1999. As the game developed, the art was refined and characters underwent cosmetic changes.  In particular, the Elites no longer had arrow-shaped heads, but instead were given arrow-shaped helmets over smooth heads.  - Fearless Son 23:48, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Possible move to Elite (Halo)
At WT:HALO, the possibility of moving this page to Elite (Halo) has been raised. To keep discussion in one place, please contribute to the existing thread there; this notice is added here to notify editors who watch this page but not WT:HALO. — TKD:: Talk  13:58, 26 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Sounds good to me. James086 Talk &#124;  Email 05:31, 28 November 2007 (UTC)


 * ✅ — TKD:: Talk  00:43, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Successful good article nomination
I am glad to report that this article nomination for good article status has been promoted. This is how the article, as of October 21, 2007, compares against the six good article criteria:


 * 1. Well written?: Pass
 * 2. Factually accurate?: Pass
 * 3. Broad in coverage?: Pass
 * 4. Neutral point of view?: Pass
 * 5. Article stability?
 * 6. Images?: Pass

A very thorough article. My only suggestion is to improve your grammar just a little bit. Well done! If you feel that this review is in error, feel free to take it to Good article reassessment. Thank you to all of the editors who worked hard to bring it to this status, and congratulations. — Ejg930 02:46, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

WAIT STOP
I'm not really into Halo but why does the first icture at the Right Hand Side there say "The Flood" up above it in big letters? Is thie a mistake? If not, ah well, thought I'd better check at any rate to be sure. Cause the article doesn't really seem to be about the flood. Sorry if I'm barking up the wrong tree. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.236.211.165 (talk) 09:40, 3 December 2007 (UTC)


 * You need to refresh you PC, it did say "The Flood" about ten hours ago wich was a simple mistake by the user that added the box yesterday, but I fixed it a while back. -  Ca ri bb e a  n ~ H. Q.  09:45, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Oops. :) David Fuchs ( talk  ) 22:46, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Cool :-) 125.236.211.165 (talk) 00:13, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

Elite weaponry
If the text next to the early picture of the elite is referring to it, then it is wrong. It looks as if the early elite is holding a plasma rifle, not an early energy sword...168.170.197.10 (talk) 17:30, 18 January 2008 (UTC)Sage1989
 * It isn't. David Fuchs ( talk  ) 17:38, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
 * The text isn't referring to the picture. In the pic however it is a plasma rifle. 58.161.196.219 (talk) 12:07, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Sangelli redirect
Why doesn't Sangelli redirect here. It is thier real name?75.121.36.237 (talk) 02:31, 28 March 2008 (UTC)Arbiter099


 * Naming conventions, we use the most recognizable name for the articles, Sangheili are always refered to as "Elites" in the games, the novels also use it quite often. -  Ca ri bb e a  n ~ H. Q.  02:35, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
 * By alot you mean... "Fall of Reach", "The Flood" and "First Strike". Yet... "Ghosts of Onyx," "Contact Harvest," "Halo: The Graphic Novel," "Halo: Uprising" (all 4 issues) use Sangheili.OsirisV (talk) 06:12, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
 * "Elite" is the most common and recognized name used for them, in the games, books, various media, and in the general public consciousness. The average reader who looks up Halo will most likely only know them by their most common name, which is "Elite." Peptuck (talk) 08:29, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
 * "Sangelli" does not redirect here but "Sangheili" does. We do not need to account for small differences in spelling in the case of a completely fictional word.  - Fearless Son (talk) 00:12, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Elite Resemblance to the Predator race
I've heard about the connection more than once. Should it be commented on? The similarities are striking. The jaws with 4 fang ridden mandibles, elongated heads, mildly similar armor. Also, the Elite's battle based culture is very similar to the Predator's hunt based culture. Furthermore, the Predator article states that one of the early designs for the Predators involved legs similar to the Elites, but it was abandoned in the movie design because of cost and logistics. I'm hoping others can provide a more substantial source of proof for the connection. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ccsteve1 (talk • contribs) 08:57, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Personally, the Elite remind me of the Protoss of StarCraft fame, specifically the Zealots. They have energy swords, like psi blades, a strong warrior culture, and a healthy respect for worthy enemies.  Their integration into a theocratic governing system also reminds me of the Protoss. ~ 199.242.209.27 (talk) 04:07, 24 October 2008 (UTC)
 * The "proud alien culture" has long been a tenet of SciFi, from the Klingons on, and probably a lot earlier. Unless there's a reliable source about these similarities, we can't mention it or else it would be synthesis. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ( talk  ) 14:02, 24 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually, I think that the Elites are more inspired by the Iridians of Ian M. Banks' Culture series. I recall Bungie citing it as one of their inspirations for the Halo universe (the "Culture orbitals" in particular being inspirations for the Halo rings themselves.)  The Marathon's Story page of Bungie.org has a list of similarities if anyone is interested.  - Fearless Son (talk) 18:27, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

Renaming to Sangheili (Halo)
The official name for the Elites is Sangheili as shown in Halo: Ghost of Onyx and Halo: The Cole Protocol. Just a minor update.- 5 ub 7 ank ( 7alk ) 11:16, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Wait.. never mind. Saw the above section (Sangelli Redirect). Ignore this.- 5 ub 7 ank ( 7alk ) 11:24, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Updated Pictures
Should the picture of the Elite at the beginning of the article be updated to the model that is used in the new game (Halo: Reach)? --PatSon15 (talk) 19:28, 13 August 2010 (UTC)