Talk:Sangreal Sodality

Eagle - your being extremely inappropriate. The Sangreal sodality as the many many references to it show is a significant occult organization. Frankly this is not a question to anyone who knows anything about the occult movements and organizations

I have now added many references-- more than you will find for other contemporary occult groups which generally include ONLY their own leaders books. We now have an array of books that while not NY Times best sellers are significant within their own context--occult, mystery and fraternal organizations

Since Wikipedia includes many occult organizations of FAR less significance it is pretty clear that either you really do not know about this topic..or you have some personal issue with us causing you to raise this once again

The fact is even whoever set up your occult organization page listed the sodality.William Gray's listing is also on Wikipedia

Let's stop this and get to the work of making the page even better. I could also use some help understanding the formatting issues (Like how I get it to list and link references etc)

Sangrealsodality Dr Renee Levant Sangrealsodality

Sangreal Sodality
I have also contributed to this article, and it looks pretty straightforward and objective to me. The idea is to write about the Sodality's beliefs and practices, and that's what this article does. William Gray was a prolific writer whose books have been in publication for many years; he was in touch with and worked with other occult teachers who are listed in Wikipedia, often taking a different position from them on important issues; and chapters of the Sodality have been in existence in various locations around the world for decades. Gray was a serious, dedicated, articulate, influential occult thinker and writer, and it makes sense that there should be an article about his Sodality. I'm finding it difficult to understand what Wikipedia's complaint about this article could be.

Drsedgwick 01:37, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Yes Drsedwick is correct. If you have an issue then don't just tag..talk about it. That is one of the principles here I thought;-)

The fact is this is an article about a fraternal Magical organization. The information comes from sources which include its founder, the current leader (we don't call it that but that is what Warden means here for all practical purposes) but also primary sources of information on occult organizations.

There is nothing stated that is not substantiated in the references given. If you think otherwise provide the specifics. Otherwise I really do have to question YOUR INTEREST in this article. What IS YOUR ISSUES BE SPECIFIC and I will gladly clean it up and ask others to help

````Renee

Notability
This article does not seem to establish the notability of Sangreal Sodality. If significant independant sources can not be added to establish notability, I would suggest merging this article with the William G. Gray article.

Another problem is that the tone of the article is entirely too promotional for a Wikipedia article. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, and not a free web host WP:NOTE, WP:NPOV, WP:CONFLICT.

If the article is not improved it could be nominated for deletion: Deletion policy. Malcolm Schosha (talk) 14:11, 2 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Proposed deletion. The subject matter seems not to be notable. Much of the article comes close to, or actually is, blatant advertising intended to attract new members to the group. There is not even a hint at an effort to achieve neutrality. Malcolm Schosha (talk) 11:39, 7 May 2008 (UTC)


 * the only third party source we seem to have is John Michael Greer, whose Encyclopedia does have a "Sangreal Sodality" lemma, but who is himself of rather dubious notability. dab (𒁳) 10:48, 8 May 2008 (UTC)


 * That Encyclopedia is published by Llewellyn Publications [], which is not famous for quality or scholarship (mostly, it publishes junk). Malcolm Schosha (talk) 11:31, 8 May 2008 (UTC)


 * A search of the The New Encyclopedia of the Occult in Amazon.com shows two mentions of Sangreal Sodality. Both of them discuss the series of four books with that title by William Gray.  The first, p.209, has no mention of the group. In the second, p.418,there are only two sentences, at the very end of that entry, that mention the Sangreal Sodality group, and the first of the two sentences calls Gray's effort to found the groups only a "moderate success". It seems clear that The New Encyclopedia of the Occult says nothing that establishes the notability of the Sangreal Sodality group, which is the subject of this article. Malcolm Schosha (talk) 17:19, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Please note WP:AFD on this article
YOu might want to take discussion of notability there. Mangoe (talk) 17:26, 8 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Certainly, I will be voting on the AfD and will add some comments to support that. Malcolm Schosha (talk) 17:46, 8 May 2008 (UTC)