Talk:Sanki King

Sanki King is Wikipedia Editor!
I found that User:Abdullah Ahmed Khan aka Sanki King is himself Wikipedia editor. Ask him if you have any problems. :) Nizil (talk) 18:43, 29 January 2016 (UTC)


 * Looks like he's inactive here at the moment anyway. And he hasn't edited the article about himself, so no conflict of interest either. Sionk (talk) 19:03, 29 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Though the original author of this article has concentrated all their efforts on this one subject and nothing else. It does make you wonder! Sionk (talk) 19:30, 29 January 2016 (UTC)


 * Replying to your message on your talk page and this message together.
 * I don't know what you mean by style of writing. Almost everything in the article is taken from the third party sources which are news articles published on Sanki King, I did not write much from my own, what you read is what is mentioned in the articles. But you look more experienced than me so I would like you to fix this article and don't just leave banners or citations needed tags on the article. I just want to ask how is the source #7 "House of Pakistan" on the article is unreliable? The website posts news from all over Pakistan and is not a wordpress blog or anything its a legit website. So I want to know can a website not be used as a third-party source? I mean all the sources do they must be from a news publication or something that is coming from a news agency etc? From my experience, I don't think that's the case and real .com websites Can Be used as third party sources, but please shed some light on this.


 * Also the source #18 "Can't touch this" that you have also marked as "not given in citation", I used that source because the paragraph that it is used on starts with this "King is one of the early leaders of b-boying and parkour in Pakistan", and in that source if you read, it is clearly mentioned "The boys began with Pakor (the writer misspelled Parkour) – a skill that involved reaching from point A to point B in the shortest, quickest way possible. Twenty-one-year-old Abdullah Ahmed Khan, aka Sanki, was one of the pioneers." So I used this source in that context. I hope you get my point.


 * As far as Sanki King being an editor himself is concerned, that account does not look like a Secret Wikipedia Account, anyone can be a Wikipedia editor. But Sanki did not create this article and you don't see him marketing himself anywhere on his page or this article that I created. So let's stick to the point here and let's not throw sarcasm at each other like "Ask him if you have any problems :)", this does not improve anything. Someone just posted another banner as well that the article needs copyediting, like I said, I wrote the article in the light of the sources to the best of my abilities. But if you think it needs improvement, please do it and I might learn some things from those changes. I would like to ask to help improve the article if possible. Thank you very much. SameStruggle (talk) 03:02, 30 January 2016 (UTC)


 * I have struggled with expanding this article, most of the edits I do on Wikipedia are adding citations to articles which are up for deletion due to lack of sources or expanding parts of an article . So if you can expand this article, and Im sure you can since creating 200 articles is a big thing, please do so. And also if you can provide me with (a) link(s) that can help me and guide me regarding expanding Wikipedia articles and make them legit, that'll be awesome. For now I'm going through the articles that you have created to see how you write. Peace SameStruggle (talk) 03:17, 30 January 2016 (UTC)


 * Also I dont understand one thing, we've got 18 sources on this acrticle, 3 out of 18 SEEM unreliable and you have posted a banner saying Needs Additional Citations for verification, I mean what about all the other national and international sources? Gulf News, The News International, Express Tribune, DAWN?? I have seen articles with 5-6 sources with no banners on them. The whole world media doesn't have to verify an article does it? Please tell me what I am missing here. Thank you. SameStruggle (talk) 04:04, 30 January 2016 (UTC)

Request Edit
Sources to be reviewed and added to the article;

I gave two TEDx Talks, one in 2016 and the other in 2017:
 * https://www.ted.com/tedx/events/20375. Link to the talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfYJmd0ub_Y&t=3s
 * https://www.ted.com/tedx/events/21774

Other sources:
 * https://www.sanatinitiative.com/sankiking
 * https://www.hipinpakistan.com/news/1149860
 * http://digitalcalligraffiti.org/artist/sanki-king/
 * https://www.redbull.com/mea-en/unraveling-karachis-graffiti-scene
 * http://www.imagomundiart.com/artworks/abdullah-ahmed-khan-atomic-dust
 * http://www.studentshow.com/gallery/60017075/Writings-On-The-Wall-(SANKI)

I was a major part of Karachi Biennale 2017 (KB17):
 * https://images.dawn.com/news/1178700
 * http://www.kbcuratorial.com/artists/sanki-king
 * https://universes.art/en/karachi-biennale/2017/photo-tour/sanki-king/
 * https://www.youlinmagazine.com/story/karachi-biennale-reel-on-hai/Nzcx
 * http://www.magtheweekly.com/detail/1164-the-sanki-king-of-karachis-graffiti-art

Pehle Aap - collaborative project/exhibition in Mumbai, later exhibited at The Urdu Exhibit:
 * https://www.dawn.com/news/1367862
 * https://www.mid-day.com/articles/why-is-the-art-of-urdu-calligraphy-dying/18579150
 * https://www.thestatesman.com/books-education/drawing-their-communities-together-1502534927.html
 * https://www.firstpost.com/living/urdu-gets-a-shot-in-the-arm-with-design-fabrics-latest-project-the-urdu-exhibit-4073233.html

SameStruggle (talk) 08:44, 24 January 2019 (UTC)

Reply 22-JAN-2019
 Example edit request:  Please change: to read as: using as a reference: When ready to proceed, please alter the template's answer parameter to read from yes to no. Regards,  Spintendo   16:25, 22 January 2019 (UTC)
 * It is not known what changes are requested to be made. Please state your desired changes in the form of "Change x to y using z".
 * The Sun's diameter is 25 miles.  
 * The Sun's diameter is 864,337.3 miles.  


 * All of the above sources were never a part of the article and have been posted here not only to be added to the article as references but so that their content can be used to expand the article as well. Since I myself am Sanki King, due to COI I cannot suggest how and which sources should be used to expand the article. That's why I shared those sources so that editors can go through the sources, confirm their authenticity, and then make them a part of the article. SameStruggle (talk) 08:44, 24 January 2019 (UTC)
 * "Sources" are meant to confirm statements and claims made by an article. There is a section of external links, but I don't believe that's what you're asking for here, which is to add the listings of these links in the body of the article. But Wikipedia is not meant to be a collection of links. If there is no additional context to be placed with these URL's in the form of a narrative prose discussing them and their significance, then they need not be added to the article. Regards,  Spintendo   16:03, 24 January 2019 (UTC)
 * There are two banners on top of the article. First one says "This biography of a living person needs additional citations for verification. Please help by adding reliable sources." And the second one says that because of COI the article needs cleanup for a neutral point of view. The banners were added by the user when he asked me who I was. I disclosed my identity to him on my user talk page and then over here as well and added this Request Edit template with the sources ONLY because of the banners added by Yunshui. I even tagged him and another editor GSS to bring their attention to the sources; there was no response. I asked Yunshui to go through the article end to end to see that it is already full of reliable sources and that the entire article is neutral. Did not receive a response and then you showed up. Now you are telling me that the sources cannot be added as they might be out of context even though I clearly stated that the sources can help expand the article further.
 * To me, the COI banner seems legit and after my disclosure I told Yunshui that I will not be directly editing the article again (as read in Wiki guidelines) but the additional citations banner seems like a bad call to me. The right thing for him would have been to see if the article really needed cleanup and additional citations and then proceed accordingly by doing what's necessary and remove the banners. I didn't see a single "citation needed" anywhere on the article which means that he did not even read the article entirely and placed the banner just like that. I am guessing he did it because it seemed obvious to him that the article MUST have issues just because there is a COI. So either you need to bring an editor to expand the article and use the sources mentioned above, add more citations, do the cleanup and remove the banners. Or someone who can read the article in its entirety, confirm my claims that the article is already neutral and well-cited and remove the banners. Best, SameStruggle (talk) 18:33, 24 January 2019 (UTC)

Help required for clean-up & removal of banners
Would really appreciate if any of you can help to improve/expand this article. I myself am Sanki King and I was editing this article with a direct COI. I have already discussed the matter in January and no bans were imposed on me, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:SameStruggle, and I agreed to never edit this article again. The conversation on my talk page and the one on the article's talk page took place in January and no one has come forward to improve the article ever since. I can say with complete confidence that everything in the article is well sourced and unbiased and even the new links that I have shared above this section are all strong third party links. You can go through the article, all the references over there, the new ones over here and be the judge. I think except the very first link of Sanat Initiative, all links are working. Anyway, looking forward to a positive response. SameStruggle (talk) 01:43, 11 June 2019 (UTC)
 * , I'm happy to help. COI things can be tricky. ―Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 01:45, 11 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Please post specific things you want edited here and ping me. ―Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 05:54, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Can you please elaborate? Are you asking which specific links do I want in the article? SameStruggle (talk) 09:07, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
 * , Yeah, sorry if I was confusing. If you post here what you need changed, then I can review it and see if I think that it can be changed the way you propose. So you could say, "This says I was born in Rome but I was actually born in Modena, here's a source..." ―Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 19:46, 17 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Actually, brother, the issue is not that I want something changed; I want new third party sources to be added to the article so that it can be made stronger and expanded using the new sources. For example, I gave a TEDx talk in 2016; I was a major part of the first Karachi Biennale in 2017; my work is a part of a major international art publication; major interviews; links of all of this can be found above. So, if you look at the sources above, none of them are or have ever been used in the article before. And like I have said before many times, even though there is a COI, you can go through the entire article and would not find any biased or advertisement-like statements. Proof of that can be seen in the recent edit of Sionk where he deleted the BLP sources template and wrote this as the edit summary "no apparent unsourced parts of this article, no reason indicated for adding refimprove template, so I've removed it (again))". Hope I have been clear enough. Thank you. SameStruggle (talk) 14:23, 8 July 2019 (UTC)

Please help with the article and have the COI banner removed; it's been a year since I first requested assistance from you. I have continuously openly asked for an editor to go through the article and confirm its neutrality but I have received no response in 1 year. I am still confident that the COI banner based on the lack of neutrality is not justified because all the material for the article has been taken over the years straight from the sources by other editors and majorly myself and not a word on the article has been used from the outside to falsify any facts or use the article as a marketing tool. All of this can be confirmed by reading the article in its entirety and checking the citations. I wait for someone's response, thank you very much. SameStruggle (talk) 04:59, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
 * New sources in the past 1 year:
 * https://www.edition.pk/news/1015238
 * https://karachiartdirectory.com/art-professionals/sanki-king/
 * https://www.thenews.com.pk/latest/571235-sanki-king-brings-burst-of-energy-in-graffiti
 * https://www.biztoday.news/2020/02/20/ladiesfund-to-celebrate-launch-of-the-buraq-center-on-february-26/
 * SameStruggle (talk) 05:07, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
 * , It's hard, since you've made 300 edits to this article, so I can't exactly untangle what you've added to what others have. Let me take a look at the tone and see if it seems self-promotional or has poor sourcing. ―Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 05:08, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Okay, I took out some promotional and unsourced language. If you have further edits that you want to suggest should be made, let me know. This article is far from perfect but not obviously inappropriate to me. ―Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 05:36, 14 June 2020 (UTC)


 * Thanks for considering. Though the pioneer of graffiti etc part is not actually something added by me and not for promotion at all, it is mentioned in several news publications over the years which are a part of this article and I can point all of them out to you if you want confirmation. It is not something self-proclaimed and then added to the article. Thanks for the removal of COI I am grateful. Cheers. Also, just above your message you will see 4 new authentic 3rd party sources/links which should be added to the article. SameStruggle (talk) 06:40, 14 June 2020 (UTC)


 * More authentic sources that I shared last year but they still have not been added to the article:
 * http://digitalcalligraffiti.org/artist/sanki-king/
 * https://www.redbull.com/mea-en/unraveling-karachis-graffiti-scene
 * http://www.imagomundiart.com/artworks/abdullah-ahmed-khan-atomic-dust
 * http://www.studentshow.com/gallery/60017075/Writings-On-The-Wall-(SANKI)
 * https://images.dawn.com/news/1178700✅
 * http://www.kbcuratorial.com/artists/sanki-king✅
 * https://universes.art/en/karachi-biennale/2017/photo-tour/sanki-king/
 * https://www.youlinmagazine.com/story/karachi-biennale-reel-on-hai/Nzcx✅
 * http://www.magtheweekly.com/detail/1164-the-sanki-king-of-karachis-graffiti-art✅
 * https://www.dawn.com/news/1367862✅
 * https://www.mid-day.com/articles/why-is-the-art-of-urdu-calligraphy-dying/18579150✅
 * https://www.thestatesman.com/books-education/drawing-their-communities-together-1502534927.html✅
 * https://www.firstpost.com/living/urdu-gets-a-shot-in-the-arm-with-design-fabrics-latest-project-the-urdu-exhibit-4073233.html✅
 * SameStruggle (talk) 06:49, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
 * @Koavf, thank you for . :) GSS &#x202F;&#128172; 07:45, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
 * , thank you for your cooperation. Some of above are not considered as reliable sources. So they might not be added to the article. The current state of article is good enough I believe. I will go through them and will add helpful information. Regards, -Nizil (talk) 12:15, 15 June 2020 (UTC)
 * I have not used some references above because there is no need of too many references to cite same thing. -Nizil (talk) 05:45, 16 June 2020 (UTC)

Request to add sources, cleanup etc
In February 2021, I had an exhibition at the Louvre Abu Dhabi Museum, sharing the links below from the Louvre's website and the media coverage. I want this information and the links added to the article. Thank you.

1. https://www.louvreabudhabi.ae/en/explore2/exhibitions/abstraction-and-calligraphy
 * Louvre

2. https://www.louvreabudhabi.ae/en/explore2/exhibitions/abstraction-and-calligraphy/contemporary-art

3. https://www.louvreabudhabi.ae/en/Whats-Online/poetry/poetry-recitals/section-1

https://www.amazon.com/Abstraction-Calligraphy-English-Universal-Language/dp/1785513524#detailBullets_feature_div
 * Exhibition Catalog

1. https://www.mediaoffice.abudhabi/en/arts-culture/lad-first-2021-exhibition-features-abstract-masterpieces/
 * Press

2. https://gulfnews.com/uae/government/sheikh-mohammed-seeks-emirati-for-youth-minister-role-on-x-platform-1.98313408

3. https://www.gulftoday.ae/culture/2021/02/07/east-is-east-and-west-is-west-and-here-is-where-they-meet

4. https://wam.ae/fr/details/1395302910756

5. https://www.thenationalnews.com/arts-culture/art/louvre-abu-dhabi-s-first-exhibition-of-the-year-to-feature-more-than-80-abstract-artworks-1.1158990

6. https://www.thenationalnews.com/arts-culture/art/hieroglyphs-to-islamic-calligraphy-louvre-abu-dhabi-exhibition-explores-how-western-artists-looked-east-to-create-abstract-art-1.1167116

7. https://www.thenationalnews.com/arts-culture/art/hieroglyphs-to-islamic-calligraphy-louvre-abu-dhabi-exhibition-explores-how-western-artists-looked-east-to-create-abstract-art-1.1167116

https://karachiartdirectory.com/art-professionals/sanki-king/
 * Karachi Art Directory

The website has been changed from https://sankikingofficial.com (I have abandoned this domain), to https://sankiking.com, so that needs to be updated too.

Also, there are 2 new banners on the article, highlighting issues that have been resolved years ago, kindly remove them.

Regards SameStruggle (talk) 12:34, 30 September 2023 (UTC)


 * I'm not very knowledgeable on this topic. Is there a particular reason I've been pinged? ―Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 12:36, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
 * You previously extensively edited and cleaned up this article, that's why I pinged. It's just a matter of adding new sources and text, which I can't do myself. SameStruggle (talk) 12:42, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

I've updated the webpage link and added a line about the participation in the Louvre Abu Dhabi group exhibition. The work was one of more than 80 on display and Sanki King has only the briefest mention in most of the sources. But I've added The National news article which at least mentione=s the name Sanki King twice. Sionk (talk) 13:09, 30 September 2023 (UTC)


 * I was one of the headliner artists of the show, as seen in all the links especially the press release of the show by the Abu Dhabi Media Office, the 1st Press link. If you open the 2nd Louvre Link which says “contemporary art”, I am specially mentioned as one of the 3 featured artists of the show. SameStruggle (talk) 13:54, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Webpage has been updated in the External Links section but not in the info box. And none of the 3 direct links from the Louvre Abu Dhabi’s website are added to the article, which are the most authentic sources of the exhibition, may I ask why?
 * Also, the 2 COI banners are incorrect and should be removed, both of those matters were resolved more than 2 years ago. SameStruggle (talk) 13:58, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your editing attempts so far but I’ll search and ping editors who are art experts and share the exhibition history with them so they can help expand the article properly. The “gallery art” heading for the section where the museum show is mentioned is incorrect; Louvre Abu Dhabi is a contemporary art museum not a gallery. There needs to be a primary Exhibitions section with “gallery shows” and “museum shows” sub-sections with the lists of shows. SameStruggle (talk) 16:03, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

Expansion
Hi, found you on the edit history of Damien Hirst. I see you have created and edited articles of major artists. I looked for newer 3rdparty resources but seems like the latest are the ones above this message posted by the artist himself. The whole article is a mess, especially the lead section. I am new to Wiki and after seeing the lead section guidelines here, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Lead_section#Length, I realized my Eng is not that good haha. I would expand the article but I believe you will do a much much better job, sir. Especially the Louvre museum part, I couldn't figure out how to highlight the part and make it "museum grade" which looks like the biggest achievement of this artist's career so far. Maxdorx (talk) 12:06, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

Maxdorx, indeed, the lead should contain no references at all, like in scholarly essays or reports, it is an introduction to what is already referenced in the body of the article. So mess, yes, you are indeed correct there. And thank you for the guide on writing leads. I have written many hundreds before and never once read that, it would have been useful!! I think my method sort of follows that anyway. When I get a spare hour or 2, I will look to edit Damien Hirst's article, he is certainly a big name in the art world. I shall put that on the radar.James Kevin McMahon (talk) 17:37, 16 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Thank you for your prompt response, I admit it is my fault for not being clear enough. I was looking for senior art editors by going through the edit history of articles of notable artists, to help me edit this article Sanki King; that why I tagged you here. I was not calling Hirst's article a mess, but this one. I am an art student in Pakistan and have just started editing articles of notable Pakistani artists that my teachers have mentioned in class but I only know enough to do minor cleanups and adding citations, don't know enough to create a new article or expand an article like you do. Will appreciate your help in expanding Sanki King as I have found this to be the most messy article of a notable Pakistani artist, who is the 1st Pakistani artist in history to exhibit at Louvre abu dhabi, as stated here in the biography.
 * In this group exhibition Sanki's work was exhibited with Henri Matisse, Paul Klee, Joan Miró, Lee Ufan, André Masson, Dia Azzawi and Jackson Pollock, so it is sad and shocking to see this monumental achievement missing from the artist's article that is in need of desperate help from experts. I have also noted that most articles of notable Pakistani artists are C-class and of low importance, which means no one really pays attention to them. We need senior writers like you in Pakistan to pay attention to our own artists. Best wishes. Maxdorx (talk) 03:07, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

Any article tagged recently, it is best to wait 6 months or a year, whoever put the tag will be monitoring the article. Practise on other articles now, do anther 50 or so, until you are an expert, then come back to this one. Remember, there is no need for references in the lead, it only refelects what is already referenced in the article.James Kevin McMahon (talk) 07:38, 17 April 2024 (UTC)


 * It has already been 8 months since this article was tagged. Will you be contributing to this article? Thanks for your advice about the lead and references, will keep that in mind. Cheers Maxdorx (talk) 09:55, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
 * I do this as a hobby, I never work on articles that have been recently tagged. I always wait until the tag is at least a year old. By then the tagger is usually less interested in any changes.James Kevin McMahon (talk) 10:02, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Ok, thank you. Looking forward to the time when you will start contributing. Until then, I will cleanup and expand this myself while also searching for other expert editors like you. This article is wrongfully tagged though, the issues stated in the tags were resolved years ago when it was previously tagged and later the tags were removed by consensus of senior editors, I read all of this in the Talk history pages of this article and the user page of the creator of this article. Will go through the articles you have created and edited to take inspiration to expand this article properly. Best wishes. Maxdorx (talk) 10:39, 17 April 2024 (UTC)