Talk:Sanpaku

Untitled
I too came here wondering about the subject and just added some extra detail on this topic. It's far easier for people to destroy rather than create content. Hope you feel proud of your contributions to this knowledge resource assholes. Genjix (talk) 02:48, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

why does this have to be deleted? why can't it be a wictionary entry? it is accurate to the best of my knowledge, and referenced. why is everyone so militant about deleting topics that aren't instantly 5 pages in length?Lesotho 15:38, 24 January 2007 (UTC)


 * This is Wikipedia, not Wiktionary. You may add it to Wiktionary if you wish. Jobjörn  (Talk ° contribs) 16:17, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

OK, fair enough. What is the threshold for article status or stub status? Why cannot a self-contained, referenced, reasonable entry exist independently? I still don't understand the motivation for deletionLesotho


 * Because Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not an indiscriminate collection of information. Jobjörn  (Talk ° contribs) 20:04, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Honestly, I know you're trying to be witty, but you just undermined your own argument. The main criterion for status on wikipedia (aside from the other 5 pillars, to which this article conforms), appears to be notability.

Quoting Wikipedia:Notability:

"One notability criterion shared by nearly all of the subject-specific notability guidelines, as well as Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not1, is the criterion that a topic is notable if it has been the subject of multiple, non-trivial, reliable published works, whose sources are independent of the subject itself."

this article already references one external source, and without too much difficulty, one can transparently and decisively establish the notability of this topic.

there is already one book referenced in the original article. http://www.amazon.com/You-Are-Sanpaku-George-Oshawa/dp/0821601644

here is another book not listed in the original article: http://www.amazon.com/You-Are-All-Sanpaku-Kensington/dp/0806507284

and a notable international film: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0260160/

for heaven's sake, it has even been cited in a medical journal: http://caonline.amcancersoc.org/cgi/reprint/22/6/372.pdf

honestly, i don't care about this topic, but i think you are being a militant expurgator...there are no specific quantitative guidelines in Wikipedia:Notability, so how many books, films, and journals would it take to satisfy your personal notability criterion?

That was a very perfunctory search which turned up all of the references I have cited above. If you want, I can go into Medline tomorrow and really download a lot of references in medical journals.

I turned to wikipedia for information because I came across the term in a medical context. I am Very Glad that this article existed. I hope that it continues to exist.

What is the issue here? I'm honestly confused...Lesotho 20:16, 25 January 2007 (UTC)


 * No, really. WP:N states that a topic should be the subject of multiple, non-trivial, third party, published sources. The medical journal doesn't speak of "sanpaku" - it speaks of the book "You are all Sanpaku". Which, by the way, IS included in the article. The two books you refer to are the very same books. And, finally, even if you could consider a film a reliable source, the film you refer to is NOT notable: 38 imdb votes tells me I don't even have to google for it. I strongly doubt there are any actually credible references for this - but if you can put some up, then sure. Jobjörn  (Talk ° contribs) 20:30, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Hi there,

Unfortunately, the strictures of my job prevent me from being an eminent doyen of wikipedia as you clearly are. Therefore, I will not enter into a "debate of the deaf" with you. I would like to point out that, according to Wikipedia, notability is not subjective.

Here is a list of 9 published books outside of the original source that cite this term. If this does not meet your criteria, then I would point you toward the Wikipedia:Ownership of Articles page.

http://books.google.com/books?lr=&q=sanpaku&btnG=Search+Books

Please note that one of the cited sources are Congressional transcripts. These are clearly independent and non-trivial sources.

I await your enthusiastic response.


 * I'm still not entirely convinced, although you make a good case. I still believe it would do better as a wiktionary entry... but I will not push the case any further. (Not even to AfD.) I'll just leave it here and hope someone else will come and deal with it. ;)


 * Even if this is real, and is notable (though I doubt it), the article appears to be original research at best. I propose an AfD. DWaterson 22:31, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Hello there,

I'm not certain what you mean by "real" in this context. Moreover, your personal "doubts" are not material reasons for suggesting AfD. Please provide some suitable objection outside of your own, subjective viewpoints. I have certainly provided objective references. Please backup your viewpoint adequately, or remove the AfD. If you do not, I will.Lesotho 01:16, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Just a wandering passer-by here, but I wanted to mention that while the term "sanpaku" may not appear in any scientific or medical source, terms such as "scleral show" and "upper/lower lid retraction" describing a similar appearance definitely make an appearance in the literature. Of course, that is an entirely separate matter from any cultural or pseudo-scientific connotations the term "sanpaku" may have. --Pxc131 (talk) 21:33, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

Neutrality?
This article is extremely biased against any validity of the Sanpaku condition. I thought Wikipedia entries are always supposed to uphold complete neutrality.. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:CF97:34E0:2C76:8E1F:1C86:BE4D (talk) 21:07, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

Robert Pattinson
Errr... wiki noob here... This page says Robert Pattinson has these sorts of eyes. Well... he only does in photos when his head is tilted downwards and he's looking up, just like anyone else. So... delete him from the list? 14.201.208.202 (talk) 01:51, 28 November 2013 (UTC)noob.
 * There is a source to back the claim. Then again, it is a TV show apparently, so it might not be instantly verifiable. Is there any evidence you have to support your claim, from "reliable sources"? I'm not against removing him from the list necessarily, but it all depends on what other sources say. Thanks -- Jprg1966  (talk)  01:55, 28 November 2013 (UTC)

Hmmm I see. I searched images of him and it's plain as day that there's no sanpaku. However, I can only find forums where people support this conclusion: no reputable articles. Many articles just list him as having sanpuaku... they may have even sourced this from Wikipedia. Maybe we could put some kind of annotation that there's a cycle of misinformation and that it is difficult to prove this... or whatever? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 14.201.208.202 (talk) 02:41, 30 November 2013 (UTC)

Bob Dylan
Someone familiar with Wikipedia may wish to add Bob Dylan?

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=730423713687255

The grounds for him may be various things, but his self-proclaimed use of heroin might be one factor?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_9492000/9492886.stm

EDLIS Café 11:24, 11 May 2014 (UTC)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by EdRicardo (talk • contribs)

Untitled
Sclera under the eye (scleral show) can be caused by maxillary hypoplasia or hyperthyroidism among other conditions.... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.240.162.134 (talk) 02:32, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

Salvador Dali?
He didn't actually have it, he just opened his eyes wide. It was just his image, but in reality, he kept his eyes normally. You can check the numerous photos with his serious face. I think it should be removed, or at least, a note added that explains this.

Fawkey (talk) 09:41, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

I don't get it (Kennedy)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5e/John_F._Kennedy%2C_White_House_photo_portrait%2C_looking_up.jpg/376px-John_F._Kennedy%2C_White_House_photo_portrait%2C_looking_up.jpg The caption says: "U.S. President John F. Kennedy was predicted to "experience great danger because of his sanpaku condition". In both eyes, the sclera is visible at the bottom." ????? am I looking at the same picture as whoever wrote this ??????? the whites AREN'T visible under the iris in this image. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:C7D:4AFF:1000:77:ACFD:E0A5:F21D (talk) 12:52, 11 July 2017 (UTC)


 * I agree, the whites are not visible below the iris. Need a better photo. Jusdafax (talk) 09:03, 14 November 2018 (UTC)


 * Totally agree. Ridiculous claim. Fixed the caption accordingly. What you actually see is a bit of the the top surface of the lower lid that is reflecting light coming from above so that is seems a bit brighter than the continuation of said surface towards the sides. Frankly it looks to me as if this particular detail could well have been photoshopped in. --BjKa (talk) 12:57, 16 December 2019 (UTC)

Unreliable sources
The history section in this article seems primarily written against h2g2 wiki, which seems like a very unreliable source to me. It's a wiki, a tertiary source, and has no citations. In addition, it makes some fairly dubious claims referencing "Yin Sanpaku" and "Yang Sanpaku", terms which combine Japanese and Chinese words together seemingly arbitrarily. Sanpaku is not listed as a loanword in my Chinese-English dictionary and there seems to be no related words defined.

I'm left from this article very confused about what this phenomenon actually is and about the origin of the term. The picture doesn't help.

It seems like all of the web-based sources are unreliable, and all of the physical book sources are ones I can't verify easily. Surely there are better online sources available?

Tiffany352 (talk) 16:42, 28 February 2019 (UTC)
 * The article is about a New York version of Japanese folklore, following Tom Wolfe, George Ohsawa, and William Dufty who perpetuated the notion. — Rgdboer (talk) 03:11, 1 March 2019 (UTC)


 * "For thousands of years, people of the Far East [but not their physicians] have been looking into each other's eyes for signs of this dreaded condition."

New York version of Japanese folklore; Yes. If only we could find a reliable source who says words to this effect, the article would become much clearer. There is only one source for Sanpaku: the Dufty-Ohsawa book, which also claims: "Children most susceptible to polio have triangular or reverse triangular faces." [pp. 136-137] "Societies of the Far East are feminist despite all outward appearances to the contrary." [page 124] The Dufty-Ohsawa book does not cite a single traditional Chinese or Japanese medical source. It is not "Japanese/Chinese traditional medicine," perhaps not even "Japanese folklore." Ohsawa/Sakurazawa comes from Kyoto, which has a sophisticated way of treating the rest of Japan with contempt, and he teams up with New York writers, who have sophisticated ways of treating the rest of America with contempt. This is invented tradition. What about a See also section with links to Physiognomy, Cesare Lombroso, Invented tradition? The idea that sanpaku predicts criminal behavior is intended: "He had committed sins against the order of the universe" (he has the karma of a criminal). In the 1960s, if someone endlessly extemporized on Yin and Yang, they were considered to understand the essence of traditional Chinese/Japanese medicine. Neither author claims any expertise in traditional; everything is either anecdotal or dogmatic claims about Yin and Yang. Ohsawa smoked cigarettes, and claimed that when he was inhaling, the smoke was Yin, when exhaling, it was Yang. Vagabond nanoda (talk) 09:19, 12 September 2021 (UTC)