Talk:Santa Fe, New Mexico/Archive 1

St. Faith
Question regarding the derivation of the name: Faith is both a concept and a woman's name. In fact there was a St. Faith, or, actually, since she was French, Ste. Foy. Her shrine is in southern France, on the prilgrimage route to Santiago de Compostella. See Conques. So: is the city dedicated to the saint, or to the concept? -- Loren —Preceding undated comment added 05:15, 31 May 2003‎


 * The full name is "La Villa Real de la Santa Fe de San Francisco de Asis", so it's about Faith, in general, and the faith of St. Francis in particular, and not about Ste. Foy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by GTBacchus (talk • contribs) 09:01, 11 December 2004 (UTC)


 * The city is dedicated to St. Francis of Asisi. That's why his name is included in the full name of the city.  --  ST —Preceding undated comment added 05:25, 5 November 2006‎

New Mexico once a territory or state of Mexico?
Can anyone establish for certain whether New Mexico was a state or territory of Mexico after 1821 (i.e., what formally became of the Province of New Mexico of New Spain after Mexican independence?). As far as I know, Mexico never has had provinces (only states and territories under its constitution). -- Decumanus 22:00, 2005 May 8 (UTC)


 * Well spotted. Under the 1824 Constitution of Mexico it was a federally administered territory. I'm not sure whether or not the 1835 santannista bases constitucionales changed that or not. –Hajor 01:08, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

Santa Fe expedition
Just read Dead Man's Walk and was surprised to find no reference to the Santa Fe expedition in this article. Does anyone know anything about it?--Charlie Perry 04:55, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

Paragraph removed from "Demographics" section

 * The current "re-colonization" of Santa Fe has brought social strife to prior long term residents that has commercialized the beauty of traditional Native American and Hispanic life, land, art, and religion. This process of gentrification has pushed out the culture that can no longer survive in the changed economic conditions brought by "artists" and "movie stars."  Local culture is most acurately defined by stereotyped and homogenized "native" and "Latin" culture that is commercialized for "tourism" and "progress" of the oppressed population instead of growth of the pre-Anglicized/ commercialized culture.

-GTBacchus(talk) 19:40, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
 * 1) I'm not entirely sure what that even says.
 * 2) It's original research unless it's sourced.

Images
Do not use thumbnails wider than 200px. It always fucks the formatting and looks like ass in browser windows smaller than 1024px (i.e., 99% of the world's viewers).

Place images where they make sense, do not randomly sprinkle them in the text. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.35.148.201 (talk) 21:20, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

While you are cleaning up the article you could take a few seconds to clean up the language you used in this talk page. Wikipedia is supposed to be devoid of such language. --AlainV 22:47, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

Climate
I'm not saying it's necessarily false, but I doubt the winter temperatures don't go higher than four degrees Celsius. Can anyone verify this? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.33.27.18 (talk) 23:15, 9 October 2006 (UTC)


 * As a resident, 4 C sounds like a reasonable average during the winter. -- ST —Preceding undated comment added 05:37, 5 November 2006‎

Remove "Sports" section
Neither of those teams are based in Santa Fe. Scorpions were based in Albuquerque, and I'll be that other team was too. I think they should be added to either the ABQ page, or the New Mexico page, and removed from the Santa Fe section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Spherical Time (talk • contribs) 05:33, 5 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Whoops, my bad, these are the new youth leagues. Sorry, I must be tired.  --  ST —Preceding undated comment added 05:34, 5 November 2006‎

Is this real?
Santa Fe (Spanish, "Holy Faith") (full form: La Villa Real de Stefan Zimpasa asis, English: Royal City of the Holy Faith of St. Francis of Assisi) Vivaverdi 02:50, 26 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Yes — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.123.157.253 (talk) 10:53, 1 April 2006 (UTC)


 * No, it's La Villa Real de la Santa Fé de San Francisco de Asís, and the article correctly has it in there now. — SMcCandlish &#91;talk&#93; &#91;cont&#93;   ‹(-¿-)› 01:23, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Comments about the deletion of the "Sculpture" section
Having an entire section on statuary, where there is no section on religious art, or native American art, or architecture in Santa Fe, is inappropriate and misleading for an encyclopedic article. Statuary should be subordinate to the larger topic of art in Santa Fe. Santa Fe is known for many diverse art forms and media, with statuary being just one. It would be great to see the section be rewritten as a section on the arts. In such a section, mention of statuary would be perfectly appropriate. -- Natch —Preceding undated comment added 19:53, 7 November 2004‎


 * Natch, I hope that you set yourelf up with a user page so that we can discuss some of your changes to Santa Fe. Although the staturay section was not mine [though one of the photos was] I think that building up a discussion of the other arts around it might have been a beeter solution than deleting what was there.  Santa Fe is a major sculpture market and I think what was there was acurate.  As far as removing the architects names from the Capitol Building and labeling it as 'spam,' that is more of a mystery.  As an art historian I like knowing who the architect of a building is and am considering adding that information to all the state capitols here but don't wish to get in a editing snit with you about it.  If it were a picture of the Mona Lisa would you object to Da Vinci's name being included?  Carptrash 00:08, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)


 * Yes, deleting a section simply because other sections should exist is entirely the wrong way to go about working on an article here. If the deletion has not been reverted, it should be. —  SMcCandlish &#91;talk&#93; &#91;cont&#93;   ‹(-¿-)› 01:33, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Santa Fe in Spanish has no accent.
Why am I not allowed to correct the name of the town in Spanish? it is Santa Fe in Spanish and not Santa Fé. The accents in Spanish are used as a guide for pronunciation, as the word is a monosyllable, there is no need for an accent. The Spanish language equivalent of the OED, RAE, does not recognise the word 'fé' fe RAE. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jsqb (talk • contribs) 18:23, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Santa Fe, or Santa Fé?
Wéll? TheMadBaron 18:23, 6 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Between living there for six years, and googling just now, I can't find a single instance of anyone spelling it "Santa Fé". Even websites en Español spell it without the accent. GTBacchus 18:50, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

Thanks. Just checking. From the Santa Fe disambiguation page. I gather that the Spanish is Santa Fe, and the Portuguese is Santa Fé (various places in Brazil). I've edited the Comanche History page accordingly. TheMadBaron 22:55, 6 October 2005 (UTC)


 * It actually is "Santa Fé" (see City Seal in infobox in this article, or the cover of Santa Féan magazine), but few English-speakers spell it that way any longer, and state and local govt. paperwork doesn't use the diacritic, either, at least not on the English-language forms (cf. the Santa Fe County Seal for an example); I couldn't say for certain about the Spanish paperwork. — SMcCandlish &#91;talk&#93; &#91;cont&#93;   ‹(-¿-)› 01:29, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

It ought to be Santa Fe both in Spanish and English. Fe (faith) does not have a stress mark, i.e., accent, in Spanish. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jsqb (talk • contribs) 17:39, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

According to the dictionary of the Real Academia Española (www.rae.es), there is no such word as "fé." If it were a conjugated form of a verb, then this dictionary would also say it doesn't exist, but that would not apply in this case since it is a noun, and I cannot find a verb that has a conjugated form of "fe". The only reason for a one syllable word to have an accent in Spanish is to distinguish it from another word that would otherwise be the same, or to mark it as interrogative or exclamatory. Examples "tú" meaning "you" and "tu" meaning "your." JHBledsoe —Preceding comment was added at 12:15, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

"Arts and culture" section expanded
And it probably needs more work, but it was woefully inadequate and a lot of the material appeared under the Demographics section. Vivaverdi 22:29, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

Shouldn't Canyon Road be expanded to be a little more than a 2 lines? And also I feel like the railyard district is almost more important as far a developing Santa Fe culturally. Thoughts? User:AdamFJohnson 17:02, 24 January 2006

AGREE on need for expansion. Railyard plans in progress will greatly change that area. I'm too new to Santa Fe to write much on it now, but encourage others to do so. My revisions were an attempt to make some of this flow rather better. It could still do with some revisions.... Vivaverdi 01:34, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

The "Canyon Road" link is directed to a page about Canyon Road in Oregon, not Santa Fe —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.90.62.136 (talk) 01:15, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Notable residents
I support the removal of the latest attempt to include a totally unknown. Could be personal promo. Viva-Verdi (talk) 04:46, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Or the opposite, an attempt to embarrass the person named. --Una Smith (talk) 14:24, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Santa Fe dates in history & Pueblo Revolt
The 4th paragraph in the history section claims: "The site was completely abandoned for decades because of the Pueblo Revolt, it was re- established by Juan Martinez de Montoya ca. 1607-1608", which is clearly wrong since the Pueblo revolt was 1680. I don't have the correct resources to straighten out this article. Does anyone out there have them, know the dates from another resource?

Mmchile (talk) 04:38, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

The Sante FE Miracle Staircase Kyle .L.
These Set of Staircase in a Sante Fe Church-Loretto Chaple, are called the Miracle Stairs because they are not built with any tools or even 1 nail Kyle .L.! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.159.134.4 (talk) 22:14, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Driver's Licences for Illegal Immigrants
Now that individuals from nations on terrorist watch lists have been caught in New Mexico attempting to get driver's licenses, the fact that New Mexico still gives out licenses to illegal immigrants may go from being a bad idea to being a really, really terrible idea in terms of public safety and national security. It is impossible to talk about modern New Mexico without discussing the deeply misguided policy of handing out licenses to illegal immigrants -- an approach which rewards and validates illegal behavior, and which will inevitably encourage more illegal behavior. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.44.144.129 (talk) 23:59, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Santa fe has a safe haven law implemented in the 70's for mexican political prisioners. It says that illegal aliens can live and work without being citizens. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.212.137.114 (talk) 22:52, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

And what does that have to do with Santa Fe? The art section is one unsourced paragraph and you want us to talk about driver's license issuing policies? gimme a break. 1337hax 66.37.169.171 (talk) 10:10, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Fake adobe?
having grown up in santa fe I have never heard of fakeadobe. perhaps I was out of the loop.-Luba b. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.23.32.135 (talk) 07:56, 29 November 2005 (UTC)


 * There's plenty of "fake adobe" in this town. Basically, many newer structures are wood-framed buildings with insulation added - 10" wide or so for houses - and then "chicken wire" added to be covered in a series of layers of "fake" adobe eother in the traditional dirt color or "stained" that way. Vivaverdi 17:45, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Yes, that's true, but I don't think the term actually warrants usage. User:AdamFJohnson —Preceding undated comment added 04:37, 22 February 2006‎

I live in Santa Fe, and I've heard the term "fauxdobe" used to describe the wood-framed stuccoed technique that is used for most new construction here. I've never heard "fakeadobe". If nobody objects I'll change it... Syperk 18:54, 6 August 2006 (UTC)


 * It's not "fake adobe" (much less "fakeadobe"), it's simply stucco, and a neo-pueblo architectural style. — SMcCandlish &#91;talk&#93; &#91;cont&#93;   ‹(-¿-)› 01:25, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

The current prose does a disservice to the City (sortof)Different's long fascination with its outward appearance. Starting with the dubious claim that statehood era work on the Palace of the Governors comprised a "restoration" the article paints the usual naive impression of Santa Fe's mandated style. The "restoration" was in fact a remodeling project intended to remove Greco-American architectural features after the territory won statehood. This according to publications by a renowned UNM professor of architecture who exposes the "Myth of Santa Fe": prior to statehood city officials preferred a more European look to make them appear appropriate members of the new (white) nation. After statehood, and after the railroad bypassed Santa Fe, city planners recognized an opportunity to cater to upscale tourists by representing portions of the city's past in architectural codes. Contrary to the claims in thus article, the codes were not adopted in 1912, but were incrementally imposed over a period of several decades. The codes never dictated style throughout the town, but only in designated districts. TriciaMontoya (talk) 20:59, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

Santa Fe Government Officials
Over the past several weeks there have been two competing versions of the Santa Fe government listed on the page. The current version (as of morning 5/7/09) has been substituted for the alternative version most recently at 03:52 of 5/6/09. This version has two problems with it. First, it includes party identification for elected officials (which was corrected earlier today), which is inappropriate as Santa Fe's elections are non-partisan. Second, it lists only six city councilors, not the eight (two per district). Both of the district three councilors, Miguel Chavez and Carmichael Dominguez, are omitted from the list. They will be added.

I don't know whether the intent of the substitution was to improve the formatting of the entry (the different tables appear in different sections) but the inclusion of party identification for holders of nonpartisan offices and the omission of city councilors needs to stop. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 164.64.74.44 (talk) 14:58, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Santa fe rules —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.27.236.91 (talk) 22:55, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

Santa Fe Bus Terminal Closure
I've deleted the text on Greyhound and Autobuses Americanos from the article as the facility on St. Michaels Drive is now closed (this occurred during summer 2009) and retitled the section "Rail" from "Bus and rail". I've found no web links indicating the facility closed or stating the city is no longer served by these two firms but the web sites of both bus operators no longer list Santa Fe as a city served. 164.64.74.44 (talk) 19:24, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Famous people from Santa Fe
A list for noteworthy people from Santa Fe should be started. Zach Condon, Georgia O'Keeffe, (Not born or raised, but is very significant to)

and others obviously should be added, when a list of at least ten is compiled on the discussion page I am going to add it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.33.27.18 (talk) 23:15, 9 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Georgia O'Keeffe never lived in Santa Fe for very long.  Her primary residence was in Abiqiu.  The reason her Museum is in Santa Fe, is because Santa Fe was a better place to display her art.  Other notable people that did live in Santa Fe for extended periods include Witter Bynner and . . . darn I'm forgetting, I'll have to look that up. --  ST —Preceding undated comment added 05:33, 5 November 2006‎


 * O'Keeffe spent the last several years of her life in Santa Fe. Some other noteworthy current Santa Feans include Gov. Bill Richardson, Sen. Tom Udall, former CIA officer Valerie Plame,  Ambassador Joseph C. Wilson, and Academy Award-winning actor Gene Hackman.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.18.35.83 (talk) 04:03, 20 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Archbishop Jean-Baptiste Lamy and actresses Shirley MacLaine and Ali MacGraw also lived in Santa Fe. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 164.64.74.44 (talk) 18:06, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

George Washington slept here too. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.141.65.25 (talk) 22:04, 13 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Seriously, why no famous people section? Also, you might mention something about the local music scene.  There's rock, and country, and norteño, etc. --66.157.49.85 (talk) 23:32, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

External links added to promote someone's business. Do we allow this???
I have reverted one link today, and now find that it is back in place. It is:

(link removed) Right now it contains nothing, as does its Taos, New Mexico companion, where clicking on the so-called sections produces nothing. I would like to see agreement here that justifies the removal of what are purely commercial, self serving links to external sites.Vivaverdi 06:20, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
 * no reason to link it here anymore, removed. &there4; here&hellip;&spades; 21:45, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

'''Agreed policy on exclusion of commercial external links promoting individual businesses. PLEASE ADD YOUR THOUGHTS'''

With many popular articles such as real estate broker or real estate, there is a consensus amongst editors that the inclusion of purely commercial links to promote an individual business or commercial enterprise should not be allowed. Therefore, real estate agent website links are quickly removed.

In this article, some commerical sites creep in and are generally reverted. PLEASE add your comments below in support of a policy not to allow commercial links.

Vivaverdi 22:29, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I generally agree. Few exceptions are warrented, (opera, o'keeffe museum, and lensic are arguably commercial links), but specific businesses or commercially driven sites should be strongly discouraged.  Help craft WP:EL to reflect your views :).  &there4; here&hellip;&spades; 01:08, 28 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I absolutely agree. Some say that "Wikipedia makes the internet not suck."  In my opinion, what makes that true is our freedom from advertising.  The quickest way to destroy Wikipedia would be to allow commerce to take it over. Commercial links must not be allowed.  -- Mwanner | Talk 02:42, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

See WP:EL and WP:SPAM for future reference; this stuff isn't even at issue - such links are not permitted. — SMcCandlish &#91;talk&#93; &#91;cont&#93;   ‹(-¿-)› 01:26, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

One key criterion for external links here, as for all content here, is notability. Museums are notable; real estate agents are not. Most travel related businesses are not notable here but they would be perfectly welcome on Wikitravel. --Una Smith (talk) 14:23, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

I wanted to add a link to Macaroni Kid Santa Fe. It's a site that offers weekly updates of events for families in Santa Fe, NM. There is some advertising on the site, but it is intended for disseminating information to people moving to, living in, or visiting Santa Fe. I got a message that the link was not allowed. How should I proceed? Lauren1kaye (talk) 22:30, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Luminaria
Luminaria (vigil fire) is due to appear on the Main Page in the Did You Know column tomorrow, Christmas Eve. Some good photos of luminaria in Santa Fe would really help to fill out the article. Can you help? The article on farolitos could use more photos too. --Una Smith (talk) 14:00, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

hi —Preceding unsigned comment added by 163.153.82.193 (talk) 13:22, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

Include Santa Fe restaurants? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ydboyer (talk • contribs) 20:00, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

1607?
I thought the town was founded in 1609 or 1610. Funnyhat 07:23, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * Here's a source that talks about the date being uncertain, but certainly either 1607 or 1608. Its formal and legal founding, or incorporation, as opposed to first settlement, was in 1610 by Don Pedro de Peralta. GTBacchus 4 July 2005 06:28 (UTC)

Demographic layout and gentrification
I know the city of Santa Fe very well, for one, I was born there. I can't help but be a little annoyed that there are little to no references to how the city has been continually gentrified since the 1970's onwards. I put a section of this in the main page a few days ago and it was reverted. I understand why it was reverted, but would anyone be particularly opposed to having that section in if the proper citation is used? It is a historical fact that a very well publicized mayoral election, that in 1994, pertained to the problem of gentrification in Santa Fe and that Debbie Jaramillo ran on the anti-development platform against incumbent mayor Sam Pick. It is also a demographic fact that Santa Fe is fairly segregated economically, with the Eastern side being largely well to do and white, and the Western side being largely low income and Latino.

Any opinions? Thanks, cheers. EnglishEfternamn *t/c*  07:43, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Gentrification is a good thing to explain, but yeah, only with solid sources. Focusing on one mayoral election doesn't seem like the best way to do that, though. That seem WP:UNDUE, especially since much of it is already explained on the Debbie Jaramillo article. Any addition should clearly explain who is describing Santa Fe as economically segregated. "...is often seen by locals as..." is too much of a WP:WEASEL phrase to work for something like this. Any description of the east-west split should be clearly attributed and dated, because these divisions are a lot fuzzier from the outside looking in. Where is the line, St. Francis Dr, maybe? The article doesn't even mention Agua Fria, or that it's not inside city limits. Also, the city isn't what it was in 1994, either, with all the growth by the Airport, or Rancho Viejo, for example. Trying to explain this without some of that background could be misleading. Rather than writing what we just-so-happen-to-know to be true, it would be better to find sources first, and write from there. Grayfell (talk) 08:13, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
 * The general dividing line is Cerrillos Dr. and if you compare say, the Plaza with Agua Fria (the are most "Westernly") you see an intense difference. I see this every single time I'm in Santa Fe, and anyone who lives there or spends any time there and OBSERVES, knows this.
 * However, you're absolutely right that someone saying they saw is not reason enough to put it in the article. I'm in agreement with that. So although I'm going to remain very interested in expanding on this theme, I will try very hard to come up with a good encyclopedic reason to do so first. Sound acceptable? :) EnglishEfternamn  *t/c*  09:27, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Yup, sounds good. My round-about point about St. Francis was that if you look at a map of Santa Fe, Cerrillos isn't really an east-west road, and it doesn't divide the city in half, it just shaves off a sliver. I grew up in Santa Fe too, but the article needs to make sense to those who didn't. That's why I'm thinking the 1994 mayoral election might need too much background and context to avoid being confusing, and that seems like undue weight, so a different approach might be better. Grayfell (talk) 19:19, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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Sock revert.
Regarding this massive revert, most or all of these edit appear to me to have been from User:Uto-Aztecan, who has been blocked for sock puppetry per Sockpuppet investigations/DonSpencer1. This revert was based on WP:BE, under the safe assumption that there were major problems with them, even if some of the changes were superficially positive.

I had noticed these when they first were made, and they seemed a bit weird, but I assumed good faith and din't look very closely. Yesterday I (coincidentally) filed a sock puppet investigation for an unrelated set of edits which discovered via checkuser that Uto-Aztecan was part of the same farm. (This also behaviorally matches the sockmaster, so there is no reason to doubt these findings at all.)

While some of these edits might be positive, there is a long history of original research, shoddy sourcing, strange emphasis on specific topics and ideas, as well as similar disruptive edits and general contempt for Wikipedia and the project's processes and guidelines. If anyone would like to restore any of these changes, I would strongly advice that they look very closely at all sources and make sure every change is appropriate and helpful. Grayfell (talk) 07:35, 16 December 2018 (UTC)

Notable people from Santa Fe?
Some of the people listed in the notable section are not really from Santa Fe. For instance, Robert Redford owns a ranch there but his primary residence is in Utah. He was born in California. Seems like this could be split into two subsections to be more accurate, notable people born or grew up there and notable people who have residences there. Bgbg4444 (talk) 23:28, 12 February 2020 (UTC)

I meant to add it's a good page with some useful information. And the issue I note affects numerous city pages, not just Santa Fe. Bgbg4444 (talk) 23:31, 12 February 2020 (UTC)


 * I've noticed this issue a lot as well. I'm guessing it's come up before, but I can't recall seeing it in the WP:MOS. Perhaps someone with WikiProject Biography or WikiProject Geography might have some insight. Grayfell (talk) 00:40, 13 February 2020 (UTC)

Good. I noticed some cities get around that by putting in a clause at the top about how the following people are from said city or lived a significant part of their lives in said city. Maybe that's how it's dealt with. Bgbg4444 (talk) 08:12, 13 February 2020 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 22:37, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Dinosaur family, Cerillos Rd industrial Park.jpg