Talk:Santal people

Untitled
The claim that the Aryans brought agriculture to India is incorrect; agriculture predates the Aryans by several millennia. The article regretfully paints a very confused picture of early Indian history and needs work. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Liontooth (talk • contribs) 01:34, 15 November 2008 (UTC) This article although not containing detailed discussion on the referred community still gives a very clear picture about the santhals in clear and lucid language .A more detailed and comprehensive discussion is yet to come (user [sumitsoren]).

The tone of the article is not very neutral - "axis of evil" vs the "simple and honest Santhals"? Please. Plus punctuation errors. If I get time, I'll edit it a bit, but too busy at the moment, sorry. I don't know enough about the Santhals to write it again, though. sbrocky.

WP:INDIA Banner/Jharkhand workgroup Addition
They eat excreation of their people.

About Olchiki script and Santali language
It is not appropriate to say that the srcipt olchiki is meant for santal peoples only and recent invention. The invention of olchiki script instill a sense of confidence, pride resumnate, solidarity and confidence  amongst the santal, Kolhe, Malhe etc  peoples  for the  developement of modern santali language and literature  residing in the state of Orissa, West-Bengal, Bihar, Assam  and other part of Indian state to get their modern Indians identity as " Jharkhandi". On the principle of identity of self rather than imitation the invention of  olchiki script  was done which is not fully deceipher from the ancient indic  script found from the excavation of Mahenjodaro & Harrapan civilisation.It can  also played as  modern role to strenthen the Indians literature & culture.If the old civilisation became ancient civilisation of BHARAT known presetly as Indus Valley civilisation,than under what circumtances peoples who are engaging in resarching  work telling Santhal "music, culture & Olchiki script"are different from modern Hindustani  music & Script and culture. Rather it can be said "Olchiki Script" is the nature Shape and its formative style also  proves the same, whereas the sanskrit script  "Devnagiri" is Akar Shape without the nature Akar can't came out.it is the unique distinct  modern invented "indict script" which has both capital and small letter with its short hand.The Santali Language music and culture are not only base of world language and culture but also root  of modern Bharatiya script,culture and languages.The Sanskrit languages and groups of culture  came out and developed   from Santal,Ho,Kol,Munda etc language and cultutre and known as Vedic literature and Culture whereas the santali literature and culture are Pre-vedic instead of categorising as "Austro-Asiatic Groups" and Munda Family of language.In modern India  Hindi played as  national  language of  country as per the constitution but  presently failed to bind the modern Indians culture  by the modern literature, resulted the Bhasa bad ,jatibad, Khetrobad has been crop-up in the different part of India. During the time of uprising of modern Indians/Bharatiya on the bassis of socio cultural similarity and linguitical sovereingty the invention of olchiki script was also done and developed by pandit R.N.Murmu in the year of 1925,prior to that in the ending era of 19th century  another script was invented by sadhu Ram Chand Murmu known as " Muj-Dandhi". It is strongly quated that the modern Olchiki scrit developed from the same script of Sadhu Ramchand Murmu.It was the quatation of Pandit R.N.Murmu also that one day "Sanat & Ponot" will came across "olchiki & Santali" language will get its recognition like others modern Indians languages in its own state which  will be known "Jaher-khond" peoples state "Jharkhand".It has evident from the act of BJP lead NDA govt also who were   created the Jharkhand  state on the 15th day of November 2000 in the eve of New millenium. On the other hand constituent assembly on modern language also proved  that, inspite of rich santali literature both modern and traditional on the 14th day of september 1949 debated   under the presidentship of Pandit Jabaharlal Nehru the inclusion of santali language was ignored in the VIII scheduled of the constitution as well as   the creation of Jharkhond state. The non creation of Jharkhand state and non  inclusion of Santali language  was nothing but an deliberate act and thought  of the britisher who has taken the revenge from this linguitics community. As they were strongly prevented and objected by the "Jaher-Khond" peoples while they just started their supermacy over the Indians sub-continents. All these are evident from the great Santal Hool,Kolhan Bidraha,Chero,Munda andalon etc of 1785 to 1900 leaded by Baba Tilka Majhi(Murmu), Sido-Kanhu Murmu, Birsha Munda etc. But it has omitted in the modern history writer  of modern Bharat.Its  couse the great unawarness  to the progressive modern generation of the country. During the period of creation of moder Indians state by the britisher on the basis of socio-cultural similarity and linguitically sovereighnty a  separate Jharkhand  state identity was also  placed by Sunaram Soren, and Jaipal Singh from 1935.They were also stongly objected for inclusion of Maurbhanj,Keonjhar and Sundergarh district with modern Odissa state under Merger Act, and demanded for  creation of Jharkhand state " Like Identity of self rather than imitation".It has evident from the massarcs of " GUNDURIYA FIELD" near Rairangpur  of orissa on the 6th day of feb 1949. when the demand of separate identity with its own script and language meeting was called by Sunaram Soren  the innocent unarmed people were massarcs ruthlesly in the name of ALGAO-BAD and their literature as ALGAO-BADI. There after these peoples script,language,culture,social etc became object of  research large numbers of intlectuals researchers, scholars etc started the reaserch  over the language and script,social and cultural set- up of santal,Ho,Munda etc  but instead of telling the truth they try to categories the script, language and Ho,Munda, santal etc  tribes with the  Austro-Asiatic groupe of language and culture like the naming of Banachal state and peoples Banabasi. It can further be state here that the modern thinker who are engage in developing the adivasi community started compare the script different from the modern Indians script and languages and effort were taken by them to designed these groupes of peoples as BANABASI and state as BANANCHAL some imbecile dumps executive of different Santal organisation also dance in their tune and stated  the olchiki and santali languages different from  modern Indians script and Culture. Taking these advantage converted santali peoples in to Christianity also started the developement of language, literature  and culture of Santal by the ROMAN script. On the other side it's facilitate them to more  conversion of these linguitics peoples in mass way. Each and every educated santal,Ho,Munda etc peoples knows from their ancesters that they  are the orginal inhabitants of Bharat popularly known as Hindusthan though they are not "HINDU". The word "Hindu" has been derived from the word "Hende" as per santali language "Hende" means "Black" "Thaan" means "place", in a total sense the residing place of "Black peoples" is known as "HENDE THAAN" in long long years ago they had also developed the civilisation which can challenged the world civilisation. It is evident from the present civilisation found from the excavation of  Mahenjodara & Harrapa on the bank of river sindhu.It is  subsequently became "HINDU THAAN" present modern peoples compare its with Hindu religion and Hindu peoples as per the river Sindhu. Than the subsequent developement of the words converted to "Hindusthan". Whearas the peoples of HENDE THAAN orginal religion were  "SARI or SARNA" it has two way to preach one is  "SANAT" means trasparen with out any sacrifice of lives another is "MANAT" means as per their present tradition preach by sacrificing the lives to their God & Goddeses in every village. There worshiping place is known as " Jaher-than,Disauli,Sarna etc.They are the worshiper of nature i.e. Sun & Earth and are sincear as well as truthfulness in charecter.The  sculpture found from the excavation are comparing with Hindu religious dieties and idols. The word "SANATAN" has been derived from the word "SANAT" only "AN" has been included with the orginal word.After the implementation of Indian Constitution these Munda,Ho, santal,Mahale etc  peoples has been included in the "Backward Class" under Article 15(4) and known as  scheduled tribe under Article 342(i) and divided the Jharkhand sovereighnty and peoples in the state of Orissa,West Bengal,Bihar etc. We should not forget that there is also the provision of including and excluding the tribes, any group or  community from the list under Art-342(ii).After the inclusion "SANTALI" ln the VIII scheduled of the constitution  the modern thinker should refrain themself from defacing more and more.They are also some time  blame  the pioneer of modern indians constitution as well as  they argued about the redrafting of present constitution.It is the universal truth it cannot be distorted more and ignored the demands which has already placed before the centre and state government.The centre &   state government of Jharkhand should demonstrate their  commitment resolve determination and capacity to combat an end  the neforious design of those forces whos aim as to destroy the socio-cultural cohesion and secularity ethoes of Jaher-khand peoples. After the creation of Jharkhond state and to full fill all these  demand of language,History  and culture of the state it is  the duty of the concerning state government to form the "State Language Commission & Judicial Commission", but alas no positive effort has so far  been  taken till date.It is obvious that  after creation of Jharkhand state and inclusion of santali language in the scheduled VIII of the constitution great expectation in terms of raising the standard of living up grading the quality, equity and equality of social justice will raisen by these peoples. It is also fully mandate and envisages in the constitution. But it is not undrestood the created Jharkhand state is meant for whom and why ? Who are Banabasi and who are Adibasi ? reality can not be distored more. It is the time to strike togather for developement of modern and prosperous state and country under the modern constitutional set up. In this new era we should identify those elements who are engage in defacing the ancient Indians culture and literature in the name of "Cultural and National integration thought"under the guise of developement. The modern thinker should learn the meaning of ADIBASI "A" denotes for ADDI(begning),"D" for Developed,"I" for Ideal, "B" for Bravery,"A" for And,"S" for Social & "I" for Inhabitants. These peoples are presently known as ADIBASI in the present modern age they are neither BANABASI nor Girijon. They can be designated as "ADIM" means Indegenous peoples of Bharat. Is not it in the name of developement & researching the culture, script,social etc of   indegenous peoples of Bharat  have been kept in the edge ? Is it also presently  seems that some  modern Indians are became more and more  untolerent towards them and again try to convert them in to Hinduism. Now the demand has already been placed before the state and centre govt for appointment of National commission for "Backward class" under Article 340 and "language commission" under article 340 to give the equality & dignity of Santali language under 345& 347 and "Sarna Riligious Commission" by Bharatiya Santali Boy's Federation,Purudhul(Philosopher's) federation and womens federation  to get the recognition of santali as a state language of Jharkhand, IInd language in Orissa and West-Bengal as well as to survey the "SARNA" religious peoples. if Kerla become Malaylee and peoples are known as Kerlians, than why not "Jaher-Khond" peoples will not get their identity as Jharkhondi and language as santali as well as relgious identity like "Sikhism"  like  Panjab state.In the modern bharat every body has get their  sub- regional identity on the basis of modern language i.e. Oriya, Bengali,Tamil, Marathi,Gujurati,Telgu,Assamiya  etc than why the double standard has been adopted towards  these Jharkhondi peoples and entire intellectuals mass of the country  remain mum to day ? As per the modern constitution every body can reside in any part of the state and work together for development of state and country. Now the ball is in the court of centre and State government how to fulfill within the preview of modern constitution. So its need the thought of renovation and superteck to bring India in to a Modern socialist country as envisages in the constitution.According to modern new era we should change our thought, instead of engage in denouncing  and defacing the ancient  culture custom and tradition of this country. Every body should concentrate the work for national intregation in regard to " Literature & Culture" So that this country can became the Bharat Varsh and we will be known as Bharatiya instead of Hindustani a "nike" name given by the Mughals .In this new era of 21st century we should make out the Bharatiya calender & financial year as per our month  from among the recognised languages and calculation. It will bring the complete meaning of BHARAT VARSH.As per the constitution Hindi is a National language, SAKA-ERA is national calendar " Chait" is the begning month but it has not clearify wheather it is begning of calendar or financial month.Hence the English calendar and financial year has been accepted after the implementation of the constitution. Now after the inclusion of Santali in the scheduled languages and as per caculation of santali "Magh" is a begning month and " Push" is the ending month,so we suggest "Magh to Push" should be the Calendar year and " Baisakh to Chait" should be the financial years. It will gives the modern literature and cultural sovereignty of Modern Bharat and the country will be known as "BHARAT VARSH" peoples as "BHARATIYA" instead of "Hinsuatani". Presently we are working as per the English calendar and financial year. Is not it we are searching our culture and literature  inside the western literature and culture ???. So the wise old man telling "Caming together is begning,Walking together is progress and Working together is success"(122.50.130.26 (talk) 13:44, 2 January 2010 (UTC)). ('''The writer is also composure & publisher of JUGADHAW SOMBOT-5000 in SANTALI calculated as per Sun year, the Lunar calculation was done by Pondit Murmu during the time of composition and developement of " OLCHIKI" script under his calendar "GODDET")(122.50.137.61 (talk) 07:57, 31 December 2009 (UTC))(112.133.214.254 (talk) 10:50, 6 November 2012 (UTC))


 * "The Santali Language music and culture are not only base of world language and culture ..." Please don't take this the wrong way, but I'd like to suggest that you need medication. I only say that because I want to help. 115.187.74.73 (talk) 05:54, 24 January 2014 (UTC)Kookologist

Edited By: Chunuram Murmu & Bhuglu Marandi General Secretary ODISHA,Jharkhand & West-Bengal —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.153.44.130 (talk) 12:23, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Reverted move to "Santals"
I really don't see the need to make this plural. The term "Santal" seems to work to cover the whole group. In those cases where the plural is used in titles, Celts, etc. it's mainly because gramatically the singular form doesn't work for the plural in English. But in this case, I don't see how it can't be used in a sentence as "The Santal are a group which..." So I've reverted back to the singluar version. MatthewVanitas (talk) 15:45, 28 June 2011 (UTC)


 * We use the plural in the article, as in the header for the info box. We could go with 'Santal(i) people' maybe? — kwami (talk) 12:55, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

We have not used the words SANTALI in Singural forms, Language Literature and Culture of Santals itself proves the plurals society, since from residing over the "North Eastern" region of India. It's proves from the tradition and myth carry forwards from Generation to Generation and written scriptures. The "Santal" is a Principal Sub-community of " KHERWALS" which can be known as ADDIM-KHERWALS(Addim Adibasi)of India or Jaher-Khond people or nature worshipers groups. Bhuglu Marndi(14.99.70.214 (talk) 06:58, 22 November 2011 (UTC))

What is the difference between "Santal & Santali" is it caste entity or something more...???
I am a bloggers and posted my blogs since April- 2011, but prior to that the language, literature portals of Santal has already define and describe in every place. Let us have some discussion and clarification over the issue..caste and Linguistic..Santal & Santali...(112.133.214.250 (talk) 05:43, 3 November 2012 (UTC))

RapajBoma Bloggers — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.252.234.75 (talk) 08:20, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

The article on Santali has some big mistake and new political influences. Where its heading written as `"Santali" people' here santali is not correct placing for name of the race. Santali is a name of SANTAL people's language. it should not be named a race. So, it should be change immediately. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ghonokuashabaskey (talk • contribs) 08:09, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

Santali is a language of Kherwal ("Kher" means Birds & " Wals" means generation, So please clarify yours doubt about Language, caste or a race or community (@drBhonkol) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 112.133.214.251 (talk) 06:56, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

The Kherwal is Ancient community of Bharat popularly known as "ADDIM-KHERWAL" their language is SANTALI, the words SANTAL is recent origin and may be from SAT=SAINT=SAINT+AL = SANTAL .(Parbati Hembram (talk) 02:02, 2 November 2013 (UTC))

th or t?
Why is it spelled "Santali language" but "Santhali culture"? -- Reinhard Dietrich (talk) 18:37, 11 June 2016 (UTC)

"... functions that focus on placating potentially dangerous spirits and coordinating rituals."
An editor is persistently removing this cited material. Unless someone can show that it is demonstrrably wrong, it should stay, correct? PaulCHebert (talk) 22:01, 18 October 2017 (UTC)

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Party
Do Santal people have own political party?--Kaiyr (talk) 10:46, 11 March 2019 (UTC)

Population and Religions of Santal People
This article shows that religion followed by santal people are Sarnaism, Hinduism and Christianity. But Census of India 2011 clear shows that Santal people who lives in Jharkhand, Bihar, Odisha, West Benagal and Tripura also follow religions like Islam, Sikhism, Buddhism, Jainism, Other religions and persuasions besides Sarnaism, Hinduism and christianity. (To check the data please follow the link - http://www.censusindia.gov.in/2011census/SCST-Series/ST14.html). This article must recognize Santal people of all religious belief. At the last line of Religion column, it says, "Around 4% of Santals have converted to Christianity. The vast majority still follow their original beliefs". This sentence is misleading in nature. Census of india 2011 indicates that there are 5.46% santals who follow christainity and total of 63% santals follow Hinduism. So, vast majority of santals follow Hinduism. Also, reference 3 and 4 are not reliable sources. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Blkid (talk • contribs) 18:15, 3 November 2019 (UTC)


 * Seems correct. According to data from Jharkhand, the majority, 1.4 million are Hindus, followed by 1 million of "other religious persuation". I wonder is it Sarnaism? Christians 236 K. Do we have numbers based on Santal population alone, that is not Santals of respective states. Computing data from each state will be a cumbersome job. I can phrase the sentence based on Jharkhand's data without mentioning specific percentages. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 18:49, 3 November 2019 (UTC)

I have checked the entire data in Census 2011. You just have to download the excel files of jharkhand, bihar, odisha, west bengal and tripura only.Blkid (talk) 08:30, 4 November 2019 (UTC)


 * Assam also has a population of Santals. We can't combine data from all states. We have to write them state by state. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 16:16, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

Erroneous information provided in the Religion Section
According to the Census 2011 most of the santal people follow Hindu religion. There is no mention of santal people following Sarna Religion in Census 2011. Please study the census 2011 before including it as reference. People use wikipedia for academic purpose. False or unreliable data can not be accepted. And if the person who wrote this article really want to publish his own opinion on the page then please do not include references which says otherwise. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sys 018901289 t (talk • contribs) 03:06, 2 August 2020 (UTC)
 * You realize, of course, that there is an "Other religions and persuasions" section in the census, and that religion data is broken down by Tribe. There is a separate table for religions returned under the heading "Other religions and persuasions" section for each tribe and Sarna is by far the largest option in their for Santals. Most Hos and Mundas recorded Sarna dharam as their religion. C1MM (talk) 05:53, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

Issues with Santali demographics
As per the 2011 census, ~1,03,000 people in Maharashtra and ~15,000 in Chhattisgarh recorded their language as Santali. All these speakers were recorded in the two districts of Gadchiroli (MH) and Narayanpur (CG), which is dominated by Madia Gonds. As per language data for STs, around 92,000 Gonds in Gadchiroli and 15,500 in Narayanpur district recorded their language as Santali, accounting for the high Santali figures there. However, in the 2001 census, 8.6% of the population in Gadchiroli recorded their language as "Maria," similarly ~3000 people did the same in Bastar (from which Narayanpur district was split off), and there is no mention of Santali at all (see this and this. It is possible the respondents returned their language under a different name and the idiots at the census erroneously clubbed it with Santali (assuming all tribals are the same of course), resulting in a corresponding drop in the number of people speaking Maria in Chhattisgarh and Maharashtra as the increase in Santali, so those figures should not be in the infobox. On the other hand, there is a well-known history of migration from Chota Nagpur to Assam by Santals to work in the Tea gardens so using those figures as a proxy for actual population is reasonable. C1MM (talk) 05:51, 4 March 2021 (UTC)


 * Although you may be correct, but writing what is not written explicitly is WP:OR. Anyway, I'm not going to re-add it since census figures seem contentious in some respects, especially dealing with smaller communities, linguistic groups and tribes. I know of the migration of Santalis to Assam and duars. Thanks for communicating in the talk page and I hope you carry on doing so in the future . - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 10:29, 4 March 2021 (UTC)


 * You can look at the census figures themselves, they say around 92,000 Gonds recorded their mother tongue as "Santali" in Gadchiroli and 15,000 in Narayanpur. That seems to me evidence that they are not Santals. Moreover they are not listed as a Scheduled Tribe in either region or have a history of migration there. I think that might be good enough as evidence and shouldn't count as WP:OR. Also there are examples of misclassifications: Pattani (a language spoken in Lahaul and Spiti) is misclassified as a Gujarati dialect.C1MM (talk) 15:40, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

"Sari Santal" listed at Redirects for discussion
An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Sari Santal and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Rusalkii (talk) 23:11, 19 December 2022 (UTC)

"Saridharam" listed at Redirects for discussion
An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Saridharam and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Jay 💬 02:45, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

Infobox, "Religion" inconsistency
The infobox says that 97% of people follow Islam. This is in contradiction to the content of the article, and the extensive talk discussion (which I am aware is colored by internal debates over identity). The inconsistency really should be resolved. tvleavitt (talk) 02:27, 4 September 2023 (UTC)