Talk:Santiago/Archive 1

Restaurants
This list does not belong here, WP is not a guide. Scriberius

Somebody should include the list of sister cities of santiago, thank you

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Spanish wiki
use google translate? 206.124.146.116 (talk) 05:16, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Saint James
This is what Santiago is in English. Santiago de Compostela's article also states this.--190.160.179.66 (talk) 06:09, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
 * does that necessarily apply to this city? it applies to Santiago de Compostela. LibStar (talk) 06:12, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Here's a website on this, i've added as a source http://www.tabblo.com/studio/stories/view/1047305/?nextnav=tag&tag=Santiago. Also, check wikipedia's entry on Saint James. It is Spain's parton, and all of the cities founded by Spanish with the name Santiago are in honor to this patron.--190.160.179.66 (talk) 06:17, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

Official Name
Santiago was founded in 1541 by Spanish Conqueror Pedro de Valdivia as 'Santiago del Nuevo Extremo', in honour of his native Extremadura. The official name of the city has never been 'Santiago de Chile', it's just a name invented to differenciate the city from the many others cities called Santiago in the world. But native chileans and most foreigners refers to the city just as Santiago, because the additive 'de Chile', is not really official and isn't correct.
 * Source that. ☆ CieloEstrellado 06:13, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Spanish Wikipedia
The spanish-language article (Santiago de Chile) has a lot of stuff (pictures, presumably information though I don't speak spanish) that could be put into the english-language article. Tlogmer 04:14, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

Picture of poor Neighborhood
The picture of a poor neighborhood of Santiago is out of place. I any other article of a capital I've seen pictures of poor neighborhoods. It has a little of bad intention, because everybody knows that all the cities have places like this one, but in an article of an encyclopedia, it's not necessary to show them because there are neither landmarks nor attractions of the city. I will thank everybody if that picture was taken off the main article. Thank you.


 * Wikipedia is not a list of landmarks or attractions, it is an encyclopedia. Many other articles for cities, for instance Rio de Janiero, contain similar pictures. I'll thank you not to continue removing the picture. Eliot 20:04, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

Well, then you should post pictures of all the poorer parts of all the cities, not just Santiago. There are much better pictures of Santiago to post, of more important parts, it's such a beautiful city. Also, that picture is not representative of Santiago, not even 15 per cent of the population live in those conditions


 * You are invited to add your own pictures to the entry. Please upload pictures you've taken yourself rather than ones downloaded from the Internet, as these are encumbred by copyright issues. Eliot 22:06, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

list of universities
That list is very large, i think that the page must have the most important, and a a link to a new page "list of universities in Santiago" (I've seen pages that are more nonsense than it). Chile is a curios case when if i do a speech on the street they give me the title of valid university, so to put every private university is a waste of space.

Religion
Why is it only listed one particular religion's temple building in the Religion listing? I think this religion is not the most relevant for the region nor the only one. It should be either complemented or removed.

New Metro Line
I've just made a minor change, there are two new metro lines, Line 4 and 4a that is used as a union between line 4 and line 2. Soon i'll be uploading a map of the entire subway system.

Citation about the fire
A short notice can be found at the site Chilean firemen (search for 1863). More detailed report can be found here. Unfortunately I do not know how to cite it. --Fpga 12:38, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Page move
I'm sorry, but I disagree with page movement. This is a very great change and hence it is necessary to discuss it first.Jespinos 16:53, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree with Jespinos. I also disagree with the rename. For one thing, the capital of Chile is Santiago not Gran Santiago. --Dúnadan 18:32, 14 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Perhaps there should have been some discussion about this change of name, and I admit that it did cause me to think quite a bit about what to do before I made the change, but let me explain my reasons then we can consider what to do.
 * Anyone searching for Santiago, Chile, will be automatically re-directed from that page to this one ... so there is no loss to anyone doing a search.
 * Although the article is entitled "Greater Santiago" most native English users would mentally filter out the "greater" part of the name when thinking or speaking of the city. The term is used to signify that there is a group of settlements which are conceptually considered to be part of a certain place's name.
 * The original article (before the name change and the merge of the material from "Santiago (municipality)") was really about Greater Santiago and not Santiago - the municipality - itself. (Consider what is written in "[edit] Basic urban data (2002)", "Demographics", "Economy", "Transportation", "Construction", "Political divisions". Many references are made that do not relate to the municipality of Santiago, itself.  To be about the municipality named Santiago, a great deal of material would have to be edited out and that would be a major re-write of the article.  Using re-directs to this article seemed to me the more efficient way of dealing with this issue.
 * If this article is to stay with the title it now has (Greater Santiago) with the redirects, it might be useful to do a bit more editing to clarify the distinctions between Santiago (the municipality) and the Santiago conurbation or Agglomeration. From the viewpoint of encyclopedic utility, I do think that in the end, we should have only one article, regardless of what it is called.  There simply isn't enough unique material to justify having two different articles.  J A X HERE  | T a l k 13:49, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Regarding the issue Santiago (the municipality or commune) vs. Santiago city, the simplest way to resolve it is putting a disambiguation link on the pages involved. It is not necessary a disambiguation page, because the most people that search for the phrase "Santiago, Chile" or "Santiago de Chile", do it having in mind the city or agglomeration, not the commune. For that same reason, it is not necessary to put "Greater Santiago, Chile", due to that the majority of persons presuppose that "Santiago, Chile" and "Greater Santiago, Chile" are equivalents.

Whether Santiago (commune) merits its own page or not, is something that would be determined by a group of editors. Notice that the same argument could be used for the rest of the communes forming the city of Santiago.

Another issue, Santiago Centro is only a part of Santiago (commune). Jespinos 19:10, 15 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Jespinos, you've just opened up a real can of worms. I've just checked at the official government page and it shows that Santiago is 1) a region, 2) a province, 3) a comuna.  To complicate matters further it is also a municipality and a city.  Each of these terms has a different and specific meaning and, in some cases the equivalent Spanish term has a different meaning from the English one.
 * Our challenge, as editors of Wiki is to resolve these differences and create something which makes sense and is useful to the majority of English-speaking users. I think that this end is best served in a single article which incorporates all of these issues and lays them out in a clear realtionship so that every reader who is interested can understand them.
 * Regarding the issue that Santiago Centro is only a part of Santiago (commune), I'm not even sure if there is, officially, an entity called "Santiago Centro". I've seen the term used, but, we need to provide the definition and clarify how it is used correctly, or eliminate the term from the article.
 * Regarding your comment that "(the result) is something that would be determined by a group of editors", keep in mind that Wiki is not a democracy. If we, who are interested at this time, decide on a solution, that solution will go into effect and perhaps will remain forever unless someone in the future decides to change it.  As I see it, our challenge is to produce a result that is so generally acceptable that no one will feel a need to make a change.  J A X HERE  | T a l k 13:28, 16 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Please remember that this controversy originated from the page move of "Santiago, Chile" and the merge of the article "Santiago (municipality)". In my opinion, almost all was well until the changes. The disambiguation page Santiago sorts out the issues mentioned by you, although it may be able to be improved. Don't make the mistake of thinking that all the well-intentioned changes improve the articles. Jespinos 17:33, 16 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I was probably wrong in stating that you opened a can of worms. The problem was already in existence, you just helped make it more evident.


 * I agree that our discussion about the problems began with the page move, however, if you refer to reason #3 in my explanation above, and go to a saved version of the page prior to the move, you can see that the article which was named "Santiago, Chile" was to a large extent about Greater Santiago. The article was faulty in this respect, it simply wasn't discussed until I made the move.


 * I just became aware of another problem with the article in looking at the map shown in it. Some of those comunas shown in the map aren't even in the Province of Santiago, such as Pirque, Puente Alto,Padre Hurtado, San Bernardo, etc. nor are they consistent with the list of communities shown in the article for the Province.  This is entirely misleading to a reader who isn't aware of the different divisions and their relationships to each other.  Is the map even correct?  What, officially, is the description of Greater Santiago?


 * You objected to the move on the grounds that it wasn't discussed. From the looks of the number of people participating in this discussion you and I and one other person are the only ones who are concerned enough with this issue to discuss it here.  So, it's up to us to decide what to do.


 * Consider the following: "If we change it back to Santiago, Chile, would you agree to do a re-write of the article sufficient to make it clear to readers that what is said in the above-mentioned sections refers to Greater Santiago, and not Santiago, per se?

Otherwise, we leave the article titled as it is and work to eliminate the other confusing/conflicting issues in the article as it stands."


 * J A X HERE | T a l k 23:17, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

After giving this matter considerable thought, and having consulted the reports of the National Bureau of Statistics, doing Google searches, reviewing the more than 300 comunas in Chile, I conclude that the best title for this article is "Santiago, Chile".

That being said, the article is still in need of considerable work to clearly explain to readers what are, and what is the relationship between the various terms and divisions that carry the name "Santiago"

We need to define (where it hasn't been done) and describe the relationship beween:
 * Metropolitan Region of Santiago
 * Province of Santiago
 * Comuna of Santiago
 * Municipality of Santiago
 * City of Santiago
 * Greater Santiago
 * Santiago Centro
 * Metropolis of Santiago
 * Santiago de Chile
 * and any other terms which might be mis-understood or mis-used if they are not clarified.

If someone doesn't beat me to it, I'll make the change together with the corresponding redirects and perhaps some disambiguation page(s), in the next few days.

I'd hope that Jepinos, would be willing to pitch in to do some of this, I will do some from time to time, and I'd hope that other users too will give some attention to these specific needs so that this article about Santiago can stand out as one of the top articles in Wikipedia about great cities. What do you say? J A X HERE | T a l k 17:27, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

External link Refuge of Mercy
Does someone know this organization? Jespinos 17:55, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Twin Cities
Who erased the list I made about the official twin cities of Santiago?? If you visit the articles of other cities, all of them have a list of twin cities. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.119.250.45 (talk) 17 May 2007


 * I've restored the list for now. --Scott Davis Talk 11:33, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

University List
I live in Santiago de Chile, and I work in the faculty of education at one of the "private" universities. In fact, all the universities in Chile are private, only some are not-for-profit. Tuition at a more traditional university, such as: Universidad de Chile, is exactly the same as at a "private" university.

The Chilean government allows private education at all levels. At the university level, this does not necessarily mean the quality is lower or poorer. Some "private" universities only offer a few programs, while more established institutions offer a wider range of degree programs.

Don't think for a minute that the level of university education is a joke, because it's not. Many of the degree programs are between 5-7 years, and in many cases a graduate here has the equivalent of a Masters degree at most North American Universities. Many of my private clients have graduated with MBAs from institutions such as: Harvard, Stanford, and the University of Chicago. Did they had difficulty with the language? Yes, at first. Did they have difficulty with the workload or the expectations? No! Many found it easier than studying in Chile.

In conclusion, the University list should remain as it is, with all the institutions listed. Nicholas GunnThewayofthegunn 19:37, 6 June 2007 (UTC)


 * There are a number of universities in Chile that are owned by the State, thus they are not private. They are public but are not free, just like private universities (and, yes, that is sad). And, by the way, by law, all higher education institutions are not-for-profit. Of course they break that law all the time. ☆ CieloEstrellado 06:09, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Language?
As per the standard for country articles, the national language needs to be added (to the fact box?).

Largest city
The Chile article says Santiago is the largest city. This article implies it's only the largest metro area; which is it? --Golbez 22:39, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
 * As a metropolitan area, Santiago is the largest. The problem is that there isn't an official definition of "city" in Chile. If you count separated by the communes, Puente Alto is the largest (with more than 670,000) but it's part of the Greater Santiago; the second largest, Maipú is also part of the metro area of Santiago. --B1mbo 05:03, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
 * There *is* an official definition of city in Chile. It is defined by INE. See List of cities in Chile for info. ☆ CieloEstrellado 05:59, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Main Santiago Skyline picture in the infobox removed!
Guys, who decided to remove the image of Sanhattan(santiago's Skyline). Was it a copyrighted image?EdwinCasadoBaez 15:46, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

an admin deleted the image (no license) I'll replace it temporary with another one. Feel free to exchange with a more appropriate one if you have.-- Stan talk 22:32, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

This Should be Two Articles: Santiago and Greater Santiago
This article should be split in two. It wrongly handles 2 separate geographic entities, which should simply refer to one another. This article is on the commune (municipality or city) of Santiago, which is one of the 32 municipalities in the Province of Santiage (which rightly has a separate article). The article also covers Greater Santiago, which is a generally accepted geography, but not any sort of an official jurisdiction, which includes all of the municipalities of Santiago province and 5 of neighboring provinces. Greater Santiago is a metropolitan area. Wendell Cox demographia2@earthlink.net

Two Panorama views
The panorama view is beatiful but to insert two (night and day) is just too much. There is also no appropriate space for it. Its inappropriate in the climate section and the the one its in now. -- Stan talk 03:04, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Sister cities
can someone add the sister cities of Santiago?, you can find them in the same article in the spanish section. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.8.107.66 (talk) 00:59, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Hi everyone, I'm moving Paris from "sister city" to partner city. Paris only has one sister city, which is Rome (check the article for Paris) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 146.151.113.98 (talk) 19:59, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

History of Santiago
In this section, the XXIth century part is missing. I think that some recent history of santiago is nedeed. (1990-present). --Tommy The Wise (talk) 15:41, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

XIX Century

 * The Writings in the history section of Santiago are so badly written. It seems like the person who wrote it is not a native english speaker. There is a tremendous amount of mistakes in the writing, words that dont make sense, etc. Anyone that knows better about the topic, as i bearly know anything about chile, please help out.EdwinCasadoBaez (talk) 17:27, 6 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I agree. the history section was poorly translated. I did some clean-up but the History section still needs a lot of work.
 * Likeminas (talk) 16:21, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I've had a clean up of the public transport section, but agreed its clear the author wasn't a native English speaker. Eraserhead1 (talk) 13:28, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

This articule is crap
I think you have a serious probem with this articule, you are mixing two very different things: the city of Santiago and the commune of Santiago.

Population and pictures implies you talk about the city Santiago of Santiago, but the map only remarks Santiago-commune.

When you try to reach an articule of Santiago-commune you are directed to Santiago-city, which are two very different things.

Is as different as if I look for NY State I´m refer to NYC.

Santiago the city and Santiago the commune, as has been said are two very different things which only in part coincide being the main one that they share the same name. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.246.79.246 (talk) 15:47, 29 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I agree, it seems, in this article, that the mayor of the entire city is zalaquett and so on.

there is a different article for the commune. please follow the guidelines in the spanish version of the article. --neolandes (talk) 16:09, 5 December 2009 (UTC)