Talk:Santiago Carrillo

Untitled
The article is very biased, i.e, it doesn't talk about the shooting of 5,000-10,000 persons in Paracuellos that Carillo ordered.
 * Now it talks about the incident in a POV way. The responsability of Carrillo in that incident is not proven.
 * There simply is not enough evidence in the the page to support that Carrillo did order the execution, so this shouldn't be stated as fact. A NPOV version of the article should mention the strong existent controversy on this topic, not just state one of the theories. Diego Moya 14:55, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

IS NOT PROVEN. but his enemy, monorchid dictator Franco, killed nearly one million inhabitants of the Spanish Republic, which had democracy, and established 40 years of misery and Nazism against freedom. Do not be fooled by those who want another war in europe
 * Hi, (sorry for my english): The responsability of Carrillo in that incident IS NOT PROVEN.
 * But the extreme right or Far-right TV media (most of media coverage in Spain except laSexta, which is THE ONLY on the left) they are making serious insults, like calling one fox, pig and slut, to a health minister of socialist party of spain from former government.
 * Public TV is in danger too. Fired workers who are left, and hire wife of culture minister for a TV show about politics, as a Nazi dictatorship TV (NO-DO). Except laSexta tv, which is THE ONLY on the left.
 * PLEASE HELP, Remember, if they (Dangerous Far-right media: the most of spanish media) are able to make one of the exiles of war are considered murderers, and make the murderer dictator Franco, a friend of Hitler, is regarded as a good person, the future of Europe is in danger again.
 * Resources:

The Socialists in Madrid demanding the cessation of right-wing journalist Xavier Horcajo for his attacks on homosexuals http://www.publico.es/televisionygente/360924/el-psm-exige-a-aguirre-que-deje-de-financiar-a-intereconomia Do not be fooled by those who want another war in europe. Now, I can not see any independent TV in Spain (Berlusconi bought the Spanish CNN+ and has closed, and now left laSexta is in danger, Far-Right wing "La Razón" wants to buy), I am learning English with the BBC (I think is the best TV in the world)
 * extreme right conquer spanish tv http://www.elpais.com/articulo/sociedad/ultras/conquistan/TDT/elpepusoc/20100222elpepisoc_4/Tes
 * Jordi González against far right media http://www.intereconomia.com/video/otro-gallo-cantaria/jordi-gonzalez-ataca-intereconomia-video-20110215
 * Sardá against far right media http://www.libertaddigital.com/sociedad/2011-04-16/sarda-contra-la-extrema-derecha-mediatica-intereconomia-1276420717/
 * journalists' association considers the manifestations of far-right media violate professional ethics http://www.apmadrid.es/noticias/generales/el-consejo-de-informacion-de-cataluna-considera-que-las-manifestaciones-de-garcia-serrano-en-qel-gato-al-aguaq-vulneran-la-etica-profesional?Itemid=209
 * The Socialist Party demands Madrid president to "stop funding" to the right-wing media.
 * (Former socialist vice-president) You go against me, trying to fish the ministry with changes for tonight shine, for TV networks extreme right, criticizing the police. http://www.congreso.es/public_oficiales/L9/CONG/DS/PL/PL_221.PDF#page=8

Possible factual inaccuracy
The article states that: "During the Spanish Civil War he led the Communist forces in Madrid" I believe some sources here are necessary. I doubt that a 24-years-old boy were in charge of all the Communists in Madrid. MJGR 10:45, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Well he did certainly hold some commanding position. He was the leader of JSU, one of the fighting organizations. But the sentence certainly needs rewriting. --Soman 13:25, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
 * In fact, the JSU was just one the Leftish Force Parties, even more, the JSU was SOCIALLIST, and not communist properly. Madrid was definitively a communist city more than sociallist during the war, so the idea of Carrillo leading people over the Republican Army and the Major is quite shocking to me. Erein 19:40 29 August 2006
 * You are aware that JSU functioned as the youth wing of PCE? --Soman 08:37, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
 * JSU was the merger of the youth wings of PSOE known as FJS and of PCE knwon as UJC, Carillo himself was the leader of FJS. It defined it self as a nonpartisan organisation with fraternal ties to both PSOE and PCE. Despite there was a pro-communista majority.
 * Not at all! the JSU was an independent institution, yes. But they belonged to PSOE as youth organisation. It's quite common in Spain, in fact the Partido Popular uses the same relationship structure with its youth wing, Nuevas Generaciones nowadays.

As for their links to the Communist Party, they did existed but they were more social ties than political _as a matter of fact, most of pre-war conflict were determined by communist-socialist conflicts.--Erein 16:11, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

POV wording
The article says that: "Carrillo enforced the party's position among the working class and intellectual groups". In my opinion, the wording of this sentence looks too pro-Carrillo as sources and data supporting it are not present. MJGR 10:52, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Moreover it misinterprets 'fortalezer' as 'enforce'. The influence of the party certainly grew during Carrillo, but whether this should be attributed to his persona is debatable. --Soman 13:26, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Launch of Eurocommunism
The article states in this sentence: "Together with Communist comrades Georges Marchais of France and Enrico Berlinguer of Italy, he launched the Eurocommunist movement in a meeting held in Madrid in March 2, 1977" that Eurocommunism was started that day but I believed that's not the case. Eurocommunism existed long before. Can somebody solve this doubt providing sources? MJGR 10:55, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Bias
Paracuellos is quoted as:

"(the biggest mass massacre of the Spanish Civil War)"

A discusion about who killed more and which massacre was bigger (Badajoz versus Paracuellos, etc) during the war could be endless. I will substitute for a more accurate:

"(the biggest massacre performed by the Republicans during the Spanish Civil War)"

Anyway I am open to discussion. I have included several references on the issue.Junjan 23:28, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Junjan 15:50, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I'd suggest "performed in a Republican sector", as it is proved (i.e. Paul Preston, A. Beevor) that Paracuellos massacre wasn't perpetrated by soldiers but by civilians, and they acted outlaw _out Republican laws, even.

--Erein 12:34, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:PCElogo.PNG
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Biased language
The article uses the term 'liberator' in two instances to define the fascist forces.

'at the time under heavy liberator bombardment.'

and

'the death of long-time anticomunist Spanish liberator Francisco Franco'

Franco was a fascist dictator who ruled Spain for 40 years after a three year long civil war started by him with a coup-de-etat. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.35.198.89 (talk) 20:31, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Please provide rationale for deleting a sourced fact
Randroide (talk) 11:10, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Poor and crazy reference from a fascist book ¿is it relevant????
Poor and crazy reference: "Carrillo miente, 156 documentos contra 103 falsedades" (from fascist spanish "editorial fénix" -not the mexican one-) This would be the Spanish equivalent of a book called "gandhi was an assassin".

Do not be fooled by those who want another war in europe