Talk:Saponification

Compare: Biodiesel
My apologies, but my O-chem skills are nil

There *appears* to be a conflict between this page and the biodiesel page. The biodiesel suggests that adding alkali to triglycerides produces diesel, the saponification suggests that it produces soap. Now I'm not a professional organic chemist or anything, but I'm pretty sure that soap (even SoftSoap) is not usable as biodiesel, nor vice versa. Perhaps someone knowledgeable could tweak one section or the other, or produce a soap-vs-biodiesel or triglycerides-plus-alkali section? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Riventree (talk • contribs) 20:01, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

Doh, sorry about not signing the previous bit. re-re-reading the two sections seems to show that in one case (soap) it's triglycerides + water + alkali, and the other (biodiesel) it's triglycerides + alkali. But it would still be worth having a knowledgeable person make a short clear declaration.

Riventree —Preceding undated comment added 20:12, 8 March 2011 (UTC).

150.131.96.143 (talk) 02:54, 23 March 2011 (UTC) Terribly sorry if this is in the wrong place, but I suggest a rewrite of the saponification reaction description. It's fairly vague at points and remains entrenched in jargon.

Removed soapy goodness
Water that contains calcium ions, Ca2+, and magnesium ions, Mg2+, is said to be hard water. These ions are leached from ground water flowing over rock formations containing limestone and other minerals. Hard water interferes with the cleaning action of soaps.

When soap is added to hard water, insoluble compounds form which appear as sticky scum. This scum leaves a deposit on clothes, skin, and hair.

When boiled, hard water leaves a deposit of calcium carbonate, CaCO3. This scale builds up in tea kettles and inside hot water heaters.

Detergents have replaced soap for many cleaning jobs around the home.

The development of synthetic detergents by chemists was a great advantage for people with relatively hard tap water in their homes

Oil paints
I think it may be beneficial to move the oil paint section to its own article. That way it would be possible to expand on the research being done in this specific area without overwhelming this general article. Acwageman (talk) 19:07, 16 January 2018 (UTC)

Merge proposal
The proposal is to merge alkaline hydrolysis into Saponification. As applied to conventional organic esters, they are the same thing. Saponification is presently slanted toward base hydrolysis of fats to give soaps, which is a traditional but insufficient definition. To quote from March's organic textbook: "Ester hydrolysis is usually catalyzed by acids or bases ... When bases catalyze the reaction, the attacking species is the more powerful nucleophile  OH-. This reaction is called saponification and gives the salt of the acid."

Provisos: --Smokefoot (talk) 23:28, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Now, the main catch with this merger is that lots of stuff can be hydrolyzed aside from carboxylic acid esters. But presently alkaline hydrolysis seems only to discuss saponification.
 * We could broaden out alkaline hydrolysis, but such jargon seems uncommon in other parts of chemistry. So, I dont know how we fill it in.
 * We have SN1CB mechanism, which is very specific and narrow reaction of metal ammine complexes.
 * Hydrolysis devotes a section to saponification.
 * Comment I think it's better to keep them separate, and expand the alkaline hydrolysis article with examples of basic hydrolysis of other carboxylic acid derivatives, particularly amides and nitriles. We also have both protonolysis and acid hydrolysis, which are distinct topics, but need to better differentiated from each other. Mdewman6 (talk) 20:45, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Closing, given the uncontested objection with no support and stale discussion. Klbrain (talk) 13:38, 28 January 2024 (UTC)