Talk:Sara Ramirez

"Official Site" links to Trojan Horse Attack Activity
I submitted it for review with the wiki editors. If anyone has any knowledge of her site, please contribute: WT:WPSPAM

Aruhnka (talk) 14:14, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

"Calliope"
It's absolutely beautiful, but I strongly suspect we got it from TV.com and they got it from us; the Sara Ramirez and ABC/GA sites do not list this first name; can we get a cite here? --Baylink 02:32, 27 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Hearing nothing, I'm taking it out. Someone please source it; I really want it to be true.  :-) --Baylink 23:02, 10 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I want it to be true too! It's a WONDERFUL name. Of note, it's Dr. Calliope "Callie" Torres in both the Grey's Anatomy page and the List of characters from Grey's Anatomy page, with no citations that I can find on either. But I suppose it's not good enough to use an un-cited source as a source, huh? Meh. Please be Calliope. Weirdoactor 22:11, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Is it of any value that during episodes, the character's white doctor's smock is clearly and frequently seen embroidered with the words "Calliope Torres, M. D."? BusterD 01:10, 20 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I'll see if I can get a screen capture as proof. If so, I'm adding it back in.Weirdoactor 02:10, 20 October 2006 (UTC)


 * The reason I mention is that tonight's episode answered the question for me, and I follow this discussion. BusterD 03:50, 20 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Added! Weirdoactor 12:51, 20 October 2006 (UTC)


 * BTW, ditto on how lovely the name sounds (esp. when worn by Sara). We really need a nice image for the article. Now if the ABC/Disney folks will let the pretty lady SING... BusterD 20:49, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

To be clear: perhaps it's clearly embroidered there *if you have HDTV*; we don't. A full hour of chasing through episodes just now confirms it, at 43:42(/1:00:00) in 2x27, "Damage Case"; George and Callie walk down a hall, while Callie bitches about Meredith asking about Doc the dog's leg cancer. --Baylink 02:45, 20 November 2006 (UTC)


 * For those keeping score, her name *finally* made the sound track, when it was a plot point in 3x13, Wishin and Hopin. --Baylink 04:49, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Well, I'm new to this, but I know that on this week's rerun, George refers to her as Calliope Iphegenia Torres. Does that count, or does it need to be in print somewhere?

Birthyear
Was Sara born in 1975 or 1976? Hotwine8 03:40, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Photo
We need a legal/free use photo of her. Any ideas? Maybe something from her official site? Weirdoactor 18:03, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I posted a request for photo on her website, offering options for delivery, but encouraging her webmaster to upload the image directly to commons with appropriate CC licensing. I'm not expecting anything fast, but I suspect we could get a mid-to-low res image with permission, and that would be best for wp and Sara. BusterD 18:19, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Great, Buster! Thanks! Weirdoactor 18:56, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the . Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

PAGE MOVED per discussion below. -GTBacchus(talk) 22:26, 6 February 2007 (UTC) Sara Ramírez → Sara Ramirez — Clearly the wrong name under Wikipedia naming conventions. The editors of this article got into a big squabble about not having proper sourcing for the fact that a character she plays known as "Callie" had the full name "Calliope", insisting on reliable sources, but there are absolutely no sources, never have been, reliable or otherwise, for this "Sara Ramírez" spelling. She is clearly not only best known in English, but almost always known in English as "Sara Ramirez". She is known as "Sara Ramirez" on her own web site cited in the article. She is known as "Sara Ramirez" in all four other sources cited in the article, the Internet Movie Database, the Internet Broadway Database, the TV.com site, and the Yahoo! Movies site. There is "credited as" alternatives listed in the IMDB listing, something routinely done there. As it stands now, there is nothing to even indicate any legitimacy in including the Ramírez as a variant spelling in the intro, let alone for using it in the rest of the text or for it occupying the one slot available for the article's name. Gene Nygaard 03:18, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Survey

 * Add  # Support   or   # Oppose   on a new line in the appropriate section followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion using ~ .  Please remember that this survey is not a vote, and please provide an explanation for your recommendation.

Survey - in support of the move

 * 1) Support: My knee would jerk in favor of the move... were it not that I hear all her cow-orkers pronounce her first name in a *decidedly* uncommon way.  Further investigation seems warranted: *lots* of USAdian sources drop diacriticals, even in proper names.  --Baylink 04:52, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
 * 2) Support: I support the move, too. She doesn't have the accent in the Grey's credits or in TV Guide or anything. I just don't think it is necessary. Nikki311 07:59, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
 * 3) Support per nomination. —  AjaxSmack     03:48, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
 * 4) Support move, even if there is any evidence of third-party use of the diacritic before the end of this discussion. The most relevant sources have already been noted. Gene may be brusque but it doesn't invalidate his request. Dekimasu が... 12:09, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Survey - in opposition to the move

 * 1) Oppose diacritics is a part of today's world.  ≈Tulkolahten≈ ≈talk≈ 11:07, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Sure they are; they just aren't part of this person's name. Gene Nygaard 22:10, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Note the discussion above about needing sources for the full name of a character she played, the mention in the nomination that there is not and never has been any citation to any reliable source for that spelling, and the fact that User:Tulkolahten has been posting improper warnings on my talk page and otherwise following me around to try to get into arguments. He is doing so again here, jerely stating his opposition out of spite for me, the nominator.  Gene Nygaard 22:13, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Discussion

 * Add any additional comments:
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Page Move
Last night, I moved the page back from Sara Ramírez to Sara Ramirez for the reasons outlined in the section above as those reasons are still valid five and a half years later. It seems the page was indeed moved after this discussion, but was moved back six months later and no one noticed. IMO, nothing has changed to invalidate the original consensus. Jauerbackdude?/dude. 13:41, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 21:45, 17 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Sara Ramirez6 (cropped).jpg
 * Sara Ramírez3.jpg

They???
I sometimes use "they" as a way of avoiding gender specification. The lead is peppered with "they"s, I don't know why. Is she a transexual? Doesn't like being called "she"? I can't find any reason to not use "she", so I'll make a few edits as billyshiverstick and fix this. Correct if you need to, but explain on the talk page please, if you do. 2605:8D80:4C0:19C1:3C84:A1E2:3057:F3AD (talk) 04:04, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Ramirez recently came out as gender non-binary and has stated a preference for they or she pronouns. No opinion on which should be used but that is why editors have been using they. Rab V (talk) 06:20, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
 * If she stated that the she prefers "she/they pronouns", why are the editor forcing for "they"? I know it's a sensible issue, but this sounds like pressing on terms. --62.11.252.219 (talk) 10:13, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

She/They pronouns
"This biographical article uses the pronouns they/them."

Sorry, what? Ramirez stated she's non-binary and uses the pronouns she/they. Why is the article edited as if she only uses they/them pronouns? 210.186.213.90 (talk) 02:18, 14 June 2021 (UTC)
 * I'm confused. Assuming singular "they", then you have (for instance) "they went to their house and someone met them", I think? That is consistent, and fine. But the particular words "she" and "they" fulfill the same function, I think, so how does "she/they" work? Are we mixing up she/they type terms ("She went to their house and someone met them") or ("She went to her house and lay on her bed. Later, they got up and made themselves breakfast")? How -- what is the rule? The writer's personal prediliction, or follow first use in the article, or sprinkle in some of each to achieve a rough balance. or what? Is there a Wikipedia style guide page for this?


 * If there isn't, it may be that it our rule to consistently use "they/them". If I don't know what is meant by "she/they" than a lot of other editors also won't I suppose, and if there's not style guide here about it maybe we should stay away from it? Herostratus (talk) 20:34, 25 June 2021 (UTC)
 * We should use preferred pronouns consistently. If we have a referenced statement from the subject that they accept "she" or "they", we should consistently use one of them. Having multiple ones throughout the article is not helpful to the reader - who is the target of what we all do. This should not be a forum for advocacy. Ifnord (talk) 21:25, 21 December 2021 (UTC)

This disagreement on preference of they/them pronouns has led to page protection today
This is a biography of a living person, so doing no harm to the biographical subject is something which might well concern us. However, merely following the subject's wishes in a BLP is not normally the preferred strategy. Manual of Style/Gender identity tells us how wikipedians' consensus on this issue has evolved to this time to be sensitive to subject preference on this issue of pronouns. FTR I have been a minor contributor on this page since 2006, when the subject's gender identity was not much of an issue. This has clearly changed. Over time I have seen claims the subject prefers she/they pronouns; I see claims the subject prefers they/them pronouns. I don't know much about the issue myself. I do see a lot of unnecessary back and forth in pagespace. Not a good sign on a GA. Today we saw three weeks of semi-protection applied; I'm wondering if this "quiet" is an opportunity to hash these matters out, establish a clear consensus, and develop a long-term strategy to avoid this noise in the future, whether a form of protection, a reader-hidden message, improved talk-page instruction. I'm not sure the well-intended LGBT+ talk notice above has clarified anything to the passing reader who thinks the pronoun style looks odd. (I'm a long-time contributor and I think it reads terribly, almost begging "anyone can edit" to do so.) Anyone interested in stabilizing this? BusterD (talk) 21:46, 10 January 2022 (UTC)


 * Thanks for opening up the discussion, . Unfortunately, this kind of pronoun warring is fairly common on articles about trans and non-binary people. I am not sure what interventions, short of protection, would suffice to stem the tide. For the record, I'm the one that requested temporary semi-protection. Firefangledfeathers 22:21, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I have again semi-protected the page, this time for a month. Since this is NOT a highly edited page, perhaps we should consider pending changes... BusterD (talk) 10:24, 26 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks! I think PC is a great idea, as we did get some productive IP edits during the interregnum. If you make it so, could you include a bit about pronoun changes in the protection summary for PC reviewers to see? Firefangledfeathers (talk | contribs) 13:42, 26 February 2022 (UTC)

Updated Photo
Can someone update the main photo to a more current one? There are many pictures out now of them in their undercut and new fashion style and I think it would be more respectful to showcase that rather than one from 2008.164.47.76.50 (talk) 21:05, 17 January 2022 (UTC)kodi

Actor/Actress
This article has long described Ramirez as an "actor". Recently editors have been changing this to "actress", without explaining why. As far as I'm aware, Ramirez has not expressed a preference. Generally, use of gender-neutral terms for non-binary people is standard. At the very least, "actor" is not wrong, and I wish proponents of "actress" would follow WP:BRD rather than reverting without explanation. Any thoughts on which to use, and why? Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 13:14, 7 June 2024 (UTC)


 * I agree with you completely. They're non-binary and use they/them pronouns, and "actor" is a gender neutral term. I don't see any reason to say "actress" at all. "Actor" is not wrong. It's not like we're saying "male actor", which would be wrong. Gottagotospace (talk) 19:56, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
 * There is, however, a reason to not say "actress": according to Shari Linden in the Los Angeles Times, the term "carries an unnecessarily frilly air, suggesting a subsidiary relationship to man's work." Skywatcher68 (talk) 19:41, 9 June 2024 (UTC)