Talk:Sarah Lawrence (educator)

Others called "Miss Lawrence"
The Miss Lawrence encountered by Maria Edgeworth in 1813, while visiting Joseph Strutt in Derby, was a good friend of Bessy Moore, wife of Tom Moore. Bessy was an Irish actress, name before marriage Dyke. This really is unlikely to be Sarah Lawrence or one of her sisters. Though given the Irish connections, it can't be entirely ruled out.


 * I don't know how relevant this may be. But in 1804 Tom Moore was visiting Newark, New Jersey and met some Ogdens who were cousins of Abraham Ogden in the article (first cousins of Abraham who were grandchildren of Col. Josiah Ogden (died 1763). There were also some Lawrence sisters there. Charles Matthews (talk) 13:35, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

The "Miss Lawrence" who wrote history and historical tales, contributing to Hood's Magazine, was Hannah Lawrance. Charles Matthews (talk) 10:30, 12 November 2021 (UTC)

Emma Willard, on her 1830 trip to Europe, came to London and met Maria Edgeworth. Among the company there were "two Misses Lawrence, of dignified manners". Those probably were from the Lawrence sisters. Charles Matthews (talk) 06:37, 13 November 2021 (UTC)

There is a sighting of (presumably) the Lawrence sisters on their way to Paris in 1820. It is from the memoirs of Thomas Fletcher (died 1850), business partner of Joseph Brooks Yates, visiting London to see the slave-owner Kean Osborn. His nephew John Fletcher, en route to Switzerland, shared a coach from London to Dover, and then to Paris with the "Misses Lawrence". This is odd company. But Thomas Fletcher died at Gateacre, so there may well have been a social connection. Charles Matthews (talk) 07:23, 13 November 2021 (UTC)


 * There is indeed a connection, via the Cromptons: Peter Crompton's son Charles married Fletcher's daughter Caroline. This is surely enough to assume John Fletcher had been asked to escort the sisters. Charles Matthews (talk) 12:37, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

The "Misses Lawrence" involved in the production of the Ladies' Carpet for the Great Exhibition of 1851? Organiser Francis Fuller. Charles Matthews (talk) 07:37, 13 November 2021 (UTC)

Graves
It has been stated that Robert Perceval Graves in writing about William Rowan Hamilton erred in identifications of the Lawrence sisters. It turns out that that might not be the case. To avoid issues with WP:SYNTH I'm putting discussion here, and not as argumentative material in the article.

I think there is a consensus that the outcome of Hamilton meeting the sisters was that he started a correspondence with Arabella; and that Sarah in due course contacted Coleridge for him.

The language used by Graves about the "elder" sister might be seen to imply that he thought Sarah was the correspondent. But on the hypothesis that the sisters who went to Paris were Arabella and Harriet from the younger sisters, there isn't that issue.

The hypothesis is plausible on internal evidence about Maria Edgeworth and the Paris visit to a Lancastrian system school. Arabella, for example, shared with Lady Byron an interest in "educating the poor". So such a visit would fit her outlook; and indeed the offer of a governess position in the Orleans family would be odd as an offer to Sarah?

Under the content guidelines, the hypothesis about the Paris visitors should not be imposed on the article as a deduction. Some further confirmation is needed. Charles Matthews (talk) 11:19, 13 November 2021 (UTC)

Old Meeting House, Birmingham
It seems likely that the Nathaniel Lawrence appointed a churchwarden at the Meeting House in 1785, with George Timmins, was Sarah's father; because her brother Nathaniel was baptised there in 1782. There are other mentions of a Nathaniel Lawrence at the time; the one at St Martin's Church is an unlikely match. So the prison commissioner and person associated with the Birmingham Library don't have to be this one. Charles Matthews (talk) 09:50, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

The memorial plaque (9) reproduced here makes that identification highly likely: because the death dates of Nathaniel and Mary Lawrence are as expected. And the one below (11), mentioning Sarah with death date, is conclusive. Charles Matthews (talk) 10:06, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

So this plaque complements the one above. Referring to WikiTree:


 * Elizabeth (Basnett) Lawrence] would be Sarah's paternal grandmother
 * Thomas Lawrence (abt. 1722 - 1802) her grandfather
 * Nathaniel Lawrence (abt. 1749 - 1803) her father
 * Mary (Johnson) Lawrence (abt. 1755 - 1804)

can be identified. Nathaniel Basnett died 1777 - appears to be the common spelling - could be one of a number of people. There is a Liverpool merchant, and given that Sarah's brother was a Liverpool merchant, that seems a good bet. Charles Matthews (talk) 11:58, 16 November 2021 (UTC)