Talk:Saratoga Springs, New York/Archives/2012

Name Origins
I dont think this is right:

The name reflects the presence of mineral springs in the area. While the word "Saratoga" is known to be a corruption of a Native American Iroquois name Se-rach-to-que, meaning 'floating scum upon the water.'

Compare to saratoga:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saratoga,_New_York

Saratoga is a corruption of an Indian word from the Mohawk language. It was the name of Indian hunting grounds located along both sides of the Hudson River where in the Indian Tongue 'Se-rach-ta-gue' meant 'the hillside country of the quiet river.' — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.14.28.91 (talk) 01:13, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

Untitled
Should we have a link to the Battle of Saratoga? It's a fairly notable event taking place in Saratoga.

The Battle of Saratoga actually took place about 15 miles outside the city limits in Stillwater. PeterPan23 23:10, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

There should definitely be a link to the Battle of Saratoga! The battlegrounds are an important part of Saratoga City and County tourism; visitors to Saratoga Springs often want more information about the Battle. Yes, please include a link! And--by-the-way: kudos to whomever wrote this page on Saratoga Springs. Beautifully done, no detail omitted. It's terrific!LadyHorseWriter 09:05, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Does anyone else here think that a link to more info on the natural mineral springs here? A couple are still operational, and they're why the area was settled in the first place. Travel4Fun 16:30, 12 November 2006 (UTC)Travel4Fun


 * We don't need the link, but if you'd like to add the information itself that'd be welcome. -Will Beback 20:59, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

I really don't feel that the Notable list should be alphabetized. There's no way that some session drummer for a couple of minor bands should be on top, and David Hyde Pierce buried in the middle. Either we should arrange the list in some rough order of actual prominence, or impose some kind of cutoff to ensure that everyone on the list actually has some broad cultural significance. . . and seriously, several of them don't. Which is fine if they're at the bottom of the list, but not if they're burying the really prominent people.

-How some people get on the list is pretty ridiculous!!! There are too many unknowns as "notables" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.153.20.92 (talk) 20:43, 6 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Why is someone, both on this page and on the Capital Region page, insisting on changing Saratoga Spring's population! The very reference cited on the page is for the census bureau's website, and IT shows that the 26,000 number to be the correct one. Please stop vandalising.  And please sign up instead of having just an ip address.  Or at least have a discussion on the discussion page on why you believe your numbers to be correct and the census to be wrong.  You continually put in wrong numbers to inflate Saratoga Springs, and on the Capital Region page you changed Colonie (town) pop. in half, why?!  Probably to make it smaller than Saratoga Springs.  I understand your pride in your community, but this is an encyclopedia.  Please stop this stupid vandalism!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Camelbinky (talk • contribs) 16:27, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Returned notable people section
Not having citations is not alone a reason to remove info, especially for an article below GA class. The very definition of the lower classes of rankings like stub, start, C, and B include that they NEED more citations, not all articles MUST have citations for every bit of info. Some of the info is very well known (such as David Hyde Pierce growing up there), and has been talked about here in the discussion page as fact by many editors. If the article on the person mentions the person having been born or lived in Saratoga Springs that is enough FOR NOW, but should then be used as a basis for looking for a real citation. Removing the entire section only keeps others from knowing what citations are needed and what needs to be researched. By having those names there and the citations needed template others now know to look it up and cite it, it took me less than 3 seconds to find a citation for David Hyde Pierce. Its not like he hides his association, even during the height of his fame I myself saw him in Staples (back when it was in a building across from the old Pyramid Mall on Route 50 in Wilton, thats how long ago it was)! If the an article on the person here in wikipedia does not mention a person has any association with the city then it should be removed. See wp:common sense and the new wikiproject common sense that promotes its use in wikipedia, and wp:ignore all rules.Camelbinky (talk) 20:48, 2 May 2009 (UTC)


 * "The burden of evidence lies with the editor who adds or restores material. All quotations and any material challenged or likely to be challenged must be attributed to a reliable, published source using an inline citation." --from WP:BURDEN. I look forward to your citations. --JBC3 (talk) 21:00, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Please use common sense and I am invoking "ignore all rules" in this instance. Are you seriously challenging EVERY ONE of those people or just using the "likely to be challenged" wording for your peresonal belief that every single line and info in an article should be cited? Then go to EVERY SINGLE ARTICLE in wikipedia and removed every single piece of info that is not cited. See how long it takes to be labelled a vandal for doing that. We couldnt have C or start class articles if every fact had to be cited right away. Please use common sense! Allow others to take their time in looking up the info, the articles on those people mention they are from Saratoga Springs, its enough for now. Please be reasonable. To simply say "I challenge it" simply because it is not cited and not because you truly TRULY believe it to be false is not good faith and is gaming the rules, so I would like you to state for each of those people WHY you believe it is FALSE and you are challenging it if you are going to remove their names.Camelbinky (talk) 21:08, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Also, this from citing sources:

If an article has no references, and you are unable to find them yourself, you can tag the article with the template, so long as the article is not nonsensical or a biography of a living person, in which case request admin assistance. If a particular claim in an article lacks citation and is doubtful, consider placing after the sentence or removing it. This will add a citation needed label.

Consider the following in deciding which action to take:

If a claim is doubtful but not harmful to the whole article or to Wikipedia, use the tag, but remember to go back and remove the claim if no source is produced within a reasonable time. If a claim is doubtful and harmful, you should remove it from the article; you may want to move it to the talk page and ask for a source, unless you regard it as very harmful or absurd, in which case it should not be posted to a talk page either. Use your common sense.
 * Unless you can prove that the info is both doubtful and harmful, please leave the info. There is no problem with having uncited info in a C class article as long as it is not false. Please note the "Use your common sense" sentence at the end of the paragraph on removing info. It doesnt say "apply the rules strictly and ignore commonsense", and also note the various mentionings of "doubtful", if it is unsourced but NOT DOUTBTFUL, as most of that info is not doubtful seeing as how other people have put the info in articles on the people themselves, then there is no challenge. You cant just go around saying "I challenge it" just because you want a citation for it. If the Queen of England was on the list, ok then remove that because that would be doubtful.Camelbinky (talk) 21:15, 2 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Thank you for presenting policy supporting your position. Funny, I was invoking the Ignore all rules too. It took you 3 seconds to find a citation for one entry. It should be reasonable then to give you another 93 seconds to find the other 31 citation needed. There has been a request for additional citations on this section since April 8th, which gave editors 2 million seconds to add citations. And since all of the names were added before that time, they have been around even longer. Still, in accordance with WP:PRESERVE, I will leave the uncited entries there, as I don't care to challenge them. I still hope you will be adding citations to them, in accordance with WP:BURDEN. --JBC3 (talk) 21:33, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you for understanding and working with me on that, and I apologize if I was abrupt or rude, I have been trying to work on that per your requests in other discussions. My personal belief is that before removing info it should be the burden of the person removing it to first take time to find a citation, but I understand I am in the minority on that. I will attempt to find citations for it, but I have more pressing time, if you want to make a subpage on the CD wikiproject for "citations needed" and put the most pressing urgent places you think a citation is needed and just start a long list, I (and maybe others as well) can get to them as time allows. That might be better for some articles that dont see alot of editing traffic and therefore can get the attention quicker for citations needed other than just being on a page not many people go to, there doesnt seem to be alot of editors contributing to Saratoga Springs lately.Camelbinky (talk) 21:40, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Hey, I'm new to actually editing Wikipedia so I'm not sure if this is the right place for the discussion but I wanted to say that as a native to this city I noted a few things about the "Saratogians" section. There is no evidence as far as i can find that Trey Anastasio of Phish is a Saratogian, in fact there is more evidence to the contrary. Also, Dottie Pepper and Kathleen Kauth are marked as MISSING: CONNECTION TO SARATOGA SPRINGS. I can't find any reliable sources proving they are native to Saratoga, but I'm very certain that is the case. Many people in Saratoga can vouche for knowing Dottie Pepper, and I know the mother of Kathleen Kauth is a teacher at Saratoga Springs High School. - James (talk) 16:14, 12 May 2010 (UTC)