Talk:Sardar

Untitled
In punjab, Sardar means a Landloard with good wealth and prosperous. Sardas term specially used in Jatts of Punjab. Now a days people call Sardar Ji to all person with Turban and Beard. It is not Sardar who has Turban and Beard. Any one can be Sikh but it doesn't means anyone can be Sardar. Sardar can only be used for Jatts.

Says who? All Sikhs are equal, Sardar is a noble title, a Singh should be noble by nature, hence can be called Sardar, take your self - important attitude elsewhere, no true Sikh would have such an arrogant attitude.

Please, gentlemen or ladies, a little civility. It would be pleasant if you would also sign your contributions (such as they are). Ratagonia 06:55, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

No provision for Sardar in Sikhism
In this article, it is written that "the word Sardar-ji refers to an adult male follower of Sikhism; for females, the suffix -ni is appended (pronounced Sardar-nee).", but let me make it clear that Sardar is just humans created (probably to consider themselves supreme from other sikhs, or by non-sikh people who want to fill ego in certain sikhs by calling them by such names, by the intention to actually deviate them from their religion.)

An adult/child male follower of sikhism, is Sikh (and his middle name or last name includes Singh)

An girl follower of sikhism, is Sikh-ni or Sikh-nee (and her middle name or last name includes Kaur)

A True sikh is that who follows his Gurus. And none of our Gurus have put sardar in front of there names, so how come today's sikhs are putting such names??? To be clear the names of our Sikh Gurus are:-

1. Guru Nanak Dev Ji

2. Guru Angad Dev Ji

3. Guru Amardas Ji

4. Guru Ramdas Ji

5. Guru Arjan Dev Ji

6. Guru HarGobind Ji

7. Guru HarRai Ji

8. Guru HarKrishan Ji

9. Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji

10. Guru Gobind Singh Ji

11. Guru Granth Sahib Ji (The Jyot(light) of all 10 Gurus and also called Immortal Guru)

Moreover, in Guru Granth Sahib, Sardar word is used nowhere.

So as you can clearly see, none of our Gurus is Sardar, so how come there followers be sardar. It's purely created by people for their self-willed purposes (Manmukhs).

Guru ka Daas

Mailmeharry2008 (talk)


 * Harry, what you have said may be true for Sikh spiritual purposes, but here the encyclopedia is not based on what is spiritually true; rather, it is based on what is written by reliable sources--including those uses of the word that may be improper according to pure Sikh theology. This article just describes how the word is used, not how it should be used. Steveozone (talk) 05:29, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

No article should describe what's being believed, it should describe what the truth is. It's true that it is being used in the context to refer Sikhs, but it is actually being spread out in the world. Sikhs around are being called as Sardars by many people, which hurts them internally but due to their polite nature, they never say a word to such people. So wikipedia should properly explain the truth about everything, rather than what's being just done, as people reading this follows the Article. And in today's date, i even found certain sikhs calling themselves as sardars, and giving reference to articles like this and believing themselves as doing right thing. That's why i took the initiative to explain what the truth is to the non-sikhs as well as to the sikhs, but you deleted my post.

Mailmeharry2008 (talk)


 * Actually, Harry, all articles here do in fact describe what is believed, and said, and not what the truth is (see WP:RS). I actually think I agree with you as a personal moral principle, but you need to understand that Wikipedia is not a bulletin board intended to determine and discover the truth despite what academic sources say; it is in fact an encyclopedia intended to state what those academic sources say, right or wrong.  You need to have reliable sources to cite, or, I am sorry to say, your contribution is going to be removed. Steveozone (talk) 06:23, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

I didn't find any academic sources saying such things, show me if there are, i will put my thoughts there as well to correct them, i don't want anybody to believe in this wrong belief. In India, Sardar word had it's origination from Daakus (Robbers of Valleys), and slowly as time spend, got changed to noble person, etc. but in modern times, no one knows how it spreaded in the Sikhs, apart from the fact that Nihang sometimes put Sardar in their names. And to make it further clear, Nihangs are not the only sikhs, most population of sikhs is of Sikhs (just sikhs or you can say general/normal sikhs), and those of Naamdharis. And i have already put the biggest proof by saying "Guru Granth Sahib, the hand written holy book by the Gurus:creators of Sikhism, nowhere mention us as Sardars, then who gave non-sikh people right to call us Sardars". And even if there were some people mentioned as Sardars, during times of Maharaja Ranjit Singh, they were actually not the people/names being referred, that was used for a post/title in the administration/rulership of Maharaja Ranjit Singh as today, we use Dr. Manmohan Singh. And in today's date such posts/titles/degrees are not awarded, so how could there be Sikhs as sardars today? None of the holy books including Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Dasam Granth, Nitnem Banis or even Rehatnama depicting Sikh Rehat Maryada (Code of Conduct) for all Sikhs, used word Sardar ever. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mailmeharry2008 (talk • contribs) 08:24, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Textual treatment of Sardar in the Sikh Faith
This WAS the text:


 * The word Sardar refers to an adult male follower of the Sikh faith. While addressing a Sikh Sardar, the suffix -ji is often added to denote respect, resulting in the word Sardarji. This term may convey several meanings, often associated with military authority, as the Sikh community has played an important role in the Indian Armed Forces. They were originally used as a title for Nihang who belong to the Sikh faith.

I am less interested in TALKING about this than in someone coming up with reasonable sources, THEN talking about it. Wikipedia does not put out the "truth", it puts out knowledge based on citations to reliable sources. Ratagonia (talk) 17:20, 26 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Allow me to clarify: The original statement also has no citations, so it is valid to remove it. Anything added, at this point, should be well-sourced. Ratagonia (talk) 17:24, 26 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks for allowing me to delete that text, i just wanted to remove that as it was spreading wrong rumors, and the truth is written above in my Talk "No provision for Sardar in Sikhism". mailmeharry2008 (talk) Harinder Singh 02:50, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Etymology
A short stroll through Wikipedia will find authoritative references to the more widely-accepted derivations of "sir" and "sire" from Latin "senex" and Russian Czar from Latin "Caesar." Neither of these is originally a title of nobility: "senior" means "older," and "Caesar" derives from the word for "cut."72.94.107.100 (talk) 12:36, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

The etymological rubbish in this article makes one's hair stand on end. Another good example showing the futility of attempting to create a truly informed reference tool based on "democratic" participation. 79.210.116.74 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 18:55, 8 April 2012 (UTC).

Actually Sardar has nothing to do with Sikhism, Jatts or otherwise nor is it of Indian origin. The term came to the Subcontinent from its western borders and was the given title for Muslim tribal chiefs and notables - this usage survives to this day both formally and informally. Furthermore, in Hazara region of Pakhtunkhwa and Azad Kashmir it is a title adopted by many tribes. As in architecture, symbolism and dress of the Sikhs it is among many other Muslim things adopted by the relatively new religious community including the turban - the turban was forbidden to the non-Muslim in Mughal India and the then rebellious groups of Sikhs used these Islamic symbols as a gesture of defiance and to declare equality of all in society. Moarrikh (talk) 11:43, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Can someone add Farsi, Urdu and Pashto script to the introduction in this article given these languages are the vehicle for the word coming into usage in South Asia.Moarrikh (talk) 11:53, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

['særdʒæ:r] looks incorrect
There is no ج [dʒ] in this word. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.107.90.200 (talk) 15:23, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

Sardar Muhammad Ibrahim Khan
Sardar Muhammad Ibrahim Khan was famous Kashmir Lawyer and Political figure from Poonch. We have thousand of Articles, Memos, Books in which it is clearly mentioned that his Name was Sardar Muhammad Ibrahim Khan but Wikipedia Reviewer are looking for Proof. A famous person of 1950s who was summoned by United Nations at New York is Looking for his title. Please Support for his title. As deceased person never tells his full name. I am very sad to know that Wikipedia reviewers despite of thousand articles on his name are not accepting it. It is my appeal to Wikipedia Community that please investigate from your side. Knowiunderstandit (talk) 09:05, 24 February 2020 (UTC)

Dear Kautilya, You can see this article of Wikipedia which shows that Sardar is not just a title, it is also name used by different communities in different regions. I am sad that A famous Kashmiri Lawyer and A political figure is unjustified in his Own Biography. Knowiunderstandit (talk) 09:15, 24 February 2020 (UTC)

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