Talk:Satyendra Nath Bose

Heisenberg‘s Uncertainty principal
In 1924, Bose could not make any auguement based on the "Heisenberg‘s Uncertainty principal" which came out after 1926. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kaifeng (talk • contribs) 03:23, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

Bengali script
Hello everyone. I wonder if we can show the name of Bose in Bengali script. I don't know much about including different fonts in Wikipedia articles, maybe someone else has some ideas here. Happy editing, Wile E. Heresiarch 15:56, 1 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Done.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tanzeel (talk • contribs)

Hi, In the biography section, the notes on Nobel prize being denied to Bose are a little to nationalistic without any foundation being offered. It will also be useful to base this page more on published sources than anecdotal information alone. —Preceding unsigned comment added by NARRAO (talk • contribs) 00:58, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

The coin flipping example
I may be completely mistaken and perhaps do not know much about probability, but the coin flipping anology given under the section, "The error that wasn't" seems to be incorrect. If two identical, fair coins are flipped, we will find that we get two heads for 25% of the throws, not one third of the throws as mentioned. We will also get a heads-tails combination for 50% of the throws and two tails for 25% of the throws. If this is correct, that anology should probably be removed, or modified appropriately - perhaps it should mention the heads-tails combination that occurs 50% of the time instead.

No, that is classical statistics, where the two coins can be individually identified, so that (H1-T2) and (H2-T1) are different configurations. In Bose's quantum statistics, the coins are indistinguishable (no labels for either), so that there are only three different configurations 1) both H 2) both T, and 3) one H-one T. Hence the probabilities for each configuration would be 1/3.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bzlrrhmn (talk • contribs) 17:11, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Einstein as guru
This sentence has no relevence and no sources to confirm it. Hence it should be removed Truetyper 03:47, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Some Guru indeed! When Bose went to meet Einstein in Berlin, the Great Man gave him a calculation to do, which he did successfully in a couple of days. Einstein did not like his method and made insulting remarks. Ekalavya and Dronacharya case. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bzlrrhmn (talk • contribs) 17:15, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

meeting einstein?
The third link below http://www-history.mcs.st-andrews.ac.uk/Biographies/Bose.html

says that he did not meet Einstein, though he stayed in frequent correspondence with him.

The link also says he was brought up by his mother, while the Calcuttaweb biography mentions that she died when he was young. Anyone know the real deal?

--ti 19:15, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

pronunciation
Can someone add a soundalike pronunciation guide to the beginning? Tempshill 18:54, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

On Forvo the surname is pronounced [boʃ] without a u at the end. Are both variants correct?--88.73.47.80 (talk) 18:36, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

Bengali?
Undoubtedly he was Bengali, but how about mentioning that he was Indian? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.103.192.73 (talk) 14:01, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

So some Bengalis born in the nineteenth century might not have been Indian ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bzlrrhmn (talk • contribs) 17:18, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I think his nationality and residence in infobox clearly states that he was Indian. Isn't it?GDibyendu (talk) 14:20, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

I think "Indian Bengali" isn't appropriate. It should first be stated that he is from India. It is like saying Richard Feynman was an "American New Yorker physicist", or consider calling Lev Landau as a "Soviet Azerbaijani physicist". The fact that he was born in the state of West Bengal makes him a Bengali, but his first affiliation is Indian, his nationality. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.58.77.253 (talk) 13:59, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Changed Bengali to Indian. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.167.134.117 (talk) 06:06, 22 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Actually, Bose would technically have been British and he would have almost certainly have held a British Passport. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.40.251.251 (talk) 08:55, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

No, the British ruled many countries, and their natives were British subjects, not British citizens. They needed British passports to travel but the document noted their place of birth and national origin. Sooku (talk) 18:00, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

SN Bose was an Indian citizen as soon as India got independence in 15 August 1947 and remained an Indian citizen till his death. There is no rationale behind identifying someone by their ethnicity when they clearly belong as a citizen of a recognized nation state. We don't identify British scientists by the ethnic tribes their ancestors belonged to. Do we? Deepeinstein (talk) 21:28, 20 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Per MOS:OPENPARAGRAPH\Context its national or permanent resident when the person became notable. His primary notability was before 1947, not after. Fountains of Bryn Mawr (talk) 22:02, 20 November 2016 (UTC)
 * When did the time frame of "primary notability" became a criteria for citizenship which is a legal identity? If he was not an Indian citizen, what other citizen was he? The page of CV Raman describes him as an Indian physicist and not "Tamilian physicist" even though his primary work was before India got independence. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Deepeinstein (talk • contribs) 22:13, 20 November 2016 (UTC)
 * "When did the time frame of "primary notability" became a criteria for citizenship" - please read the guideline. If you disagree with the guideline, take it up at that talk page, do not edit war. Fountains of Bryn Mawr (talk) 22:17, 20 November 2016 (UTC)
 * I have read the guidelines. There is nothing in that guidelines which is at odds with him being an Indian citizen. It says the context of his work should be included, which doesn't say why an ad hoc exemption should be made to change his citizenship. Moreover, even before republic of India came into existence, people on the Indian subcontinent were still called Indians since "India" is also a civilizational and geographical descriptor. British rulers used to call everyone as "Indians". But all that argument even if relevant in cases like JC Bose (who lived and died before India got independence) is not even required here since he legally was an Indian. I am an Indian if I hold an Indian passport. All neutral sources refer to him as an Indian physicist and there is no reason why wikipedia should resort to an ethnic descriptor. One could even call him a "Hindu physicist" but of course that would be absurd. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Deepeinstein (talk • contribs) 22:32, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

Saying that he was Bengali is surely more specific than saying that he was Indian. Why remove that extra bit of information? His nationality is already mentioned in the infobox, so why duplicate it in the text? Sminthopsis84 (talk) 17:18, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
 * That is a weird argument to make. Wikipedia articles never mention someone as Gaelic if their nationality is British. Indians have multiple sub-identities. Why not call him a "Hindu physicist" or a "Brahmin physicist" or refer him by further sub-clans like gotras? But the important point here is that whatever you choose to do, the standards have to be the same for every page and the page of SN Bose cannot be a random exception. CV Raman is not referred as a "Tamilian physicist", nor is Srinivas Ramanujan referred as "Tamilian mathematician". Katrina Kaif is referred as "British" even though she spent most of her professional life in India. Similarly Akshay Kumar is referred as "Canadian". It's simple really. Keep the same meta rules and refer people by their legal nationality. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Deepeinstein (talk • contribs) 10:48, 23 November 2016 (UTC)

Error That Wasn't
I cannot find a source for the annecdote regarding his mistake in a lecture. There are many references on the internet, but they may be circular; i.e. they are poorly cited and may have drawn information from this very article. Does anyone know where to find this anecdote regarding his lecture from a more valid source? Torsionalmetric (talk) 05:11, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

ashamed to be an Indian
While reading the article I realised a man of Bose srature was not even awarded the highest civilian award by govt of India. He lived to year 1974 but still no efforts to recognise his work...... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.224.192.186 (talk) 01:23, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

What kind of twisted logic is this? Bose's name is enshrined in a common noun, "boson" - something that eluded even Newton and Einstein! That should make you proud to be an Indian, not ashamed. It's the racist skeptics who ought to be ashamed, in dissing this tiny, tiny article just because it lacks "inline" references. Sooku (talk) 17:55, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

I think the fact that S.N. Bose's name was used to designate "bosons," even though it does fairly represent his prominence and the significance of his contributions, has led to over-interpretation on the part of some justifiably proud South Asian Indians. The use of the term "boson" relating to Bose-Einstein condensates, and of the term "Higgs boson," does not imply that S.N. Bose should receive credit for those discoveries. S.N. Bose was a very accomplished modern physicist and received tremendous recognition by having his name attached to the type of particles that can exist in a multiplicity in a single quantum mechanical state. In addition, his short surname happens to have lent itself nicely to the nomenclature. But there is a limit to the recognition owed S.N. Bose. Consider that the light particle, the photon, is also a boson. Ought one pay homage to S.N. Bose for the entire field of fiber optic communications, for the internet that it enables, etc.? I think not. (However, I am not Indian, not a Hindu.) Jabeles (talk) 14:30, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

Ambiguous pronoun reference & other points re Bose's "Early Life"
The first paragraph in this sections states:


 * Bose was born in Calcutta, British India, the eldest of seven children. His father, Surendranath Bose, worked in the Engineering Department of the East Indian Railway Company. He married Ushabati at the age of 20.

It is not clear from the preceding sentences whether the pronoun "He" in "He married" is intended to refer to Bose's father, the last named person/subject, or to Bose himself. This can be easily clarified by changing "He" to "Bose" or "The elder Bose/Bose's father." My guess is that "He" is intended to refer to Bose, but since I don't know his biography, I can't be certain. Many biographies start out with details about the subject's parents, so it could be either. In fact, "early life" is usually used to refer to the period before attainment of professional status, i.e. through secondary schooling, sometimes ending earlier even. This would again suggest that Ushabati is Bose's mother.

The next paragraph is full of "He," without it being clear which man is meant. In the introductory paragraph we have been told the Bose was a polyglot. Is the mention in this paragraph a repetition of the same information or is it information about Bose's father and what Bose was exposed to during his childhood.

Another ambiguity: in "He married Ushabati at the age of 20." Who was 20 - "He" or "Ushabati"? If it is "He," then it would be clearer to say, "At the age of 20, [name] married ...."

Finally, that last sentence appears to leave the reader hanging. Does Ushabati (mother or wife) have a surname? If mother, does Bose never marry? If wife, is there any other information? When "he married [woman's name] ..." is used, it's usually the case that the woman is likely to be known to the reader, as in "Bill Clinton married Hillary at age ___," although even then more info is usually given about the bride's background - at least surname." Take for example the article on Albert Einstein, the article would be missing so much if it simply said "At age 23, Einstein married Milleva [and seven years later married Elsa]." Why mention the wife's name at all if there isn't anything to say about her? Did they have children? If it's because nothing else is known, that should be indicated just as the Einstein article does. Ileanadu (talk) 21:03, 4 July 2012 (UTC)

Broken link to audio biography
The Indian Particle Man under External Links currently links to the wrong radio programme.Musiconeologist (talk) 23:53, 4 July 2012 (UTC)

Update: I've now contacted the programme maker, Sharon Ann Holgate. As she believes the recording no longer exists, I've deleted the link. There is however a slight chance it may still be in the Radio 4 archives, so here it is for reference:
 * The Indian Particle Man (audio biography at BBC Radio 4)

Musiconeologist (talk) 15:14, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

Bose "known for Bosons"?
I've removed (twice now) "Boson(s)" from the Known for line in the infobox. In my opinion people are known for things they did, not things named after them. Bose is known for his work on, in particular, Bose–Einstein statistics. Adding "Boson" here is like saying that Einstein is known for Einsteinium, or that John F. Kennedy is known for John F. Kennedy International Airport. --Lambiam 21:08, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
 * This seems to be tied to an announcement by the government of India crediting Bose for helping to discover the Higgs boson. People have been making similar edits to the Higgs boson and boson articles as well. CodeCat (talk) 00:15, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Also Seemingly Related? -> < ref name="NYT-20120706"> - In Any Case - Enjoy! :) Drbogdan (talk) 11:37, 7 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Maybe its the English that was off but I think a lot of people want him to be given credit for the work that lead to the Higgs-Boson particles. Tgkprog (talk) 19:56, 23 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Quite right. S.N. Bose should not be credited with every boson-related discovery that is made.  He is not known for having predicted Bose-Einstein Condensates.  He is not known for having predicted the Higgs Boson.  For Pete's sake, he has precisely nothing to do with any of the work on bosons in particle physics.  I understand the human desperation to take credit for accomplishments of one's countrymen or co-religionists.  But S.N. Bose has already received credit for the work he did on tremendous work he did and contributions he made in the field of quantum statistics.  His name adorns the term we use to describe particles that can exist in multiplicity in a single quantum statistical state.  Those of South Asian heritage should understand they are making a spectacle of themselves by claiming accomplishments for S.N. Bose that he just did not make.  But then again, I am not Indian (and am not Hindu).Jabeles (talk) 14:41, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

Picture of Einstein and Bose depicted is mounted.
Actually the original is the picture of Einstein with Leo Szilard, with Szilard face replaced by Bose's.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 143.107.128.41 (talk) 14:58, 9 December 2013 (UTC)
 * It did look suspicious to me as well. CodeCat (talk) 16:28, 9 December 2013 (UTC)
 * I nominated it for deletion: commons:Commons:Deletion_requests/File:Bose-and-einstein.gif. CodeCat (talk) 16:40, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

Quantum mechanics navbox
,, can you please explain why you oppose the addition of this navbox when Bose is listed in it? --Neil N  talk to me 17:18, 28 August 2014 (UTC)
 * @ - Thank you for your question - and for noting that "Bose" is listed in the Quantum Mechanics navbox - for my part atm, no problem whatsoever in restoring the edit if you like - in any case - Enjoy! :) Drbogdan (talk) 19:13, 28 August 2014 (UTC)

3RR violation and POV push by IP user over Bengali
An IP user (or possibly a sock of some Anonymous Coward) is consistently trying to POV push, arguing article be opened with identifying S N Bose as Indian, rather than Bengali; while referring OPENPARA. Indeed he turned out to be a Indian citizen, he was rather renown as Bengali Physicist. Anyway, as all other editors seems to disagree with this particular IP user's POV, their seems to be a consensus; which is, the LEDE shall use ethnicity over citizenship.  nafSadh did say 00:16, 12 April 2015 (UTC)
 * The wikipedia convention is that persons be identified by nationality. I am not sure what the statement "Indeed he turned out to be a Indian citizen, he was rather renown as Bengali Physicist." I dont see any discussion of the opening line other than your assertions here. So I have changed the opening line back to Indian as it was earlier, and as per convention. I am invariant under co-ordinate transformations (talk) 19:35, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

Bengali
Attempts to change this to Indian are, no doubt, made in good faith but need consensus here first. It seems most likely that the correct NPOV description would include both, perhaps Bengali Indian or Indian physicist of Bengali extraction. Guy (Help!) 20:53, 16 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Across wikipedia, for people who have been or are citizens of a modern nation state are identified by their nationality in the lead line. We include terms like Indian-American or German-Australian if someone is born in one modern nation state but has adopted citizenship of another. S.N. Bose was a citizen of India, who was born in a Bengali family. I havent come across any evidence of him renouncing his citizenship or nationality. I am invariant under co-ordinate transformations (talk) 21:20, 16 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Prior consensus was to add Bengali over Indian. However, some editor opposes this prior consensus. So we need a new one.
 * Problem with Bengalis from British Raj period is that, Bengal was then undivided and in a course of few years Bengal became part of Pakistan (and later Bangladesh) and India. Some used to live in part of Bengal which is now Bangladesh, but migrated to India with the creation of Pakistan. Now identifying many of them as Indian, over Bengali will be inaccurate. For some cases, Bengali Indian may be more appropriate. Nevertheless, the post 1947 India refers to a country which is a part of what we used to call India but now call South Asia. শুভ নববর্ষ ১৪২২Bengali new year |  nafSadh  did say 21:31, 16 April 2015 (UTC)
 * , Infobox accurately denotes his last nationality. শুভ নববর্ষ ১৪২২Bengali new year |  nafSadh did say 21:33, 16 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Your point might be valid for persons like Jagadish Bose who were born and died during the British Raj. But S.N. Bose lived a major chunk of his life after independence in what is today called India. I have no issues with identifying him as an Indian, born in a Bengali family. I am invariant under co-ordinate transformations (talk) 21:42, 16 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Your point might be valid for persons like Jagadish Bose who were born and died during the British Raj. But S.N. Bose lived a major chunk of his life after independence in what is today called India. I have no issues with identifying him as an Indian, born in a Bengali family. I am invariant under co-ordinate transformations (talk) 21:42, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

Layout
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External links modified
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Rendering error in FF
The text overwrites the second probability outcomes box (but not on chrome). 98.4.124.117 (talk) 15:19, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion: You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 13:37, 20 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Bose letter.jpg

First Bose Einstein condensates in 1995?
The article claims that a Bose Einstein condensate was first demonstrated in 1995. What happened in 1995 was a special kind of Bose-Einstein condensate. The first Bose Einstein condensates that were demonstrated were superfluids and superconductors, which were already well understood in the 1970s, when I was studying physics. We need to correct this claim. —MiguelMunoz (talk) 18:10, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

Bengali again?
Can you point me to the discussion which preferred mentoning him as Bengali, and not Indian, at the lede? Jay 💬 17:04, 15 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Actually I lost track of the stable version in this ongoing edit war, especially when an edit warrior came in and changed it back, guess they can be right sometimes Rv'ed. Fountains of Bryn Mawr (talk) 20:40, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

Legacy section
I've renamed this to recognition since the section doesn't really mention his enduring work, just ways in which he has been recognised. His legacy would be his scientific contributions and the ways they've subsequently been used.

I've included an anchor with the old name, so that incoming links to the section will still work. Musiconeologist (talk) 18:18, 16 March 2024 (UTC)


 * Actually this probably isn't the best heading either, but there's obviously some reorganisation needed too. For a start, it seems odd having the Nobel Prize material separate from the section about the Nobel nomination. Maybe combine this section with the previous section as something like Recognition and honours? Musiconeologist (talk) 18:56, 16 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Update: I've changed it back for now. The new version didn't make sense without doing the reorganisation first. Musiconeologist (talk) 20:07, 16 March 2024 (UTC)