Talk:Saud of Saudi Arabia

Saud's possible homosexual activities
There have been persistant rumors and speculations that Saud may have been fond of sex with boys, but I don't know if these rise to the level of being included in the article or not. Here's what we know.

In Secrets of the Kingdom (2005), Gerald Posner wrote:
 * "He [Saud] had become an utterly ineffective leader and his botched rule threatened the continuity of the monarchy. He drank heavily, to the fury of the religious authorities who knew of his secret addiction. Also, according to author Said Aburish, it was not a very well-kept secret inside the royal family that Saud had a liking for yound boys, and that the CIA willingly procured some for him, giving his critics the credible argument that it exposed the king to personal blackmail."

Posner's source is A Brutal Friendship: The West and the Arab Elite (1998), by Said Aburish, which said:
 * "In Kuwait, the Getty Oil Company provided some royals with blondes. King Saud's preference for little boys was not a barrier, and the CIA and oil companies provided them."

Arburish's source is Miles Copeland, The Game of Nations: The Amorality of Power Politics (1969), but that book only subtly hints that the CIA and oil companies provided Saud with "somewhat more exotic services." Arburish claims: "The suggestion in the book [that young boys were involved] was confirmed by the author [Copeland] in 1988." Copeland died in 1991, and did not leave a written statement to clear up the matter.

So the idea that young boys were provided to Saud by the CIA is ultimately based on the word of Copeland, and the word of Arburish. The hints reappear often, since the idea is so scandalous. Is this an important enough claim to include in the article? – Quadell (talk) (sleuth) 18:42, August 7, 2005 (UTC)

Biased
Single reference for all the information.

Obviously biased, not a single negative sentence in the whole article.

She old article was completely removed without any reason or discussion. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Saud_of_Saudi_Arabia&oldid=248133164

Economic influence
Lawrence Wright writes in "The Looming Tower" that:

"After the death of Abdul Aziz in November 1953, he was succeeded by Saud, his eldest son, who set a standard for wasteful extravagance, creating a new Saudi stereotype almost single-handedly as he rode through the sandy streets throwing money into the air. The restraints, such as they were, against royal opportunism dropped away as members of the royal family muscled their way into all the contracts, commissions, concessions, and franchises they could get their hands on, despite the fact that they were already being lavishly supported by the oil allowances they awarded themselves" (The Looming Tower (5th edition 2007) by Lawrence Wright, p. 66)

''"King Saud's rule was disastrous in so many ways that, in 1958, Crown Prince Faisal effectively seized control of the government. He later said that when he took over there was less than a hundred dollars in the treasury. He couldn't meet the payroll or pay the interest on the Kingdom's debt. The National Commercial Bank turned down Faisal's application for a loan, citing King Saud's miserable credit record." (The Looming Tower (5th edition 2007) by Lawrence Wright, p. 68) ''

Now I'm sure Saud was a nice enough guy, but to me the current Wikipedia page sounds a little to good to be true. And why are the only cited sources the official website of the guy?

139.184.30.132 (talk) 16:28, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Talal of Jordan which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RM bot 17:46, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

How many children did Saud have?
Problem 1: This WP article is internally inconsistent on how many children were fathered by Saud bin Abdulaziz al Saud. Section "Reign" says "Saud had 53 sons and 56 daughters" (with a broken reference), whereas section "Personal life" says "Saud has 115 children".

Problem 2: Can't find an answer to how many children he really did have. According to Frontline, Saud "had 53 sons and at least 54 daughters" (The House of Saud Family Tree, http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/saud/tree/). This makes yet a third count ("53 sons" + "at least 54 daughters" = at least 107 children).

Anybody with better sources who can fix this?

-- Molly-in-md (talk) 18:33, 19 June 2012 (UTC)


 * The statement in "Personal life" is based on the following link: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/news/the-acton-princess-calling-for-reform-in-saudi-arabia-6284225.html
 * But, there are other sources that you have given. So, it is a bit confusing.
 * Egeymi (talk) 19:09, 19 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the link -- I have added the citation for 115 to the article. But the basic question still remains.
 * -- Molly-in-md (talk) 11:49, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

External links modified
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Foreign relations article has only two citations, is heavily biased and lacks evidentiary support, e.g. Zionist "Aggression", hagiographic support of Saudi policies, respectively
The article speaks of "Zionist" (anti-Semitic term in context) "aggression" from Israel to Jordan in 1955. No citation is given for this previously unknown bellicosity, and the entire lengthy, 13 paragraph section of "Foreign relations" has a scant two citations, none of which have any bearing on this claim; or indeed, most of the others present. It ends with the claim that Saudi foreign relations have always been committed to "defending Arab countries rights." This largely ahistorical, propagandic section must be immediately worked upon, especially as it deals with a significant historical figure on a rather important topic.

I also suggest that until such large problems are remedied, that this article be downgraded from "C" class to "Start" class. It may be a bit more than necessary, but there is no division between "C" and "Start," and requiring references to reliable sources (or any at all), is it much closer to "Start," as it does not have "some references to reliable sources," at least in a large chunk of the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.162.33.175 (talk) 05:20, 4 November 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130730171527/http://www.saudigazette.com.sa/index.cfm?method=home.regcon&contentid=20120708129386 to http://www.saudigazette.com.sa/index.cfm?method=home.regcon&contentid=20120708129386

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Death
There are 2 different days.

--JFCochin (talk) 13:41, 23 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Wow – another old one nobody noticed. —[  Alan M 1 (talk) ]— 14:19, 23 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Well, maybe. The source I just recovered – the King Saud Foundation, supposedly official –  shows January 24.  —[  Alan M 1 (talk) ]— 15:51, 23 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Hmmm. Until this edit, the article said "King Saud died at the age 67 years in Dhul-Hijja 6, 1388H, Corresponding to January 24, 1969". The Islamic calendar date was removed by the edit, leaving January 24. The problem is, according to this calendar, "6-Dhu al-Hijjah-1388" is Sunday, "23-Feb-1969", just before the Hajj. I'll also note that "6-Dhu al-Qidah-1388" is Friday, "24-Jan-1969", which could explain the mistake. Did KSF get it wrong because they looked at the wrong month?P.S.: this calendar shows dates that are one day later in the Gregorian calendar (i.e. 25 Jan, 24 Feb). I understand there is some wiggle room because of time zones and the way the months are determined based on lunar phase observation by humans at the time. —[ Alan M 1 (talk) ]— 16:26, 23 February 2019 (UTC)
 * ✅. More support for the February date: Prior to this edit, the article said "His physician arrived after he had died in the hotel on 23 February 1969". The cited source, which I'll add to the article, confirms this date. I'm convinced. —[ Alan M 1 (talk) ]— 16:57, 23 February 2019 (UTC)

NPOV
I wanted to reassert that this article is *painfully* biased, and has no sense of neutrality. For example, "When King Abdulaziz appointed him as an heir to his throne in 1933, his advice to his son was that he should always be devoted to the service of the cause of the Almighty, aspire towards raising aloft the voice of Islam, strive hard to look after the concerns and affairs of his subjects, and be truthful in word and deed." Zkidwiki (talk) 01:34, 14 August 2019 (UTC)