Talk:Saw (film)/Archive 1

Tagline
it seems common to put the tagline on movie pages quite some way down, why is that the case? I'm not sure it's really a part of the plot and the spoiler warning doesn't apply here either.

(clem 15:28, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC))


 * I picked it up from some other film articles, and it seems (to me anyway) that it's the best place to put it. It looks too disjointed when it's before the synopsis. Xezbeth  16:59, Apr 8, 2005 (UTC)

inconsistencies: (response by Droidguy1119 14:24, 5 February 2007 (UTC))
 * how does electrocuting through the chains work? afaik for a shock the circuit has to be closed and the floor doesn't seem to be wet. | commentary says "better not to ask questions ;)
 * Adam wakes up soaked in the bathtub and still spends the rest of the movie in his (wet?) clothes?
 * dr Gordon is awake when Adam gets off the tub, how come he didn't see/hear Jigsaw dump Adam in the tub and then lie down? (maybe they were sedated and Jigsaw electrocuted them awake?) | Dr. Gordon is just awake before Adam, not while the game is being setup. setup is shown in Saw III.
 * given how long the men were chained in the toilet, Adam would have probably found his key in the tub, therefore the ending of the film makes very little sense | key is indeed washed down. commentary for Saw III says a deleted scene for that film, the third film, was Jigsaw telling Amanda to tie it to some part of the tub, so that it would not get washed down, but she ignores it.
 * also: how does Jigsaw lay on the floor the whole time acting so dead and not moving so much as a muscle to breath, all with a certified physician in the room observing him. BIG omission on the part of director Wan. | Jigsaw takes something to slow his heart rate (again see Saw III). It may still be a stretch, but on the other hand, I believe the movie shows us "everything" in the bathroom so I think, that while the filmmakers never offered this as an answer, it is a good one: if you woke up in a foreign bathroom with a dead guy, would you pay enough attention to the body to notice if it moved slightly? I don't think I would have the time...

EDIT: When Adam woke up in the bathtub, in the first thirty seconds of the movie, his erratic movements caused the plug to be pulled from the tub, and subsequently, the key was washed down the drain.


 * Jigsaw's lair found by the cops would have contained enough evidence for them to determine Jigsaw's true identity (or at least positively confirm that he wasn't dr Gordon)

subtle clues about the story progressing: (clem 17:08, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC))
 * the dead body's tape recorder doesn't contain a tape
 * Zep says "don't look at me, I can't help you" when Adam and Dr. Gordon discover the camera
 * the opening credits/the key sinking down (but the key got lost, so the game could not be won anyways?) (also note connection to Mulholland Dr.'s opening credits where the solution is already given)
 * no casing in the revolver when Dr. Gordon loads it. This means the 'dead man' did not shoot himself.
 * when Adam and dr Gordon talk to each other, they are often shot from John's POV


 * Reverted back in plot details, this page has a tagegd spoiler warning already, removing the element takes away from the article for those reading it in retrospect of seeing the film. xaosflux 12:28 06-Nov-2005
 * X marks the spot. John is lying on the bathroom floor with his legs and arms spread out in a way forming letter X, therefore hinting that letter X has something to do with his body.--Gusiman 22:29, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Inconsistancy: If Zepp's poison was so slow-acting, wouldn't he be able to go to a hospital? >.<

Interesting, however X marks the spot where the box is hidden in the wall.

ON ANOTHER NOTE~ Isn't the guy how burned alive an arsonist... not a guy who fakes an illness? Or that's how I interperated it- I haven't actually checked my theory.

WhatTheFace? 14:00, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Copyvio
The copyvio only applies to the trivia part; but the policy is not clear on how to handle this. (The offending part has to be removed from the history too, after all). Old Version w/o Trivia is on temppage. Sorry for the inconvenience. -- Yoghurt 8 July 2005 01:25 (UTC)
 * Sorry, have found the specific documentation in the copyvio talk page. Removing the part is enough. -- Yoghurt 8 July 2005 01:32 (UTC)

RE: MERGE SUGGESTION
Comments regarding merging Saw (2003 Film) with this article:


 * DON'T MERGE: The other article references a a differant, though related film. The characters in the other film are somewhat diferant, although the scene's are realted.  Suggest putting a SEE ALSO link on this article. Xaosflux 21:59, 23 November 2005 (UTC)


 * As there have been NO comments, I'm removnig the tag(s). xaosflux T/C 02:05, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

Two Incorrect Statements in Plot Section
The plot area says two things that are incorrect.

First: 'Jigsaw' "abducts morally wayward people". 'Jigsaw' abducts the first victim (Razorwire) because he made a suicide attempt: I flatly reject that suicide is 'morally wayward' as that means it's wrong, suicide has many causes it can't be deemed 'wrong' as simply as that. I'm changing this.

Second: 'Jigsaw ' "does not actually kill his victims himself". That, too, is incorrect: if Zep had died of the poison it would have been "Jigsaw's" fault, the same for Amanda, the victim with the jaw breaker. Adam presumably dies in the bathroom, hence "Jigsaw" killed him. Also, according to Wikipedia: "In law, murder is the crime of a human being causing the death of another human being, without lawful excuse, and with intent to kill or with an intent to cause grievous bodily harm." What "Jigsaw" does is, therefore, defined by wikipedia as murder.


 * Jigsaw commits murder, but does not actually kill them himself. There is a distinction between killing and murdering. Monkeyfinger 17:40, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm editting both of these now.

Wouldn't it be better to make a note saying that suicide is moraly wayward in Jigsaw's oppinion? Moberho 03:31, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

It says directly in the movie by one of the characters that he does not kill them himself; I'm putting it back in, in quotation marks.

He doesn't kidnap morally wayward people, he kidnaps people who do not value life. That's why he says things about how the victim will value life more. (See scene with Amanda, scene at end where Adam is left in the room) WhatTheFace? 13:53, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

All of this is subjective, maybe a tag somewhere that notes that all of the things he does, he does because he perceives them as whatever. Nothing is morally wayward, Jigsaw just sees them as such. The people may or may not value life, Jigsaw does not know, he just perceives it as such. 129.120.246.72 03:08, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Premium Channel
Does anybody know what premium channel Saw is on (HBO, Starz, etc.)?

Showtime

Similar to Phone Booth??
How is Saw similar to Phone Booth? mtz206 02:37, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Guy doing bad things is trapped by a "higher entity" and must play games to stay alive? // Gargaj 01:09, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

There is only a superficial and cursory similarity here. 06:35, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Spoiler Trivia
In the DVD commentary for Saw, Leigh Whannell claims that an audience member during a viewing in a theater had to be excused for vomiting. While it is unknown why or at what point, his best guess would the scene with Lawrence sawing off his foot.
 * Or where Amanda takes the key out of the guy's stomach? --Mark PEA 18:45, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

The gun laying next to jigsaw is a revolver. It wouldn't eject the shell casing as it was implied. "'an audience member during a viewing in a theater had to be excused for vomiting'"

Well I think it's when Adam put his hand into the toilet bowl :)--Glen Benton 11:40, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Plot details
Some plot details I found missing: If someone saw the movie it would be nice if someone could include them. // Gargaj 00:56, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
 * 1) The previous victims.
 * 2) The box with the cellphone and cigarettes + the cigarette "trick".
 * 3) The warehouse chase where Sing dies with the guy and the drills.
 * 4) Tapp being removed from Police, paying Adam to take photos of Lawrence being infidel.

it has the main characters switched around leigh wannel plays doctor gordon and cary ells plays adam

Updated the plot section extensively today, Feb 5th 2007. I felt there were a lot of details not included and I wanted to fix it (including the warehouse chase, the previous victims, Tapp). If I feel less lazy might fix other two films. Droidguy1119 14:24, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Unlikely things
also, how did jigsaw electrocute the victims if he didnt have anything in his hand but the gun, and how did he press it without either of them knowing if he was ina spread position


 * His mouth?
 * Perhaps he had instructed Zepp to do so.


 * He could have had it hidden under his palm, and just pressed down a bit to use it when the two guys were distracted. I think the bigger stretch is that a doctor, even scared and distracted, didn't notice him breathing.Rasi2290


 * I had always taken it that Zepp had done it. Part of his rules were to ensure that Adam and Lawrence were playing correctly by their rules.  He wants to survive, so he is playing correctly, regardless of how that affects the others.  I have wondered whether or not Zepp knows that Tobin is alive in the middle of the room, and is therefore observing him as well.  FatDaks (talk) 11:15, 6 December 2008 (UTC).

The point about the doctor not being able to make out whether the man in the centre was dead or not is a valid one. However, there is an explanation of sorts in the third edition of the movie, Saw III in which John (Jigsaw) is shown injecting himself with a drug to slow his heartbeat and relax his muscles, before proceeding to lie down. The scene may have been thought of and inserted into the movie because of the critisism received, or may have been thought out earlier, I'm not sure which. Complexvanilla 07:17, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Possible Points of Inspiration
This film appears to take a page from The Abominable Dr. Phibes. Dr. Phibes is punishing the medical doctors he believes are responsible for his late wife's death on the operating table.

At one point a key is placed in a victim's chest for which one of said surgeons must remove it before acid dripps on the victim's face. The victim is also the son of the surgeon.

Phibes was made in 1971 and the writers and directors would have had access to this movie. mice 06:36, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Detective Tapp Dead
In the trivia section, it is stated that it is unclear whether Tapp is dead or alive after the events of the first movie. I would think that he'd be dead, or else if he made it out alive, he would have been able to bring other police officers to Jigsaw's place of operations. It seems senseless to say that he might still be alive.

I don't know when this above comment was made or whether anyone will see this but it has been announced that the Saw video game will have the player taking the role of Detective Tapp, between Saw I and II, so Jigsaw must have found him and fixed his bullet wound. As with every horror movie (especially a Saw movie) don't believe anyone is dead unless they show something positively fatal happen to them on screen. Droidguy1119 (talk) 07:00, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

"we see"
is anyone unconformtable with the first person voice used in the synopsis? it doesn't fit the detached, 3rd person nature of an encyclopedia.

I agree.--Mooseman153 15:30, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Font
I've looked for the font used on the saw logo and found it. it is called 'glue' but I haven't seen it anywhere where it can be downloaded for free, has anyone else and if so, where?!

Mark Rodriguez
I don't think it should be merged here, as his page has already been placed into the List of Saw Characters page. JackOfHearts 22:22, 20 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I think it's good to have a page for each trap.. but that's just my opinion, J-Ros 21:29, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

English article is so small
Why English article is so small? Where is "Trivia" section? Why article in f*cken russian wikipedia is a feutured article and english is so smal??? Can anybody improve it? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 85.25.148.242 (talk) 15:58, 17 February 2007 (UTC).

Well, you can enlarge this article if you really want to. I have personally created and translated a few articles from English into Russian. Sic: Russian audience is also there so please don't be a peasant.--Glen Benton 11:36, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Deaths section unnecessary
I think the Deaths section is unnecessary as they are already mentioned in the plot synopsis which is already overly long. A summary of the deaths in the films is overkill. Mcr29 17:30, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Either Gordon or Lawrence, pick one.
The plot continually switches between Lawrence and Gordon, which could potientially confuse readers of the page. I'm not going to make the changes (perhaps people who have had more experience with the movies could), but its continually confusing and frustrating to try to read it. Disinclination 06:30, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Microsoft Word's find-and-replace function made it an easy fix. Droidguy1119 07:07, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Against a name change.
"Saw" is the name of the film. Unless there is some sort of official word that the film has been renamed a la A New Hope I say the current name should remain. --Lenin and McCarthy |  (Complain here) 03:04, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree. No reason to rename, except official renaming. Cherry 09:01, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Trivia spoilers
Why is there spoilers for the sequels in the trivia section? I have only seen the first film, so I'm kinda pissed right now. I thought it would safe to read the article because this should be only about Saw I. Those spoilers should go in the series article or somewhere but not here. --Mika1h 22:08, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

taglines
Does it really add to the article to list all the taglines? Any objections to removing them? --Lenin and McCarthy |  (Complain here) 02:45, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Removing all of them, no. But I agree there are too many, we don't need a complete list. Keeping only two or three would be fine. talking Ch e rry 08:59, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I dunno. No GA or FA articles include their taglines. I'll remove a few of them for now until more input on the subject is found. --Lenin and McCarthy |  (Complain here) 18:54, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Trivia section
I think we can get rid of it

first off, the saw in 60 seconds easter egg is only relevant to the uncut edition, so just put it in the section about the uncut DVD

make a new section for saw soundtrack, then have a link to the soundtrack article (like in the saw 3 article), after that link, put the tidbit about the megadeath song, or just move that tidbit to the soundtrack page

the fact it was filmed in 18 days and that Tobin moved his hand slightly is completely trivial and needs to be removed from the article, its also a spoiler

probably remove the bit about it being parodied, since it isn't really that widespread in pop culture, theres only three times where it was mentioned or parodied, and it doesn't have a lot to do with saw, and it really doesn't merit a pop culture section. plus, its already been mentioned in the series section

these are all suggestions, feel free to revert if you disagree with my changes, but please actually state reasons rather than going into a revert war

Plot Cleanup
I cleaned up the "plot" section a little. I'm afraid I didn't make it much shorter, but I think it's clearer now. Ormaybemidgets 15:43, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:AdamSawLawrence.jpg
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BetacommandBot 06:45, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

corpse image
Why do we need the image of the corpse? It's not remarkable, and doesn't illustrate the plot significantly. I move that the picture be removed. --Simpsons fan 66 03:21, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
 * The 'corpse' contributes to one of the most famous parts of the film, namely the twist ending.--CyberGhostface (talk) 05:01, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Plot Ending Issues
There are a few things that really need to be changed:

1) When Lawrence does not respond to Adam's pleas to return...

As Lawrence was crawling away, Adam said something like "Are we going to be okay?" and Lawrence said yes.

2) With the key lost and the hacksaw out of reach, Adam has damned himself to a slow death in the bathroom. John flicks off the lights and muses, "Game over!" before slamming the door, sealing Adam in the bathroom as he screams in despair over the credits.

John says "Most people are so ungrateful to be alive, but not you. Not anymore. GAME OVER!" as he's making his way out of the room. That was the same thing he said to Amanda when she survived his game, and implies that Adam and Lawrence had survived his game as well. What happened to them after that was never clarified, but if Lawrence really does show up in Saw V or VI (rumored since the lawsuit with Cary Elwes has been settled), maybe we'll get answers then.

Treewaller (talk) 03:56, 1 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I thought the "most people" line was just a voiceover from the earlier scene with Amanda. And it doesn't imply that Adam survived his game either, because he was left there to rot.--CyberGhostface (talk) 04:08, 1 May 2008 (UTC)


 * It could've been a voice over, but that doesn't change the context. And John didn't kill Adam at the end, he explained the part Adam hadn't figured out (the keys) and then left because the game was over. Why Lawrence never came back for him hasn't been revealed. Treewaller (talk) 05:13, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Brainwashing Americans???
Why does the second paragraph say "the story revolves around (brainwashing Americans)"? Why the brackets? Is this graffiti? I don't get it. FatDaks (talk) 11:19, 6 December 2008 (UTC).
 * It's most likely vandalism. Thanks for pointing it out, I'll go remove it.--CyberGhostface (talk) 14:13, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

As of January 2009, there are only FIVE films
Someone had written in the reception section that as of January 2009, there were "five sequels" with "a sixth film in planning" or something like that. Obviously, this is untrue, as that would imply right now (February 2009) that there are already six films with a seventh in the works.

However, anyone whose paid attention to the series knows that there are only five films out now, with a sixth in the works.

I figured it was a simple slip, so I changed it, only to have it changed back to the blatantly wrong within a few days.

To clarify, there are only four sequels so far, with a fifth sequel on the way, there are not five sequels out, as of right now. That will be true in October. For now, it needs to remain at four sequels.

MaximumMadnessStixon (talk) 13:38, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

plot holes?
it could not be zepp electrocuting them as kramer electrocutes adam in the bathroom after adam kills zep and has a gun pointed at kramer ...also when the doctor is trying to reach the cell phone he does everything even going as far as cutting his foot off when all he needs to do is take his dress shirt off and use it like he instructed adam to use his in the beginning of the film to reach the tape recorder. im not sure where these should be noted this is my first time writing anything on wikipedia, i watched the films again last night and noticed these 2 items —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.180.159.89 (talk) 16:51, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

I also noticed that Zepp was about to shoot Lawrence with his almost fully loaded gun, but for some reason, Adam didn't think about pointing the gun at the chain and shooting himself free. But oh well, it's not that big of a deal. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.18.3.142 (talk) 03:05, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

Lead section
Just cleaned up the lead section. Hope it's a little better than |before, but probably needs additional work and references. Mike Allen talk · contribs 04:57, 2 November 2009 (UTC)