Talk:Sawtooth National Forest/Archive 1

Photos
I've included a photo from the Utah section of the SNF, but some of the more spectacular Idaho parts are warrented also, so I'm not removing the photo request tag - I'll just change it to Idaho instead of Utah. &mdash; Zaui (talk) 20:20, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Assessment & Review Request from WikiProject United States
I have recently made major revisions to the Sawtooth National Forest page. I think that with some review and revision this article will qualify for FA status. I also think that this forest may have the most comprehensive coverage (including all linked pages about forest features) of any U.S. National Forest, and perhaps any protected area. Feel free to make grammatical and formatting changes, but before adding, removing, and changing content I would like to hear about the changes. Fredlyfish4 (talk) 21:28, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Just a fast glance - this is a fantastic article with wonderful photos. Maile66 (talk) 21:44, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I made a few updates to the tables per MOS:DTT. Before this could go to FAC though, the sources will need some review. Several appear broken in terms of formatting, and I'm not sure all of them qualify as "high-quality reliable sources", or in some cases, as "reliable sources".
 * Just double check that things are done consistently in terms of formatting. I would find replacements for the IMDB links and anything that looks like it's a fansite (peakbagger.com) or otherwise has user-submitted content.
 * If you're using the citation templates, use them for all citations for consistency; if not, make sure everything is manually formatted in a consistent fashion.
 * Try not to fix citations with full first names with those that use initials only. (I'm not saying either is better or worse, but I prefer using full names where possible.)
 * Try to make sure everything has authors in "Last, First" format.
 * I personally try to make sure that each has an author (even if it's "Staff" on corporate works), a date/year, publisher, etc. I'd rather expend a little time to make sure everything is as complete as possible than have questions on where the source originated.
 * In short, comb for the niggling little stylistic things ahead of time, and you'll save yourself time during the FAC process. With FAC, the devil can be in the details. Good luck!  Imzadi 1979  →   22:17, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

Other than whats listed above here are a couple of things I recommend:
 * The lede shouldn't have refs. The lede summarizes the article so the place in the article where the information is contained should have the reference
 * The lede is a bit too long IMO
 * The lede should summarize the article but there appears to be some info in the lede that isn't in the article
 * Bare refs such as 1, 2 and 12. This expands on what Imzadi1979 said about standardizing the refs.
 * Use a consistent date format. I see at least 3 different formats
 * Yeah, the dates consistency. MOS:DATEUNIFY This got pointed out to me recently, so just passing it along.Maile66 (talk)
 * Yeah, the dates consistency. MOS:DATEUNIFY This got pointed out to me recently, so just passing it along.Maile66 (talk)

Aside from these mostly stylistic and nitpicky things great job it looks like a really well written article. Kumioko (talk) 01:57, 12 May 2012 (UTC) Thanks for the help folks. I've been working on making changes per your suggestions.Fredlyfish4 (talk) 01:31, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
 * It would be best if the images had alt text. I don't know if its required but its highly recommended.

Assessment Request from WikiProject Protected areas
I have recently made major revisions to the Sawtooth National Forest page. I think that with some review and revision this article will qualify for FA status. I also think that this forest may have the most comprehensive coverage (including all linked pages about forest features) of any U.S. National Forest, and perhaps any protected area. Feel free to make grammatical and formatting changes, but before adding, removing, and changing content I would like to hear about the changes. I also made this request under Wikipedia talk:WikiProject United States, which seems to be a much more active project. Fredlyfish4 (talk) 21:28, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Great improvements, so raised quality rating accordingly. I would like to suggest that the lead should explain what the "national forest" status means in this case in terms of protection. The last paragraph of the "Forest management" section I found enlightening in this regard, but I think this should be clarified upfront. I am also not sure why the Human history is the first section, given that this is an article about protected nature. In any case I would suggest nominating it for a comprehensive GA review. -- ELEKHHT 14:31, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

Boise County
Please verify that the Sawtooth National Forest includes Boise County. Us441(talk)(contribs) 00:08, 23 August 2012 (UTC)


 * The inclusion of Boise County may be a point of contention. Let me first note that Boise County should not be confused with Boise City, which is in Ada County. Approximately 1/4 to 1/3 of the Sawtooth Wilderness is within Boise County according to the official forest map (Sawtooth National Forest, U.S. Forest Service. Sawtooth National Forest (Map) (1998 ed.)). The Sawtooth Wilderness is managed as part of the Sawtooth National Recreation Area, which is part of Sawtooth National Forest. While I could not find any records, I believe that in the original designation of Sawtooth National Forest, part of its western boundary was along the Custer County - Boise County line, which runs down the divide of the Sawtooth Mountains. Thus, by the original designation Sawtooth National Forest was not in Boise County. However, since at least 1936 when the Sawtooth Primitive Area was created (with the same boundaries as the current Sawtooth Wilderness) the entire primitive area has been managed by Sawtooth National Forest (including that in Boise County). This is a practice in the Forest Service of having one National Forest manage areas that were originally designated as part of another National Forest. In 1972, Congress designated the Sawtooth Wilderness (and part of Boise County) as part of the Sawtooth National Recreation Area, which again, is part of Sawtooth National Forest. As a former Forest Service employee, I know that no one considers areas managed by one forest to be part of another. The official map clearly shows that Boise National Forest is outside of the area managed as Sawtooth National Forest, and signs welcoming visitors to the forest are placed at the management boundaries. So, for all purposes other than for the original 1905 designation (which is in contradiction to the 1972 SNRA law), Sawtooth National Forest is in Boise County. Fredlyfish4 (talk) 17:42, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

Another problem
I can see that references 4 and 5 do not give the acreage mentioned in the article, hence some tags.
 * I have obtained the 2.1 acre estimate based on the official visitor guide, which I uploaded to the WikiCommons here from the USFS website here . I did this because the USFS website is only sporadically available, and for the past three months I could not find the visitor guide online, plus it's US government document. From there I obtained exact figure in this manner: I added the ranger district totals for Minidoka, Fairfield, and Ketchum based on those figures given on the Sawtooth National Forest Website under Recreation - Hiking - Day Hiking - Minidokta/Fairfield/Ketchum. I had actually previously listed these under "Forest Management." For some reason the Sawtooth National Forest Website does not include an accurate acreage of the SNRA, so to get this I obtained 756,019 from several other sources, primarily the Land Areas of the National Forest System.
 * Oh, I just realized that that is a problem. Piecing sources togeher is Original research. Us441 (talk to me) (My piece) 12:36, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Actually, simple math is permitted, but obviously it would be better to find an official source for the sum.  Acroterion   (talk)   22:45, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

500,000 acres
Where did the 500,000 acre estimate come from in the Wilderness section? Us441 (talk to me) (My piece) 19:55, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Ref 19 "Central Idaho Economic Development and Recreation Act (CIEDRA)". Sierra Club Sawtooth Group. Retrieved May 3, 2012. Fredlyfish4 (talk) 22:16, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Sorry. I did not see that because that citation is located before the fact. Us441 (talk to me) (My piece) 00:01, 26 August 2012 (UTC)