Talk:Sayf Balud

Using the Daily Beast without attribution
apologies I didn't realise we were editing at the same time - didn't mean to be in contradiction with you! I am concerned about using anything from the Daily Beast article without attribution. Although the publication is usually reliable (The Daily Beast is considered generally reliable for news. Most editors consider The Daily Beast a biased or opinionated source. Some editors advise caution when using this source for controversial statements of fact related to living persons.), this article, by a journalist who has no other publications to his name, has been very widely criticised by several authorative experts and I think we need to be super careful with it. BobFromBrockley (talk) 17:22, 5 October 2020 (UTC)
 * No problem, your concerns are valid, after all. Note that I tried to add other sources to the article (mostly Heras) to support whatever the Daily Beast declared. As Heras supports the birthplace, I think it is ok to list it just as it is. As for the other stuff (spy within ISIL etc.), that mostly came from Heras, not the Daily Beast. In addition, I think thast you might got confused as to Aymenn's viewpoint because he changed his position within his article after reading Heras. Applodion (talk) 17:26, 5 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks . I did get confused as Daily Beast and Aymenn articles were both updated after my first reading and I didn't see Heras. Article massively improved now. BobFromBrockley (talk) 13:43, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Sayf's entire career is confusing anyways (as both Aymenn as well as Heras admit), so no wonder that one might misread stuff. In fact, your encouragements and edits also greatly helped to improve the article, so thanks for that. Applodion (talk) 14:49, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

ISIL member
in edit summaries: "All sources beside Sayf agree that he was an ISIL member at some point" and "Aymenn & Heras absolutely agrees that Sayf was part of ISIL". Actually that's not right. Aymenn Jawad Al-Tamimi; "he had some kind of working relation with ISIS at that point [2013], at the minimum as part of the joint rebel-ISIS efforts against the YPG/PYD in northern Syria... Sayf Abu Bakr's working relationship with or alleged membership of ISIS could only have lasted for a year at most (c. summer 2013-summer 2014), if true". As this is a BLP, we need to at least say "reportedly"... BobFromBrockley (talk) 17:27, 5 October 2020 (UTC)
 * No problem with that change; in fact, I already changed it that way in the intro. The issue is that Aymenn changed his viewpoint from no evidence for ISIL involvement to there is some evidence, which makes his position confusing. I would also like to state that several other sources seem to agree in general with Heras, as seen in the note I added. Applodion (talk) 17:30, 5 October 2020 (UTC)