Talk:Sayyid/Archive 1

El Cid Campeador
The title of Cid is derived from Arabic Sayyid or more precisely in the Andalusi dialect, al-sidi. This title was bestowed on Rodrigo Díaz de Vivar because of respect for him and not for any claim to descent from Mohammed. Shouldn't this be included? User:Jaedza Sunday, 21 May, 2006 06:21 UTC

Percentage
Does any one have the percentage of shia that are sayyids I think in iran its 10% and 15% in pakistan according to this iranian article —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hyqasim (talk • contribs) 15:34, 11 February 2008

Name of Idris in Chart
The reason cited for removing the title for the descendants of Idris ibn Abdallah was that they were just a subline of Imam Hasan ibn Ali.

I find this to be inconsistent with rest of the lines included in the Chart: after all, descendants of Imam Musa al-Kadhim could refer to them selves as "Al-Hussaini" since Imam Husayn ibn Ali was an antecedent to Musa al-Kadhim.

If no one disagrees with this reasoning, I'll add the titles.

(Yster76) 19:35, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

Name change from Sayyid to Syed
Google Results for Sayyid are 659,000. Google Results for Syed are 6,360,000. Teaksmitty (talk) 15:55, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

Just make sure you add link in sayyid entry to this syed. Buhadram (talk) 19:36, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

Requested move 28 September 2015

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: not moved. DrKiernan (talk) 13:20, 10 October 2015 (UTC)

Sayyid → Syed – See Sayyid talk page. In short, 66 times more google results for Syed than Sayyid. – Twitteristhebest (talk) 18:57, 28 September 2015 (UTC)
 * This is a contested technical request (permalink). Anthony Appleyard (talk) 22:14, 28 September 2015 (UTC)


 * The standard literary Arabic form is "Sayyid". Anthony Appleyard (talk) 22:15, 28 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Oppose Don't doubt that the word may be overwhelmingly spelled "Syed" in Google search, but I've seldom seen that version in English-language text. Is this an India-Pakistan vs Europe/US difference? In English usage, the common spelling I see is "Sayyid". FactStraight (talk) 00:49, 29 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Oppose. I don't doubt "Syed" is far more common a spelling in South Asia but this topic does not have special ties to that region.  Better to go with something closer to the standard Arabic transliteration.  —  AjaxSmack   00:56, 30 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Oppose per FactStraight. - HyperGaruda (talk) 18:32, 2 October 2015 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

On Jalalabad
In this article it is written that one Jalal, from the "Syeds of Sargodha" family, moved to a deserted area in Afghanistan which was later called Jalalabad after him. Utter nonsense. Jalalabad in Afghanistan was named after the Mughal emperor Jalauddin Mohammad Akbar, who founded this city in the late 16th century (AD). It is in such places as these pages however, that one can expect to find such wild tales. And there are many who are only too willing to tell them. Also, the section "Syeds of Pakistan" and many of the names it mentions, are to be taken with no more than a grain of salt. The use of "Syed"(or "Sayyid") as a family name among Muslims in the Indian subcontinent is very longstanding and ten-a-penny, often conjured up in the old times when genealogies could be easily invented, so as to gain the ready prestige and upward mobility it offered. Refer to the section "Ibn Batutah on the usage of the term 'Syed' in India", to see what I mean. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.186.142.5 (talk) 17:24, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

List by Anon
Hullo, anon, your list of descendents of the various imams is completely lacking the family names you promised. I left the list there, in the hopes that you're just in the middle of working on it.

Identification of the Hashemites with the other sons of Abu Talib is wrong -- they're descendants of Hassan.

It also should be made clear that only Twelver Shi'a accept all those imams, and that there are also Fivers and Seveners. Zora 5 July 2005 06:28 (UTC)

Port Said
Is the Said in Port Said related to this? --Error 00:37, 19 July 2005 (UTC)


 * No, it's an entirely different word in Arabic. In a scientific transliterion "sayyid" might be used for the topic of this article, but Port Said would be transliterated "sa'īd" (more or less, the word actually means "happy"). Palmiro | Talk 20:29, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

warning: inaccurate material in the article
Just thought I'd let you all know that the last sentence of paragraph 2 and the entire text of paragraph 3 is complete Bullshit. The anon writer obviously has issues against Sayyeds.--Zereshk 21:28, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

oh, and btw, Zora, if youre following this anon dude's edits, let me introduce you to him: it is the likes of him that are what you call "Persian Nationalists": They hate anything and everything about Islam, especially relating to Iran, and yet go to great measures to defend its natonial pride and pre-Islamic glory, even if it means defending the contemporary regime. If you thought I was a "persian nationalist", wait until you meet these folks.--Zereshk 21:42, 30 July 2005 (UTC)


 * I already toned his edit WAY down, but if you say it's doubtful, I'll remove it until he can come up with something like a newspaper article to support it. Now about the tax -- I don't know how it works these days, but I have seen a fair number of historical references to taxes to support sayyids, pensions for sayyids, etc. The one that immediately comes to mind is a fascinating 1832 book called Observations on the Mussulmauns of India, by Mrs. Meer Hassan Ali. It was written by an Englishwoman who married a sayyid of Lucknow. It is available as a free e-book from Project Gutenberg. Zora 23:10, 30 July 2005 (UTC)


 * Historically, taxes may have been used to support some Sayyeds in Iran. But in contemporary times, such things do not exist (at least not in Iran, and not in a mainstream sense). Some Ayatollahs involved in politics may have had something like that going on. But for the ordinary Sayyed, there is no such thing as a pension or any other privileges.


 * Trust me, if there were such things, I wouldnt have to go begging the Financial Aid office every semester to increase my budget. I do have Sayyed blood in me, and a huge established family, but I have never ever ever even remotely heard of the things our anon friend is talking about.


 * However, one must remember that the claims of our Anon friend are the trademark of neo-Persian nationalists. Ive seen the likes of our Anon friend alot here and there. If youve ever run across www.orkut.com, you will see dozens of communities there that openly preach hatred against Arabs. These are reactionaries that have formed in response to the radical theocratic establishment in Iran since the revolution. They blame everything on Islam, and they still see the 7th century Arab invasion as the source of Iran's misery.


 * I on the other hand, do think that some good did come out of the Arab invasion, even despite all the tyranny and bloodshed. Rumi, Khwarizmi, Avicenna, Biruni, and a whole proud scholarly culture did emerge out of what Islam offered to Iran. We took the best of what Islam had to offer, mixed it with some indigenous ideologies, and came up with some pretty sophisticated cultural results. Yet I will be the first to tell you that the current establishment in Iran is not democratic, and has twisted religion to maintain its political grip in power.


 * But then again, what many people, such as our anon hatemonger here dont realize is that not all Ayatollahs and religious folk are or were ever part of this establishment. There were ayatollahs that were against Khomeini. There were those that did and do advocate the separation of church and state. There were and are those that view politics as evil and corrupting for the Shi'a cleric. There were good mullahs, as well as bad ones. Heck I even remember seeing ayatollahs that were proud of Shahnameh.


 * If I support(ed) nationalism, it was only an effort to try to preserve a culture that some reactonaries have been trying to erase from memory. Nationalism is good only as long as it is used to preserve ones identity and roots from oblivion. Not more. That's why I have also been writing articles here on WP supporting other cultures as well, not just Persian.


 * The story of Iran is a sad one. On the one side, you have the radical Islamists that try to erase all memories of Iran's pre-Islamic identity. On the other side, you have the reactionary people like our anon dude here, who long for the lost glory of The Persian Empire to make them feel an epsilon of pride, as Iran continues to spiral downward and fade away from its past mighty empire that it once was.--Zereshk 13:40, 31 July 2005 (UTC)


 * You are a half-turk, half-arab with no roots who can't even speak or write Persian like a native (even in short expressions it is obvious in your case) who has no real roots in Iran and all your edits have been about image and fooling yourself about your fantasy of the bogus identity that you have created for yoruself in your mind. Nearly all your "contributions" to Wikipedia have been about promoting your fake image, especially your uncultured fucking Qajar turks and your lizzard-munching arab ancestors and basically, your "contributions" can be summed up as "fake image with pretty pictures" (may i say that the pictures are not nearly as "pretty" as you think, by the way?).  Also, your behaviour in Wikipedia clearly shows the half-Arab/half-Turkish blood.  You act exactly, 100% like a half-arab/half-turk boor, with ZERO tolerance and respect for others and ZERO sense of compromise and ZERO sign of culture or civility.


 * If you think the Khums financial aid and social programmes for the Sayyeds is not true, and if you have even one single cell of brain in your vacuous cramium, why don't you ask yoruself then what exactly "Sahme Sadaat" part of the Khums means?  Does it mean "portion for the movie stars"?!  You really ARE dumb, aren't you?  And if you still have doubts, since you are from a mullah, sayyed family, I am sure you know that you can write to any of the ayatollahls offices or the howza and ask them any question you want.  Simply ask them what "Sahme Sadaat" portion of the Khums exactly means.


 * Last but not least, the Persian Art picture that you have uploaded, you have characterized it as "the artist mixes blah blah with Qajar art" ... that is 100% bullshit.  Can you provide a link that says the artist has indeed made such claim?  That is YOUR claim, because you are from a fucking Qajar turk family.  I will change it until you can provide a reliable link that supports that claim (i.e., it must clearly show that the artist has made such a claim); otherwise, what you are doing is again a sign of your turkish/arab incivility that you allow yourself to characterize an artist's art on her behalf to suit your fake "identity". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.111.161.69 (talk • contribs) 00:36, 1 August 2005 (UTC)

Anon, you simply must not attack other editors this way. You can be banned for personal attackes.

If there are a significant number of Iranians who dislike special treatment for sayyids, then you should be able to point us to a website, or cite a book, that would prove your case. Zora 04:03, 1 August 2005 (UTC)


 * One lil sidenote I thought is interesting is that 69.111.161.69 (where Anon is writing from) is an IP address provided by Pac Bell Internet Services, based in CA, US. I on the other hand am writing this from Iran. I was born and schooled here too. There is no govt law that legislates Sayyeds to receive privileges. People really dont care about such things here. The vehement anti-Arab anti-Turk sentiments are something mostly often found in the Persian diaspora of California. When I used to go to school in UCDavis, I personally remember the Persian club there even holding on-campus open dance parties on Ashura day. Such was their hatred for Islam and Arabs.


 * Oh, and btw, "a picture is worth a thousand words". :) --Zereshk 00:59, 2 August 2005 (UTC)


 * I am vexed by the racist anon poster who keeps racially attacking user Zereshk. Even though I dont agree with Zereshk on many issues, I see it necessary here to intervene and answer some of the dumb allegations of Mr 69.111.161.69 thrown at Zereshk:


 * 1. The Sahm-i Sādāt that Mr anonymous racist keeps referring to (and which he spelled wrong) is entitled for Sayyeds only because they are prohibited from receiving any Zakat, unlike non-Sayyeds who receive Zakat. Therefore there is no discrimination or special priviledges. This is verified by reading decree #1585 of Grand Ayatollah Makarim Shirazi, who has the final saying on Shi'a beliefs as a Marja.
 * 2. The govt of The Islamic Republic of Iran does not enforce laws that make paying Khums mandatory for anyone. People in Iran dont even know how to pray in a mosque anymore, let alone pay Khoms. --Mehrafshan 03:31, 2 August 2005 (UTC)


 * Harro. This Paul Chiu. Mr. Mehrafshan you seem so like Zeleshk.  You same pelson? And Mr. Zeleshk, you say Sahm-i Sādāt is offset by other mean for non-Sayyeds, but why is two class of Iranian?  Why is not same for all Iranian?  I be grad you educate me.  I am always interested Iran.  Thank you.  --Paul Chiu —Preceding unsigned comment added by 161.53.156.3 (talk • contribs) 05:47, 3 August 2005 (UTC)


 * Harro to you too. You seem so like Mr. Mansour. First you go learn manners and some Engwish. Then we talk about your education. Stop attacking Zeweshk.--147.97.138.210 17:46, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

Moved to Syed
As "Syed" is the primary transliteration of سید, I have moved the page. Zain 08:25, 4 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Actually, most if not all academic literature as well as pretty much all Arabic transliteration systems use sayyid. On that basis, I've moved the page back and standardised the spelling within the page.


 * You might be interested in Naming_conventions_%28Arabic%29. Palmiro | Talk 23:40, 7 November 2005 (UTC)


 * I moved the page AFTER reading that article on Arabic naming conventions. If you google "Syed" it will give about 3.3 million hits. "Sayyid" returns .8 million hits. Similarly, Yahoo gives "Syed" almost four million hits, while "Sayyid" returns .9 million hits. I don't see the problem, then, with "Syed." Most of the famous Syeds use "Syed" as the actual spelling, not "Sayyid". Finally, you rendered some of the links to the famous Syeds invalid when you changed the spellings of their names, namely Syed Kalbe Hussain, Syed Ali Naqi Naqvi, and Syed Aqeel al-Gharavi. Zain 14:27, 8 November 2005 (UTC)


 * OK, I've fixed the red links. I though I had got them in my original edits but I think I may have lost an edit due to a connection problem. Aqeel al-Gharavi doesn't seem to have an article under any title. Palmiro | Talk 14:49, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

I don't think Google should be the only criterion. This is an encyclopaedia, and should reflect usage by experts and in serious reference works about the topic. These are a better basis for deciding appropriate usage, in my view, than frequency on the Internet. All the examples I've seen of this kind lately are for "sayyid", and I've been reading a fair bit about both Lebanon and Iraq.

I also think that it's much easier for the average English speaker to come up with a roughly correct pronunciation from "sayyid" than from "syed", which looks weird - there are very few words with that sort of orthographical pattern in English, in fact I can't think of any of the top of my head.

What did you make of the page on Arabic naming conventions? Do you feel that in principle, we should seek consistency on the basis of accurate transliterations, as indicated there, or should we simply follow common usage, and if the latter, how do we define that?

Perhaps if you have strong views on these broader questions, you should contribute them to the Arabic naming conventions talk page. Palmiro | Talk 14:43, 8 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Unfortunately, the experts don't agree on a spelling either. I've seen "Syed", "Sayyid", and "Sayyed." Personally I think we should go with the name that is most frequently used. To me, it seems odd that an article named "Sayyid" links to mostly people who use the spelling "Syed." I thought the page on naming conventions stressed following common usage, as their first solution to spelling something is "primary transliteration" which depends on frequency of usage. They use a search engine to explain that solution.Zain 15:09, 8 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Looking more carefully over the Arabic naming conventions page, the current formulation certainly supports your approach. However, I'm not actually convinced by the results of the google search. Repeating it myself and confining it to English-language results, I find 654,000 pages for sayyid, and 2,660,000 for syed. However, 12 of the first 50 for sayyid seem to use "sayyid" to refer to "sayyids' or as a title, rather than as a personal name. It seems to me (but I can't really tell) that this proportion is lower among the hits for "syed". Palmiro | Talk 20:01, 11 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Syed is used by Pakistanis and Indians, just because you see more hits it is simply due to quantity not quality. "Sayyid" is an Arabic word and the Arabic transliteration is Sayyid, while the Urdu transliteration is Syed.  Primary and proper transliteration is the Arabic "Sayyid" not the Urdu "Syed". —Preceding unsigned comment added by Al-Zaidi (talk • contribs) 01:27, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Sayyid Qutb
Was this man a sayyid? The WP article on him doesn't say so, and my impression was that "sayyid" was his first name. I could be terribly wrong here, of course.

Somehow or other Husain al-Radi, who was undeniably a Sayyid and famous, got deleted in an earlier edit: I've added him back in. Palmiro | Talk 14:54, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

Removed list of sayyids
After much dithering, I finally removed the list, because claims to sayyid status are controversial, and we do not want to put Wikipedia in the position of endorsing claims. There are various Muslim authorities who do that. We could have a list of those authorities and, if they have websites and their own lists, link to those sites.

As I understand it, claims to sayyid status are particularily abundant in Iran, and regarded with derision by many non-Iranians. Rather than get into THAT argument, it's best just to drop the list. Zora 18:53, 12 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Probably a good idea. And yes, in Iraq as well there are thousands of them.Palmiro | Talk 22:38, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

Palmiro, you forgot to sign  Would you be able to get lists of the organizations that DO certify sayyid descent, so that we could put that list here? I think it would be extremely useful information. Zora 01:17, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

New table
I think it was an anon editor who had set up the list of sayyid family names so that the Farsi (or would Persian be better?) name was the default, and the Arabic was an afterthought. I don't think this is quite right, especially as the ancestors listed were Arabs.

BTW, I'm not an Arab. This is not a battle for ethnic superiority. It's just that someone has to come first in the list, and I figured it should be the version in the language used by those honored ancestors.

For ease in reading, I set the material up as a table. I'm not all that good at doing tables, so anyone who do a better job of formatting -- please do!

There is one big problem that I didn't notice until I started working on the table. In the previous state of things, the Hashimis were described as descendants of Muhammad's uncle, al-Abbas I think it was. So far as I know, the Hashemites of the Hijaz and Jordan trace their ancestry to Hassan ibn Ali, not to Abbas. It was the Abbasid dynasty who traced their ancestry to Abbas. I lumped all the names together, but I'm not at all sure that this is right. Zora 21:41, 13 December 2005 (UTC)


 * The Abbasids are Hashemites as well. Here is a basic tree:
 * Quraysh=Hashemites & Umayyads & other clans;
 * Hashemites= Sayyids (descendants of Muhammad), Abbasids (descendants of al-Abbas), and Talibids (descendants from Abu Talib;
 * Talibids= Alids (descendants of Ali) and Aqilids (descendants of Aqil. Al-Zaidi (talk) 21:04, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Further question re Allawi
Are Allawis or Alavis descendants of Ali by his wives other than Fatima? If that's so, I don't think that they're sayyids, since they aren't descended from Muhammad. Yes? No? Zora 23:09, 13 December 2005 (UTC)


 * There is an understanding that a Sayyid is anyone who decends from the tribe of Bani Hashim (i.e. who comes from the lineage of Hashim), therefore there isn't really a controversy regarding decendants of Ali ibn Abu Talib. The idea of Fatima az-Zahra being a integral component of Sayyid status is not correct, as can be seen in books which detail which people are entitled to "khums". Therefore the table on details a very constricted Shi'i cultural understanding of the title "Sayyid".


 * I think this issue also needs a more broader scope as interpretations of Sayyid status differ slightly from Sunni and Shi'i perspectives. Also issues relating to Hassani and Hussaini conflicts with each other during early and medieval Islamic History are not addressed, and furthermore the development of the Sharifs and the Sayyids, especially during Ottoman times


 * Hopefully this can be included or at least considered.


 * Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.40.147.225 (talk • contribs) 10:25, 10 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Alawi's or Ba'Alawi's (meaning Bani Alawi, or the tribe of Alawi) started from Al-Habib Muhammad bin Ali Ba'Alawi, the 13th Descendent of Sayyidina Hussein R.A. Please do your research before answering such questions. Please remember that this is the matter of Family Honor you are discussing, and the Prophets Sahabah, not a matter to be taken lightly. The Ba'alawi ancestry did not start from Sayyidina Ali R.A., although the Ba'Alawi's trace their lineage to Sayyidina Hussein R.A. whose parents were Sayyidina Ali R.A. and Sayyidatina Fatimatuzahra.--Simply.haddad (talk) 17:56, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

Arabic transliterations
Just a remark (in response to a rather harshly-phrased edit summary): in Arabic, the definite article is "al". This is always written with the Arabic letters "alif" and "lam". However, it is assimilated to certain consonants (the "sun letters", mainly dentals). When assimilated, the spelling with "lam" is maintained. People transliterating Arabic into English adopt two approaches to deal with this: 1. they write the English with the assimilation, e.g. al-Zaidi becomes az-Zaidi, reflecting the pronunciation or 2. they maintain the original Arabic spelling, e.g. al-Zaidi, reflecting the letters of the Arabic alphabet used.

Neither choice is any indication of ignorance regarding Arabic grammar. Palmiro | Talk 02:40, 22 December 2005 (UTC)


 * As someone who doesn't speak Arabic, I find it much easier to deal with al-XXX, because I know al is "the". When it's assimilated to the following consonant, I get confused, since I don't know the sound change rules. However, I can also see a point in following the pronunciation. You guys who know Arabic fight it out and let me know the result, OK? :) Zora 04:55, 22 December 2005 (UTC)


 * I don't care too much either, I'm just preemptively defending myself against a potential accusation of ignorance should I use "al" in future. And I see that the person who objects to it so much uses it in his own handle... ;) Palmiro | Talk 11:01, 22 December 2005 (UTC)


 * I think using the former format is more correct and maintains the grammar of the Arabic language. While I do understand that the majority of people viewing this site may be more confused by assimilating the sun letters and not the moon letters, it probably won't be that big of a deal. When I look at the page here on WP, I have a tendency to read it the way it should be pronounced, not spelt. Just my .02. Pepsidrinka 12:15, 22 December 2005 (UTC)


 * -- Transliteration question:
 * http://sify.com/connect/discussions/viewpostsflat.php?f=13446341&pid=21698
 * "Ashraf or better class Mohammedans are listed as Saiads (Sayeeds), Sheikhs, Pathans, Moghuls, Malliks, Mirzas" -- Saiad is another transliteration of "Sayyid"? -- 201.51.166.124 19:54, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Title/Last Name
I'm just curious -- I know of some people such as Syed Hamid Albar and Syed Hussein Alatas, whose last names don't appear on the article and don't resemble (in terms of pronunciation) anything on it. Why is this? Johnleemk | Talk 08:54, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Some people do not use those titles, but simply use "Syed." Zain 01:05, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

--Simply.haddad (talk) 17:59, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
 * The last names you see, such as Albar and Alatas are Family names from the Alawiyyen Clan or Ba'Alawi clan, which originated from Tarim, Hadhramaut. They are Sayyids, Syeds or Saids who trace their lineage from Sayyidina Hussein R.A.. If you would like to know more about their family names you can visit the Ba'Alawi.com database at www.baalawi.com. God Bless !

Al-Zaidi
We never seem to have engaged in any conversation on the talk page, just back and forth on each other's pages. I was VERY unhappy with your edits, but then got busy ... and now I come back and I think you have smoothed out the explanations so that they aren't as lumpy as they were. This is now a very useful article. I just thought I should do you justice :) Zora 09:14, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Noted Al-Zaidi

Wondering about patrilineality
so i can't seem to find anything on the web about this, but is there any requirement that siyyids have to be descended through the male line? obviously, siyyids are male, but i'm wondering if it matters whether they're descended from the Prophet on their mother's side or their father's side. anyone know of any sources on this? ~naseem —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.165.47.40 (talk • contribs) 01:36, 18 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Naseem: From what I know, and what seems to be standard practice in Malaysia and Singapore, Sayyid is a patrilineal title. You have to be descended through the male line to carry the title. My grandfather is a Sayyid, which makes my mother a Syarifah, but my siblings and I do not carry the title. Whereas my uncle's children (on my mother's side) ARE Sayyids and Syarifahs. I don't know why this isn't in the article, but hope that helps. :) Paperdoll51 04:10, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Abbreviation PBUH
I know muslims use this to show their respect, but I don't really think this abbreviation should be used in an encyclopedic text. It seems to me that it does not reflect a neutral point of view. Also, what does the '(as)' abbreviation mean? Does the same argument apply? Andersa 21:29, 30 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Both PBUH and (as) are removed on sight. Did they sneak into this article? Aargh. Zora 22:25, 30 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Seems user Sbaliz made the change Andersa 19:43, 1 May 2006 (UTC)


 * hehehe
 * zora... did the 'pbuh' or 'as' bother you? i dont think so...
 * as means alaihissalaam, means 'peace be upon him'
 * i think the use of pbuh or as in an encyclopedia is not a problem.....right? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 222.124.24.80 (talk • contribs) 03:37, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Al-Zaidi and anon
Al-Zaidi, you seem to have declared ownership of this article. You re-added the notes re (Arabic last name) and (Arabic title) that don't make any sense at all. They're just hanging out there, referring to nothing. You also turned the sentence re Alavis into a tautology. You have to let other people copyedit your prose!

Quotes re the Alavi issue would help. Quotes from both sides (are sayyids, aren't sayyids). If they aren't originally in English, give the original language and then a translation.

And anon -- you restored your confusing sentence re Pakistanis using syed in London. Yes? So what? So far as I could tell, all it meant was that people chose certain transliterations into English. If that's NOT what you meant, you'd better explain. I presume that in Arabic, Persian, and Urdu there is one preferred way to write sayyid, and that because the scripts are slightly different, the word may be different. I presume that a written standard co-exists with a variety of spoken forms -- that is colloquial Arabics, Persian and Urdu dialects. I also know that different people make different choices as to how to transliterate Arabic, Persian, and Urdu into Roman letters. I also understand that when people migrate from a Muslim-majority country into various Western countries, they carry with them their language and their pronunciation of sayyid. So, which of these is the point you're trying to make? Or is it something completely different? Zora 01:38, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Al-Zaid, you have deleted half of my note about the used Syyedina by Bohras i.e.


 * Dawoodi Bohra use the title "Syyedina" for their Da'i al-Mutlaq (Spiritual leader of the Bohra community). Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin the current Da'i, per Bohra history, is a descendant of King Motiram of Gujrat who got converted to Islam and was awarded this duty by the Imam

You have not given the reason for this erasure. Are you disputing that Syedna Burhanuddin is a descendant of the converted Gujrati Hindu king? I have heard it from my Dawoodi Bohra friends and read in their books. Correct me with references if I am wrong. If you are disputing that per their faith the Da'i is appointed by the "Ghaib Imam", then correct me with reference as I heard/read this from Dawoodi Bohras themselves.

If you are disputing their faith, I am afraid we need to reinclude this. Just because I am a Sufi Sunni Muslim, it does not mean I should erase a Bohri Ismaili Shia faith from an encyclopedia. Encyclopedia is supposed to be secular. Hassanfarooqi 15:37, 15 November 2006 (UTC)


 * They are not the article. the term "sayyid" is the article. Al-Zaidi


 * Absolutely. The term "Sayyid" is the article and so its other uses, and I am adding the fact that Bohris use the word Syyedina for their Da'o who is not a descendant of Hasanain. Hassanfarooqi 20:31, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Dear Participants on this talk page: "Sayyid" is simply a formal, polite term in Arabic meaning "sire" or "mister" - and is applied to all (males) regarded as worthy of respect, which includes the descendants of Mohammad; and its colloquial pronounciation remains "Sayyid" whether it is spelt "Sayyid", "Syed" or "Sayed". Honestly, the needless argument and fuss in this regard by youngsters, albeit intelligent, but lacking in experience - makes me smile. Use your energies on investigating things more worthy of them! N.B: Because "Syed" means "mister", I often think of these guys as "The Mister Men", the famous British cartoon film characters....the subject of Syeds and of their importance seem like those characters to me in more ways than one... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.186.142.5 (talk) 17:48, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Female Titles?
This article lacks the explanation of the female version of the honorific title (Syarifah/Sharifah). I can't find an explanation of Syarifah anywhere on Wikipedia, so I don't think there is another article or stub explaining the female version (unless I am overlooking it completely, which is possible). This seems rather unfair: at the very least, 'Syarifah' deserves its own stub, especially if the 'Sayyid' has a whole article about it. For now, I'm going to add a sentence about Syarifahs into this article; let me know if anyone has any other suggestions. Paperdoll51 04:12, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Syeda is the female version of Syed. BhaiSaab talk 18:03, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Copyedit
I gave the article a light once-over. I think that the only major change I made was removing some Arabic words from a list of terms likely to be confused with sayyid. I don't think I've ever seen shahid confused with sayyid -- though I'll change my mind if given an example. Zora 19:00, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Actually I saw this confusion a lot during my brief stay in Saudi Arabia. The Sayyids of South Asia spell it Syed and that is what is written on their passport. When Saudies translated it in Arabic, they translated it not as Sai'yid but as Saeed. Probably because they don't have/don't like the title Sayyid due to the political situation there. They also dont like the name "Ameer" and "Malick" which is spelled "Amir" and "Malik" in South Asia. Saudies translate it as "Aamir" and "Maalik" as these titles are reserved for the Royal Family and the King respectively. Another South Asian they don't like (and please dont mind my slight vulgarity here) is "Nake" (pious) as "Nake" in Saudi Arbia means sexual intercourse. They are very offended to see names like "Nake Mohammed" (trust me I am not making this one up). Hassanfarooqi 20:28, 12 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Ah, but Saeed/Sayyid is the confusion that I did keep. The one I removed was the claim that shahid (martyr) and sayyid are confused. That's a problem I've never seen. (Unless it's a confusion current among uneducated American soldiers in the Middle East, the sort who call all the local inhabitants "hajjis".) Let me know if you do find an example of the shahid/sayyid confusion and we can reinstate it.


 * Saudi reactions to South Asian names ... well, there's so much ELSE that they don't like about South Asians, whom they seem to consider inferior and impure Muslims ... arrgh, I feel a rant looming. Better shut up and do something useful :) Zora 21:28, 12 December 2006 (UTC)


 * As for the Shahid/Sayyid confusion, some African's pronounciation of "S" and "Sh" is very fine. So Sayyid can very easily be pronounced Shaheed by them.  For example my Gambian boss has trouble making S distinct from Sh.  When I told him not to worry and famous adhan caller Bilal is also reported to have had this problem, he was very relieved.


 * Hajji is sometimes an honorific title. In South Asia and Central Asia, a pious person was assumed to be a Hajji as the piety came only after one gave up his material life (i.e. retired from his job) and went to Hajj.  Also, during Hajj season the Saudi authorities (e.g. cops) refer to all non-Saudies as Hajji as it works two fold.  First the guy becomes happy and calms down, second he becomes attentive and follows the request of the cop.  Maybe someone adviced the American troops to refer to every Muslim as Hajji as a PR technique :)


 * As for Saudies not respecting South Asians, I am afraid we South Asians are to be blamed. The first batch of Pakistanies that went there were doctors and engineers and it was a different image.  Faisal's Pakistani adviser Dr. Anwar Ali had to do a lot about it.  Then started the scum including street cleaners, beggers, and con artists.  South Asians are not the only ones whose image got changed.  The Americans were viewed as open minded friendly people who were there to help Saudies get into the next century.  Europeans were looked as close minded racist, religous bigots.  Now the opposit is true.  Americans are seen as leeches sucking Saudi blood and Europeans as voice of reason from the West.  Things change dramatically, dont they? :) Hassanfarooqi 01:31, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Pronunciation of the name 'Syed'
Could someone please include at some point a short description of the proper pronunciation of the name 'Syed'? IPA would be wonderful, if you know how to use it. Thanks! Dveej (talk) 04:22, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

GILANI Sayyads of Masanian Sharif
We had many people adding their family histories. it became tiresome so we removed the entries and kept the article focused on quality rather than quantity. i made a link for user 198.36.32.138, if he/she would like to post their info there it would be helpful. Al-Zaidi (talk) 13:41, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Other Titles for Saadah
Perhaps a brief definition of Saadah would be nice. It is mentioned no where else in the article and is pretty scarce in the internet. --BoogaLouie (talk) 19:25, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * "Saadah" is the plural form of sayyid in Arabic as stated in the article. In non-Arabic languages people use pluralising forms for Sayyid e.g. Sayyid + "s" (plural suffix in english) = Sayyids instead of the Arabic plural form of Saadah.Al-Zaidi (talk) 21:13, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I missed (plural sādah سادة) when I did a "control F" search for Saadah. Would it be accurate to change the section title to Other Titles for Sayyid so the uninitated reader isn't confused? --BoogaLouie (talk) 22:26, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
 * No because it is not another title it is the same word just pluralised. What you are asking to do is equivalent to saying: "Kings" should be under Other Titles for King, doesn't make sense  to do that right :)Al-Zaidi (talk) 03:20, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
 * But this is an english language encyclopedia and most readers will not be familiary with arabic plurals. For example it is common even in scholarly english language books to use the word "ulemas" instead of ulema as the plural, even though that makes no sense as an arabic. --BoogaLouie (talk) 17:41, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Link to user page Masanian sharif
In the article was a link to User:Masanian sharif, which I removed now. Wiki-uk (talk) 04:44, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

Verifyability
Does anyone know how common it is for a claimant of the sayyed title to actually be descended from mohammad? Is it common for there to be impostors who take on the sayyed title for better social status? 174.18.2.207 (talk) 16:23, 6 August 2009 (UTC) __________________________________________________________________________________________________
 * Salaam and Greetings Brothers and Sisters (darod bar shoma anon [Your Majesty]


 * I enjoy reading the material you guys post up on WP, especially articles concerning Iran and
 * Her rich history (pre Islamic- Achaemenid & Sassanian) and Her post Islamic history (Persian Islamic Golden Age/Safavids). Now I came across anon's harsh words in the discussion section where he says "promoting your fake image, especially your uncultured fucking Qajar turks and your lizzard-munching arab ancestors" and I thought that this is inexcusable behaviour, especially for an Iranian. Anon you denote another human beings significance by associating him with hate crimes that occurred in the 7th century? and if by your standards, a turk or arab is uncultured and inferior, why is it that you have the tongue of a mongol (excuse my racism but I have to make a point here). Try to talk like a Persian instead of a Mongolian or a Turk (as so often Turks are made fun by Iranians because of their aggressive hard headed attitude). You seem to forget the teachings of Cyrus (to whom you revere and look up to so much), Cyrus fought battles against his enemies and was a real man, who after defeating his enemies, did not punish them and sometimes invited them to serve under his leadership. And the reality your going to have to face is that Iran is an Islamic nation, and a majority of people there are devoted followers of Islam [Shī‘atu Ali). 12-15 million Iranians visit Imam Reza's shrine each year. My only wish is that you one day visit and go see the beautiful, great shrines that your Iranian people have built in Mashad, Najaf, Karbala, (despite your hate and animosity towards something you dont understand, and cant see the function and role of in Iranian society and culture). Its a shame that with your attitude you will never be able to assimilate with your fellow brothers and sisters in the homeland, but instead choosing to associate yourself with a small group of aristocrats and monarchists
 * who most Iranians despise (as they may towards the current regime). However that does not imply that this current regime is the same that emerged in 1979 which sought greater political freedoms and rights (Borujerdi, Dr. Shariati who Iranians OVERWHELMINGLY LOVE as well as Ayatollah Taleqani, Hassan Modarres, Grand Ayatollah Shariatmadari, Grand Ayatollah Montazeri,Mostafa Chamran, etc). (SAVAKs back then still makes basijis today look like a bunch of girls).  Excuse me going on a rant, its just to easy to address these pro pahlavi radicals, there in the same loop as the radical mullahs, their ideology of hate and blame is one and in the same, both irrational and unreasonable to a compassionate caring person who treats others with dignity and humility. Ill end this with some quotes I thought maybe fit the occasion. Anyways thanks for all your hard work guys, and keep it up!


 * If you hate a person, you hate something in him that is part of yourself. What isn't part of ourselves doesn't disturb us. Hermann Hesse


 * History does not kill. Religion does not rape women, the purity of blood does not destroy buildings and institutions do not fail. Only individuals do those things.


 * Human beings are members of a whole, In creation of one essence and soul. If one member is afflicted with pain, Other members uneasy will remain. If you have no sympathy for human pain, The name of human you cannot retain. Saadi سعدی


 * alaykumSalaam!
 * Daste e Ali be hamrot

This wikipage needs cleaning up!
Epecially the section on Iraqi seyyeds from Iranian origin. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.80.104.208 (talk) 09:18, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

Ibn Battutah on the usage of 'Sayyid' in India
Ibn Battutah had the following to say on the usage of sayyid in India: Then one of the officers said to me in Arabic, "What do you say, ya sayyidi?" (The people of that country never address an Arab except by the title of sayyid, and it is by this title that the Sultan himself addresses, out of respect for the Arabs.) Intothefire (talk) 08:33, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Khawaja Syyids
There are a few things that can be added to this page that I can add to this page Or If you think is best Then you can add it, The Information is as follows.

"Some Syeds also Use Khwaja as their title i.e the syeds who are descendants of syed Chishti sufis of South asia their families live in "New-Delhi"(india) "Kashmir"(India) "Uttar pradesh"(India) and many parts Of Pakistan"

I know it because I have studied this topic and Khwaja Moinuddin chishti and many other chishti and naqshbandi Khawaja sufis are sayyids. and their descendants use the family name Khawaja. Most of them don't use sayyid family name because they don't think that it is important.

According to the Islamic beliefs no one is superrior to other and all are equal.

14:56, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. While I know that much of this page is currently unsourced, there's no reason to add more unsourced info. If you do have reliable sources to support that information, please make a new request with that source. Thanks. [[User:Qwyrxian|Qwyrxian (talk) 08:44, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

'''The khawajas of Kashmir have nothing to do with syeds, they are part of Butt clan of kashmir. khawaja was just a title bestowed by the mughal rulers of kashmir to their local office holders in kashmir, the kashmiri people use khawaja only as a title and nothing else, their actuals kashmiri castes are mostly part of greater Butt (indigenous clans) community of kashmir and same diasphora is found in punjab pakistan essentially as part of Butt community. kashmiris are racially and culturally different than people of india so the norms of india have no relevance in the case of kashmir.'''

Special dark blue keffiyeh worn the Marsh Arab sayyids
According to Gavin Young (Return to the Marshes, 1977 [1978:15–16]), the Marsh Arab sayyids distinguished themselves from the ordinary locals by way of a dark blue keffiyeh. As the article's pretty well-organized (though poorly sourced and with no section on Iraqi sayyids), I'm hesitant to stick in the info where it wouldn't be appropriate. But it's certainly something to consider incorporating into the article. The relevant passages come from page 15:
 * Others followed Falih and took my hand: one or two stooped old men with grey, stubbly beards (one irregularly dyed black), a sallow-faced sayyid (one of many venerated men accepted by the Muslims in these parts as descendants of the Prophet Mohammed), some smooth-cheeked youngsters who seemed from their gold-braided cloaks to be specially related to the sheikh, and several muscular and bandoliered retainers with bolt-action rifles who squeezed my hand solemnly and painfully in strong, rough palms.

And from page 16:
 * On the right bank ahead I saw another great reed mudhif (guest-house) and people, as at Falih's, moving out of its shadowy, arched doorway to watch us approach. There was a difference here for nearly all of them wore dark blue kefiyahs (headcloths) instead of the customary black and white check ones. By that sign we could tell that they were sayyids, like the sallow-faced man at Falih's.—Biosketch (talk) 15:45, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Untitled
One of the important aspect of the geneology, which is ignored is the fact that the RED Hair`s runs in the Holy family of the Prophet Muhammad. Just like the true decendants of the Abrahams, the red hairs comes quit often in Quresh, particularly the Alvy`s & Sadaat of central asian arabs of Afghanistan. Great name inclueds the ICON`s of the Modern sofism in India; this inclueds.....Ali hajvery, Chisti Ajmery, Nizamdine Oliya, and the line goes to god knows Bukhari SADAAT and their Close ALVY`s of the same area of KHRASAAn BUZRG in differen times, right after mahmood the Firt sultan of muslim world.....who eastablished his supremecy with out disturbing the rule of the SO- Called Arab khalifa of Baghdad.......The Sadaat and Alvy dynamics have had played leading role in this context and the after words the history is the proof of their social affect which creating a base for demographic change as the PUNJAB`s JAAT have accepted the new culture .....which paved the way of the rule of muslims over Delhi sultanate. Time and date era and economics must be seen with socio-religio-political dynamic paradignm aspect......History speaks it self as there is majore role of the sufis for creating a nation with in a nation in India. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.171.149.109 (talk) 01:39, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

Correct vowel pronounciation
We badly need IPA for this word. So far what I have learned tell me that mispronunciation of a vowel in Arabic language is the difference between life and death while mispronunciation of a vowel in Persian possibly goes completely unnoticed or completely disregarded. For the time being I don't care about Persian of other languages; I just don't want to die if I ever traveled to Arabic countries.

Fleet Command (talk) 22:47, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

Revert wars
Hi, gang. The revert wars need to stop. There's a lot of material that users are taking out and restoring, and none of it seems to be sourced. Because it is a source of contention but lacks sources, it needs to be removed until it is verified using inline citations to reliable sources. Please do not restore the material otherwise. Thanks. — Bdb484 (talk) 22:30, 1 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Now that the article is mostly clean, I have started to restore section and pieces for whom I can get some verifiable references.-- Sayed Mohammad Faiz Haider t c s 08:52, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

Name of Idris in Chart
The reason cited for removing the title for the descendants of Idris ibn Abdallah was that they were just a subline of Imam Hasan ibn Ali.

I find this to be inconsistent with rest of the lines included in the Chart: after all, descendants of Imam Musa al-Kadhim could refer to them selves as "Al-Hussaini" since Imam Husayn ibn Ali was an antecedent to Musa al-Kadhim.

If no one disagrees with this reasoning, I'll add the titles.

(Yster76) 19:35, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Sayyid
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Sayyid's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "ReferenceB": From Mughal tribe: Pehchan, Detail genealogy of chughtai mughal tribe residing in a small village Langrewali,  sialkot, By Muhammad Aslam Mughal From Ottoman Empire:  From Ghosi tribe: Marginal Muslim Communities in India edited by M.K.A Siddiqui pages 295-305 From Bahrain: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-14541053 From Ranghar: Tribes and Castes of the Northwestern Provinces and Oudh by William Crooke Government of India Press 1891 From Meo: Against History, against state: counterperspectives from the margins by Shail Mayaram. <li>From Philippines: Joaquin, Nick. A Question of Heroes.</li> <li>From Mirasi: Kinship, honour and money in rural Pakistan : subsistence economy and the effects of international migration by Alain Lefebvre ISBN/ISSN 0-7007-0984-3</li> <li>From Punjab, Pakistan: http://punjabgovt.nic.in/punjabataglance/SomeFacts.htm</li> <li>From Mazhabi: http://www.thesikhencyclopedia.com/sikh-political-figures/kala-singh.html</li> <li>From Lodi dynasty: D.R. SarDesai. India The Definitive History. (Colorado: Westview Press, 2008), 163.</li> <li>From Bhatti Khanzada: Barabanki District : A Gazetteer Volume XLVII, District Gazetteers of the United Provinces edited by H Neville</li> <li>From Gujarat: P. 4 Shyamji Krishna Varma, the unknown patriot by Ganeshi Lal Verma, India. Ministry of Information and Broadcasting. Publications Division</li> <li>From Muslim Kayasths: Muslim Kayasthas of India by Jahanara KK Publications ISBN 81-675-6606-2 </li> <li>From India–Iran relations: ‘India and Iran: A Dialogue’, paper by Prof. Lokesh Chandra</li> <li>From Sayyid of Gujarat: Muslim Communities in Gujarat by Satish C Misra pages 117-122</li> </ul>

Reference named "ReferenceA":<ul> <li>From Mazhabi: Congressional Record, V. 147, Pt. 8, June 12, 2001 to June 25, 2001 p11493</li> <li>From Zamindara: A Gazetteer of Azamgarh District pages 93 to 94</li> <li>From Punjabi Rajputs: A Gazetteer of Rawalpindi District Part A 1907</li> <li>From Bhutta Rajputs: Glossary, p. 109</li> <li>From Punjabi people: Ethnologue. 15th edition (2005).</li> <li>From India–Iran relations: ‘Iran and India: Age old Friendship’ by Abdul Amir Jorfi, India Quarterly, October–December 1994</li> <li>From Hussein-Ali Montazeri: Iranian opposition protests show defiance</li> <li>From Mughal Empire: </li> <li>From Sindhi-Sipahi: The Castes of Marwar by Munshi Hardyal Singh page 43</li> <li>From Punjabi Saudagaran-e-Delhi: People of India Delhi K Singh editor</li> <li>From Ranghar: People of India: Uttar Pradesh XLII Part III edited by K Singh page 1197</li> <li>From Muslim Kayasths: People of India Uttar Pradesh page 1047</li> <li>From Saiqalgar: Marginal Muslim Communities in India edited by M.K.A Siddiqui pages 37-45</li> <li>From Bhatti Khanzada: Caste and Social Stratification Among Muslims edited by Imtiaz Ahmed page 212 Manohar 1978</li> <li>From Bhangu: Sir H.M.Elliot & Prof John Dowson, 1867 The History of India as told By Its Own Historians. The Muhammadan Period Vol 1, page 162</li> <li>From Muslim Halwai: People of India Uttar Pradesh Volume XLII Part Three by K S Singh page 1042 Manohar Publications</li> <li>From Kashmir: Luce dei Tantra, Tantrāloka, Abhinavagupta, Raniero Gnoli, page LXXVII</li> <li>From Chhaparband (Muslim): Marginal Muslim Communities in India edited by M.K Siddiqui pages 510-513</li> <li>From Ghosi tribe: People of India Uttar Pradesh Volume XLII Part two by K S Singh page 541 Manohar Publications</li> <li>From Muhammad Ahmad: Kapteijns, The Religious Background of the Mahdi</li> <li>From Gujarat: P. 67 An era of peace By Krishna Chandra Sagar</li> <li>From Mirasi: People of India Punjab Volume XXXVII edited by I.J.S Bansal and Swaran Singh pages 322 to 333 Manohar</li> <li>From Shaikh of Uttar Pradesh: People of India Uttar Pradesh Volume XLII Part Three edited by A Hasan & J C Das</li> <li>From Malayalam: Malayalam, R. E. Asher, T. C. Kumari, Routledge, ISBN 0-415-02242-8, 1997</li> <li>From Tribes of the Bar Region of the Punjab: Title:Karwan-e-Araian by Abdul Hamid Sabir</li> <li>From Bharsaiyan: Tribes and Castes of the North Western Provinces and Oudh by William Crooke page 20</li> <li>From Ottoman Empire: </li> <li>From Banjara (Muslim): </li> <li>From Muslim Tyagi: A Glossary of the Tribes & Castes of Punjab by H. A Rose</li> <li>From Bagh District: </li> <li>From Abdal (caste): Marginal Muslim Communities in India edited by M.K.A Siddiqui pages 344-356</li> <li>From Silawat: The Castes of Marwar by Munshi Hardyal Singh page 212</li> <li>From Punjabi language: Lambert M Surhone, Mariam T Tennoe, Susan F Henssonow:2012:Punjabi Dialects:Beta script publishing:6134873527, 9786134873529</li> <li>From Zaidpur: Shajraat-Taiyyabaat published genealogy of Saiyeds of Zaidpur Printed in 1916</li> <li>From Philippines: </li> <li>From Arain: Pakistan under Zia, 1977-1988, Shahid Javed Burki.</li> <li>From Tribes and clans of the Pothohar Plateau: Gazetteer of the Jhelum District, 1904, Punjab district gazetteers, Part A, at p. 86.</li> <li>From Khukhrain: The Shah-Namah of Fardusi translation by Alexander Rogers LPP Publication Page 370</li> <li>From Zayd ibn Ali: Alsayd Ibrahim Aldarsee Alhamzee'', Preface of Musnad Al-Imam Zaid bin Ali, Referencing:Biography of Imam Zaid bin Ali</li> <li>From Wattu: A Glossary of the tribes & castes of Punjab by H. A Rose</li> <li>From Pathans of Uttar Pradesh: People of India Uttar Pradesh Volume XLII Part Three edited by A Hasan & J C Das page 1139 to 1141 Manohar Publications</li> <li>From Meo: Resisting Regimes: Myth, Memory and the Shaping of a Muslim Identity by Shail Mayaram.</li> <li>From Sayyid of Gujarat: People of India Gujarat Volume XXI Part  Three edited by R.B Lal, P.B.S.V Padmanabham, G Krishnan & M Azeez Mohideen pages 1346-1351</li> <li>From Sayyid of Uttar Pradesh: People of India Uttar Pradesh Volume XLII Part Three edited by A Hasan & J C Das page 1246 to 1254 Manohar Publications</li> <li>From Singapore: Year Book of Statistics, Singapore. Singapore Tourism Board.</li> <li>From Shaikhzada: People of India Uttar Pradesh Volume XLII Part three by K S Singh Manohar publications page 1303</li> <li>From Gujarati Shaikh: People of India Gujarat Volume XXI Part  Three edited by R.B Lal, P.B.S.V Padmanabham, G Krishnan & M Azeez Mohideen pages 1278-1282</li> <li>From Qidwai: Caste and Social Stratification Among Muslims (Manohar, 1978), edited by Imtiaz Ahmed, p. 212.</li> <li>From Baluch (Uttar Pradesh): A Gazetteer of Lucknow District Volume XXXVII: Gazetteers of the United Provinces edited by H. R Neville</li> <li>From Central Asia: Encyclopædia Iranica, "CENTRAL ASIA: The Islamic period up to the Mongols", C. Edmund Bosworth: "In early Islamic times Persians tended to identify all the lands to the northeast of Khorasan and lying beyond the Oxus with the region of Turan, which in the Shahnama of Ferdowsi is regarded as the land allotted to Fereydun's son Tur. The denizens of Turan were held to include the Turks, in the first four centuries of Islam essentially those nomadizing beyond the Jaxartes, and behind them the Chinese (see Kowalski; Minorsky, "Turan"). Turan thus became both an ethnic and a diareeah term, but always containing ambiguities and contradictions, arising from the fact that all through Islamic times the lands immediately beyond the Oxus and along its lower reaches were the homes not of Turks but of Iranian peoples, such as the Sogdians and Khwarezmians."</li> <li>From Jhelum: Encyclopaedia of ancient Indian geography By Subodh Kapoor-page-3</li> <li>From Ruhollah Khomeini: "Khomeini bans broadcast music", New York Times, 24 July 1979</li> <li>From Mughal tribe: Hindustani Musalmans and Musalman of East Punjab by W Bourne page 35</li> <li>From Lodi dynasty: D.R. SarDesai. India The Definitive History. (Colorado: Westview Press, 2008), 146.</li> <li>From Garha: People of India Uttar Pradesh Volume XLII Part Two editor K S Singh Manohar 2005 page 511</li> <li>From Hajjam: People of India Uttar Pradesh Volume XLII Part Two by K S Singh page 1050</li> <li>From Muhammad al-Baqir: http://www.al-islam.org/kaaba14/8.htm#Some sayings of the Imam.</li> <li>From Manihar: People of India Uttar Pradesh Volume XLII Part Two by K S Singh page 936</li> </ul>

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 09:13, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

Semi-Protect
Can anyone semi-protect the Sayyid article, due to persistent vandalism. Sorry I do not know how to Semi-protect the article. Can someone please help out?. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Yazd786 (talk • contribs) 00:20, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

"Traditionally Shia/Sunni" sentence
I have removed the sentence about most Sayyids being traditionally Sunni or Shia. It seems like different editors keep wanting to go back and forth (probably based on which side they are on), and no one wants to provide a citation. Until someone can provide a reliable source one way or the other, it seems best to just remove the sentence.PohranicniStraze (talk) 16:56, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

Najeeb-ut-Tarfain
Shall we mention about Najeeb-ut-Tarfain--88.111.123.143 (talk) 21:53, 2 November 2013 (UTC)