Talk:Scarsdale, New York/Archive 1

Untitled
--Maerklin44 (talk) 17:38, 7 December 2008 (UTC) What is Harwood Court? There is a nice picture of it, inserted into the Neighborhoods section. A little googling suggests that it is a strip mall. A very, very nice one. Is there any more information on the building itself or the shops that make their home there?

Untitled

 * I don't have anything beyond my personal observations, so I can't put the material in the article. I don't think "strip mall" is appropriate, because although I don't know when Harwood Court was built, it is mentioned in a 1939 New York Times article. A quick search of the New York Times shows the first use of the phrase "strip mall" in an article occurred in 1986, i.e. the term was not used at the time the building was built. It is a substantial four-story building in what I guess you would have to call downtown Scarsdale, close to the train station, with retail shops on the ground floor and business offices on the upper floors. There was also an arcade running through the ground floor, with shops off of the arcade. It was a common location for professional offices of doctors, dentists, and lawyers.Dpbsmith (talk) 19:58, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

--67.182.220.211 (talk) 23:52, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Scarsdale Zip Code
Has there really been a push for non-Scarsdale 10583 residents to disassociate themselves with Scarsdale? Where I live (lower Garth Road) it seems nobody even knows it's technically Eastchester!
 * Nobody knows? Where the heck do you send property taxes?  Nelson Ricardo 17:23, Jun 14, 2005 (UTC)
 * I guess they know that Eastchester has some significance to them, but still honestly think their "town" is "Scarsdale".
 * I frankly doubt the accuracy of this part of the article. I'd almost be inclined to remove it unless someone can cite a good source, but have been holding back since I don't live in the area. Dpbsmith (talk) 18:53, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

Sat, Feb 25, 2006

This is my first time at Wikipedia, so I'm not sure HOW to anwer 1 question asked by other user. Somebody has asked if all residents of 10583 are served by Scarsdale Post Office. Well, I live in 10583 PO but pay taxes to (and my kids' school district is) Town of Eastchester, and I'm served by Wilmot Road Post Office (not even sure on which town that PO is, it's so close to the Town of New Rochelle). So the answer to the question is NO, not all residents of 10583 are served by Scarsdale PO; at least 2 POs are doing it.

Also, I think, a lot of residence of Garth Road are renters, so they most likely do not pay any property taxes.

Anyway, I hope this is the way on answering (or editing) Wikipedia

Sun, Feb 26, 2005

Nobody has said that I did not do it right, so here more info regarding request for citation on the teenage sex tape: http://www.wnbc.com/education/3457711/detail.html

"Get Back" reference
I'm snipping this. If someone has a good verifiable reference for it they can put it back (citing that reference).


 * Even though the town is not mentioned in the song “Get Back”, JoJo lived in Edgemont a part of Scarsdale New York and that is where he met Linda Eastman who lived in Scarsdale and went to Scarsdale High School and they eventually got married. Paul McCartney then wrote this song telling JoJo to get back from his girl.

According to the Linda McCartney Centre,


 * Linda's first husband was Mel who she met while attending college at the University of Arizona in Tucson. The marriage was short-lived and it produced a daughter named Heather. (Mel tragically committed suicide in March 2000 at the age of 62.) Linda and Mel's divorce was reportedly amicable...

The lyrics to "Get Back" refer to Tucson as well:


 * Jojo left his home in Tucson, Arizona
 * For some California grass.

This should not be resomeone has evidence that they actually met in Scarsdale, rather than Tucson. Dpbsmith (talk) 18:52, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

Video games
In 50 cent Bulletproof Eminem's character mentions Scarsdale as the location where a witness is being held.

Scarsdale zip code
I'm retaining the list of neighborhoods in the Scarsdale zip code that are outside Scarsdale, but moving it to a separate section.

If it is true that the Scarsdale zip code confers prestige, increases real estate values, and creates a vague impression that these neighborhoods share Scarsdale's characteristics, it should not be hard to find verifiable source citations that say so. I'll look for some myself. Until somene can find some, I don't think that the article should contain opinions that rest solely on the authority of an editor.

In particular, the assertion that
 * Though this is intended to drive up real estate values in less prestigious locales (allowing people who technically live just outside Scarsdale to still claim Scarsdale residence)...

needs some kind of verifiable support.

Incidentally: how are letters to the these neighborhoods addressed? That is, does the Scarsdale post office serve Greendale, Wilmot, etc? If so, I can see how the postal zone would confer a Scarsdale aura on them. If not, if it's just a zip code, well, I find it hard to believe that the zip code itself is all that prestigious. Dpbsmith (talk) 14:33, 5 December 2005 (UTC)


 * 90210? Nelson Ricardo 01:33, 6 December 2005 (UTC)


 * I said that I didn't believe "the" zip code, 10583 is prestigious. 90210 is familiar, but I don't think many other zip codes are. And, frankly, I don't think many people knew what 90210 was until the television program&mdash;whose title, significantly, is not simply "90210," but Beverly Hills 90210. Why? Because when the program started, not that many people knew what 90210 was.


 * There is no television program about "10583."


 * I tried some random Googling on things like "10583 prestige" and didn't come up with anything. A Google Groups (USENET) search on "10583" turns up only some isolated hits, only to postal addresses with that Zip code. Ditto a search on 10583 in Google Books turns up only references to Scarsdale. I couldn't find any evidence that being in the 10583 Zip code confers any cachet on a neighborhood. No chatter along the lines of "Those snobs in Greendale think they're hot stuff because there in Scarsdale's zip code," or anything like that. I also did an online search of The New York Times, very hard because there were lots of irrelevant hits, but I didn't see any articles about "Zip code controversy" or "Neighborhoods seek 10583 zip code" or "10583 increases real estate values."


 * As I say, if the effect is real, it shouldn't be hard to cite some verifiable sources that say something relevant. I'm quite willing to see this material put back when and if someone finds some. I looked myself, and I couldn't. Dpbsmith (talk) 02:44, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

I wrote the Scarsdale zip code section, and everything provided was based on anecdotal evidence from living in "Scarsdale" for most of my childhood and to the present. Trust me on this one, the only way you would know about these zip code controversies is if you grew up here. If you drive along Central Avenue in the Edgemont hamlet of Greenburgh, for example, which is in the Scarsdale 10583 zip code, EVERY SINGLE STORE is "Scarsdale this" and "Scarsdale that", even though Edgemont looks and feels a lot more like other parts of Greenburgh in other zip codes like 10530, 10595, etc. than like the actual Village of Scarsdale. Also, the zip code controversy is not such a trivial manner. Sometimes I seriously feel like punching someone in the face when they say I live in Scarsdale! Wizard1022 06:23, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, it's not the ZIP code per se that causes prestige. It is Scarsdale that is prestigious.  If you are in the Scarsdale ZIP code but outside the municipality, you can choose to use "Scarsdale" as your address.  The idea is not wrong, but it just needs to be clear.  (A similar situation nearby: A chunk of Yonkers is in the Bronxville ZIP code, and many businesses and residents in that section of Yonkers, including Sarah Lawrence College, use Bronxville as their address.  Never mind that this can help mail-order sales tax confusion and fraud.) Nelson Ricardo 11:38, 6 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Wizard1022, I "trust you" on what you say about stores in Greenburgh using the name Scarsdale. However, material in the main article name space is subject to verifiability and citing sources, not on trusting contributors. It would be perfectly appropriate to say something about stores near Scarsdale using the Scarsdale name if those stores can be verified e.g in an online Yellow Pages lookup, or something like that. If there's a local newspaper that has written stories about it they could be cited. Surely some editorial writer or letter writer or humor columnist has said something about this. Maybe you could find some real estate listings for houses that are actually in Edgemont that use the name Scarsdale.


 * What you wrote goes further than that, however. You said that the 10583 zip code had been artificially extended in order to drive up real estate prices. Well, the exact words were:


 * Scarsdale's zip code of 10583 is infamous for spilling over into nearly every other city, town, or village on its borders. Though this is intended to drive up real estate values in less prestigious locales (allowing people who technically live just outside Scarsdale to still claim Scarsdale residence).


 * That would require a lot of verification.


 * We could conduct a survey and publish it online or even in The Cutting Edge, the unofficial school newspaper.Tom 10:57, 10 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Cool Idea. But seriously The Cutting Edge (Scarsdale High School's satiric all entries accepted newspaper) website and hard copy are both no longer credible sources.  Maroon (Scarsdale High School’s actual course required newspaper ) hard copy could pass though.--E-Bod 18:48, 11 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Do people who live in Edgemont really say that they live in Scarsdale? I doubt it. That's quite different from a business using Scarsdale in its name. I've heard that Boston-area realtors use the phrase "on the Wellesley line" to describe houses that are not in Wellesley, but close to its borders, and it wouldn't surprise me if there were a similar phrase used near Scarsdale, but that's RE puffery. I think very few people would "claim Scarsdale residence" if they weren't actually in Scarsdale. The schools their kids attend would be a dead giveaway.


 * Second, I have no idea how zip codes are assigned by the Postal Service but if neighboring towns had somehow influenced the USPS to incorporate parts of them in the Scarsdale zip code, that would a) be very interesting, but b) truly require verifiable evidence.


 * There's a factual question I asked that you haven't answered. Is all of 10583 served by the Scarsdale post office? That is, do people living in these neighborhoods receive mail addressed to "Scarsdale, NY, 10583?"


 * Anyway, IMHO Wikipedia policy requires your finding a verifiable source for this, something beyond your personal testimonny. Dpbsmith (talk) 13:53, 6 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Here's something relevant, but not good enough to cite: http://www.freshyarn.com/1/printer_ready/print_ford_helen.htm . freshyarn is "an online salon for personal essays." One Katie Ford, in a not-very-well-written essay states that "In my Italian-American town of Eastchester, New York - population 147,000 and two Democrats, girls played a more traditional role - they were sluts. In rabbit coats and platforms. By the way we were Scarsdale Post Office so I didn't even know we lived in Eastchester until my first days at Eastchester Junior High School." So it would seem that everyone in 10583 does have a Scarsdale mailing address. Dpbsmith (talk) 16:24, 6 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Um, Eastchester, New York has nowhere near that many people. Try http://zip4.usps.com/zip4/citytown_zip.jsp for some interesting results. Nelson Ricardo 17:03, 6 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Here's something better: http://www.homes101.net/new-york-realtors/edgemont-c15543/ "Edgemont is a portion of the unincorporated area of the Town of Greenburgh. There are approximately 2,800 households in the area. The majority of Edgemont residents have a Scarsdale post office address." I think I'll take that as confirmation that all addresses in 10583 are served by the Scardale post office and thus have a "Scarsdale, NY 10583" mailing address. Dpbsmith (talk) 16:55, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Religious composition
I'm removing the recently added phrase "with a large Jewish population" from the sentence


 * Scarsdale is both a town and village in Westchester County, New York, USA with a large Jewish population. As of the 2000 census, its population was 17,823.

for three reasons. First, it does not cite a source. Second, it is not appropriate for the lead sentence. Third, it has no context and it is not clear why the "large" Jewish population is of interest. A well-sourced paragraph or table detailing the breakdown of Scarsdale's population by faith would be perfectly appropriate, and should probably go in the "demographic" section.

Parenthetically, in a suburb of New York City, the presence of an active Quaker meeting is probably more unusual and hence more worthy of note than the presence of Jews. I believe Christian Scientists and Mormons are also represented. Dpbsmith (talk) 15:17, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Unsourced items
These items are unsourced and their wording makes them sound pretty dubious, so I'm moving them here. Do not reinsert without good source citations. As always, urban legends and local tales need not be true, but a published source saying that they exist as legends must be cited. Dpbsmith (talk) 23:13, 7 October 2006 (UTC)


 * The Scarsdale Glory Hole-located in Butler Woods, the Scarsdale Glory Hole is said to bring good luck to those who toss a silver dollar into it's depths. It was named in the nineteen thirties, when the term 'glory hole' apparently carried a different connotaion than the one in use today. The unfortunate association of the term 'glory hole' with sexual acts has lead the Scarsdale Glory Hole to wane in popularity steadily since the 1970s to the point that it is considered by many to be no more than an urban legend told to entertain immature teens.


 * The Haunted House in Edgewood-located on Edgewood Road in the eponymous neighborhood, this house has been abandoned since the late 80's. Said to be haunted by the ghost of a murdered orphan, the house seems to be stuck in the past, with ancient cars parked in the driveway and a Miami Vice poster visible on the kitchen wall through the back window.


 * The Gates of Hell-it is said that the Gates of Hell lies somewhere beneath the Scarsdale Municipal Pool. This is most likely false, but many a resident will tell you that a secret tunnel leads from the surace to a huge stone gate marked with the inscription "Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter Here." This is of course the inscription which in Dante's The Inferno marked the gates of hell.


 * Isn't Scarsdale itself actually Hell?

History
Deep in the historic background of Scarsdale is a romantic twist of fate. In 1666 during Charles the Second's reign, a sixth son Caleb was born in the family of Mayor Heathcote of Chesterfield in the Hundred of Scarsdale, Derbyshire, England. Some twenty-six years later, after his intended wife had transferred her affections to one of his older brothers, a disappointed Caleb Heathcote took his patrimony and set sail for New York. Prospering in trade, he soon became one of the leading men of the colony and began to buy up land in Westchester. At the end of the century he purchased from Ann Richbell the claims her husband had established to land running nine miles back from Long Island Sound to the Bronx River and averaging two miles in width. Shortly thereafter he purchased the Fox Meadow from the Indian chiefs, among whom was Cohawney, and then acquired a bit more land to the south along the Bronx River, rounding out his holdings to the town line in Eastchester. In 1701 Caleb, who had become influential in the government of the province, had these lands elevated into a royal manor. He named the area Scarsdale after his ancestral home. Since the English name meant "dale of scars or rocks," it was appropriate here as it was there. Scarsdale was one of nine royal manors of New York, six of which were in Westchester County. The first population count taken in 1712 listed 12 people, seven of whom were slaves. After Caleb's death in 1721, the land was inherited by his two daughters. In 1774 the manor was broken up, and the tenants became the proprietors. Scarsdale became a town by the law of March 7, 1788. During the American Revolution, both the Continental and British armies passed through parts of Scarsdale. After a brief battle near the junction of modern Mamaroneck and Garden Roads, General Sir William Howe spent some time in the Griffen farmhouse. The house still stands, identified by a bronze marker. Tradition has it that the Varian house, now known as Wayside, was the scene of a fracas when Tory marauders tried to find the family cow which had been locked in the house. A generation later James Fenimore Cooper, who had married a great grand-daughter of Caleb Heathcote and at that time lived on the Angevine Farm on Mamaroneck Road, gave the story of those turbulent days a permanent place in literature. Deeply impressed with reminiscent tales he had heard from the aged John Jay, Cooper, while living in Scarsdale, wrote The Spy, which became the first American novel. At the time of the first federal census in 1790, Scarsdale's six and one-half square miles held 281 inhabitants. Fifty years later that figure had declined slightly so that in 1840 Scarsdale had 255 residents, and all but four of its adult men worked as farmers or farm workers. Lacking access to navigable waterways, Scarsdale fell behind the towns that bordered Long Island Sound and the Hudson River. The town's fortunes improved, however, after 1846 when the New York and Harlem Railroad (later a division of the New York Central) began service in the Bronx River Valley. As New York City grew and became more crowded, more and more residents of the city who could afford the cost of commuting began to consider living elsewhere. During this period of the 1850s Scarsdale included a post office, a livery, a school, and two churches, in addition to the all-important stop on the railroad. Although several houses were located near the train station, there were no stores, no street lamps, and no paved streets. To the east and north of the station stood the community's farms along with the estates of a few wealthy residents who had moved into the suburbs. It was the Arthur Suburban Home Company that initiated the change from a rural town to a residential suburb. In 1891 it purchased a 150-acre farm and turned it into a row of one-family houses. Covenants included in every sale prevented the use of any lot for commerce. By 1900, the population stood at 885, and Scarsdale, as we know it, began to appear. In 1904, the Heathcote Association, the first Neighborhood Association, and the Town Club, the predecessor of the Town and Village Civic Club, were formed.

The Scarsdale Woman's Club was organized in 1918 and one year later ('''til here see https://www.scarsdalehistoricalsociety.org/brief-history-of-scarsdale) bought (https://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/27/nyregion/nyregionspecial2/27scarsdalewe.html) and (?CopyVio? cont'd) began publishing The Scarsdale Inquirer. For the next forty years this prize winning paper was owned, managed and staffed by women. In 1921 the Scarsdale League of Women Voters was formed and began meeting as part of the Public Affairs committee of the Scarsdale Woman's Club. The Town's first store opened in 1912 at the corner of Popham and Garth Roads. Scarsdale High School and Greenacres Elementary School were built in 1917, Edgewood in 1918. In order to prevent Greenacres from being annexed by White Plains, Scarsdale was incorporated as a Village in 1915. (A village may only be annexed by a vote of its citizens; the boundaries of a Town may be changed by the State Legislature.) The population then was almost 3,000. The Twenties saw a building boom that tripled the population by the end of the decade to 9,690. The Bronx River Parkway, the first parkway in the country, was opened in 1924. New stores and banks opened on East Parkway and Popham Roads. Fox Meadow and Crane-Berkley were developed. Heathcote's "Five Corners" thrived, although the New York, Westchester and Boston Railroad, around which it had been built, did not survive. Fox Meadow Elementary School was built in 1928. Many of the Tudor-style houses and business fronts date from this period. In 1922 the Village Board adopted a Village-wide zoning plan, the first zoning law passed in New York State by a suburban community. Court challenges to the code have been met successfully, and Scarsdale has remained primarily a residential community of single-family detached houses. Another building boom occurred after World War II. The area that experienced the greatest development was Quaker Ridge, which derived its name from its early Quaker settlers. Quaker Ridge Elementary School opened in 1947, Heathcote in 1953 and the Junior High School (now the Middle School) in 1956. The Village and School Districts purchased land for both public use and open space. Major strides in community recreation included public tennis and paddle courts, public day camps, a swimming pool complex and a vast array of programs. Now the Village appears to have entered a new era of relative population stability as a result of the almost complete development of its privately owned land. Scardale's 1990 population was approximately 17,000. Scarsdale residents have enjoyed success in many fields. James Fenimore Cooper, mentioned earlier, wrote The Spy. Daniel D. Tompkins, five times Governor of New York(1807-1815) and twice Vice President of the United States, was born here. Other Scarsdale residents include distinguished scholars and artists, university presidents, a Nobel prize winner, state senators, members of Presidential cabinets, an astronaut, a New York State Commissioner of Education and presidents of large corporations. Many residents have given and continue to give their time and talents to serve Scarsdale by accepting positions as Mayor, Village and School Board members and as leaders of over 80 organizations.


 * Scarsdale Inquirer began c. 1901-1902; see https://www.nytimes.com/1968/10/19/archives/humphrey-ticket-endorsed-by-the-scarsdale-inquirer.html Pi314m (talk) 01:42, 10 May 2021 (UTC)

Neighborhoods?
I have never heard of the Cotswald neighborhood--where is it located? Further, the article implies that each of the neighborhoods on this list is served by an elementary school, but no such school exists. If there is such a neighborhood, the section should at least be reworded to clarify that there are five elementary schools and six neighborhoods with Cotswald being the one that is not served by a separate school.Schn0529 (talk) 16:04, 24 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Cotswald is located in Edgemont, which is located in Greenburgh. While it is in the Scarsdale PO it is not in the village/town of Scarsdale.  Cotswald should not be listed under neighborhoods in Scarsdale. FearNotMan (talk) 21:04, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Top Money-Earning Towns
Does anyone know why the following sentence was removed?

With a median household income of $219,317, Scarsdale is second on Money Magazine's 25 top-earning towns.[2]

This is arguably one of the defining characteristics of the town, and certainly an interesting enough fact to warrant it being in the first few paragraphs. I've checked the source and the citation was accurate.Schn0529 (talk) 16:17, 24 January 2008 (UTC)


 * As long as it is accurate I see no problem with it, and it probably should be included. If someone has a problem with it, at the very least it should mention the Money Magazine honor without the income number. FearNotMan (talk) 18:10, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Census Data
I have watched this number repeated changed between 17k and 54k. Given the large discepancy I looked it up. According to census.gov in 2000 the population was 17,823 for Scarsdale village. FearNotMan (talk) 19:27, 25 January 2008 (UTC)


 * http://censtats.census.gov/data/NY/1603665431.pdf

I think the descrepancy arises because the town of scarsdale and village of scarsdale--with a (shared) population of 17k--are coterminus; it seems that some assume that these are two separate populations, which would double the figure. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.215.231.191 (talk) 06:54, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Rock of Perth, "Cooper's History," "Downes Press"
Some quick checking, e.g. a search of the Boston Public Library catalog online, a check of the used bookseller www.abebooks.com online, a search for "Downes Press" Boston in Google on the Web and in Google Books, turns up no evidence of such a book or such a publisher. I'm afraid I want a better reference. I'm particularly troubled by not being able even to find the publisher.

Is there a typo in the name of the publisher or something like that?

What is the author's full name? Dpbsmith (talk) 20:58, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Notable Locations
I'm moving two items here for discussion. They should not be reinserted unless good references are provided.
 * Cemetery at St. James the Less Episcopal Church. In the crypt in this seminary is a secret room where southern slaves were hidden on their journey to Canada in the "Underground Railroad" which was active during the American Civil War.  Also in this cemetery are the remains of unknown slaves of the era.

Quick searching suggests that Quakers in Scarsdale may have participated in the Underground Railroad, but I couldn't find any confirmation of a role for St. James the Less.

Downes Press, Boston, Massachusetts, 1936
 * The Rock of Perth. Located in the original stone wall which surrounded a farm on the edge of the Fox Meadow neighborhood, the Rock of Perth was brought to America by Caleb Heathcote one of the early settlers of Scarsdale. This rock was taken from his ancestral home in England and placed in the wall.  The wall runs behind residences which face both Overhill Road and Lockwood Road. -	Excerpted from Cooper’s History of Lower Westchester County.

I could not find any evidence of such a publisher, let alone of such a book. Searches of online catalogs of big libraries, or the abebooks used book site, didn't turn up anything. And I couldn't find anything confirming that Overhill Road and Lockwood Road are in the Fox Meadow neighborhood. Dpbsmith (talk) 16:09, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

I have no good references to offer on this subject, but perhaps the following can serve as a jumping-off point for more research on the subject: William Popham's manor in Scarsdale used to extend from Post Road (the address of the extant manor house) to the Bronx River (where downtown Scarsdale and in particular the train station are now situated). The train station was erected there as a private stop for the Popham family (and was called "Popham's Gate"). It is said (by whom I'm uncertain) that the Popham family had an underground tunnel that led from their house to the station (or perhaps to some point closer to the station), which is supported by a 1970's excavation of a room in the basement of the house that is thought to be the entrance to the tunnel. The Popham family were members of the congregation of St. James the Less. Accordingly, they granted their neighbors an access road to the church (now called Church Lane) across their property. This road would have bisected the underground tunnel that would have led to the train station. It is therefore plausible that the church may have made use of this underground tunnel that conveniently connected from a house near their premises to the train station if they were in fact involved in the underground railroad. I feel that the story may be unfounded, though, based on someone repeating a story that they heard about an underground tunnel that went past the church on its way to the train station.

St. James the Less conducts annual history tours of its cemetary and crypt, though, and perhaps contacting them directly might help to clarify the situation; perhaps they know of documentation of the story? (Incidentally, St. James the Less is an Episcopalian congregation, so not necessarily relevant to Quakers' involvement in the Underground Railroad...) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.215.231.191 (talk) 07:12, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Jacob Greenberg; Jay Gandelman

 * Jacob Greenberg, contemporary of Nechamkin. Created the prelude to Einstein's theory of relativity.
 * "Jay Gandelman", Head of the Science Olympiad at Scarsdale Middle School

No references provided, and Wikipedia has no articles on them. Are these notable people? If so, could we have some references supporting their notability? Dpbsmith (talk) 21:43, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
 * This page and the page for the local Scarsdale high school have been vandalized repeatedly the last few days. I'm sure this is another bit of thatPhilatio (talk) 02:24, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Text that needs to be moved
If it is really relevant at all, it does not belong under the 'Events' heading:

What the New York Times termed a "homecoming bacchanal" made regional news in 2002 and sent five students to the hospital with acute alcohol poisoning. Reportedly scores of students arrived drunk at the dance, some so drunk that they vomited in the principal's wastebasket and passed out on his floor. Twenty-eight of them received suspensions. The New York Times said the incident evoked "soul-searching" in "this iconic suburb, which prides itself on giving children every advantage." Principal John Klemme told student government leaders that "the world is taking a perverse pleasure in Scarsdale's humiliation" and challenged them to "reclaim your school." —Preceding unsigned comment added by Philatio (talk • contribs) 19:53, 14 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Well, I'm not sure what would be a good subhead, but I've used "The 2002 Homecoming Bacchanal." It was a significant event; I don't think Scarsdale High School gets mentioned in The New York Times all that often. I'm not sure, but it seems to me that I heard about it on the radio in either national or New England-regional news (I live about 200 miles from New York). (In point of fact, I personally think it's great that they had enough sense not to drive and that nobody got seriously hurt). Dpbsmith (talk) 02:16, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Beyonce's house
Recently added:
 * Beyonce and Jay-Z, singer/actress and music mogul just built a house in Scarsdale. They recently were married (2008) and got their marriage license in Scarsdale.

Interesting if true, but the cited source just shows a picture of a house and says it's Beyonce's. The author is not named. Whoever posted the picture doesn't give any reason to believe it's Beyonces, and other posted comments express skepticism. I think we need a better source. Dpbsmith (talk) 19:50, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Once again, I'm moving this here.


 * Jay-z and Beyonce have bought a house in Scarsdale. If the reports pan out, the couple would be moving into an expansive colonial style house of about 15,000 square feet, on approximately 2 acres of land. The palatial home has been under construction for about 6 months.

It's not unlikely, given the marriage license, but it's the responsibility of the editor inserting the information to provide a source. So, please, provide a source and then (and only then) reinsert. Dpbsmith (talk) 23:09, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Merge discussion
The Scarsdale Public Library article has no third-party sources or apparent notability. The information can easily be merged into a sentence in this article's paragraph on the library, as:

Let me know what you all think. -- ɱ   (talk)   10:19, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Endorse. That is unless there is something notable about the building it is in that the article does not state. John from Idegon (talk) 15:12, 9 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Endorse. ButtonwoodTree (talk) 13:49, 5 June 2014 (UTC)

Boldly merged today. if that offends anyone, feel free to undo and relist this discussion. John from Idegon (talk) 00:24, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

Wealthiest Towns. ..
I see this topic has come up before, but I'm starting anew. I suppose it shouldn't be a problem to state the fact that Scarsdale regularly appears on one list or another as a "wealthy" town of some sort, but this topic is raised no less than three times in the current article, 1) in the opening, 2) in discussing the school district and 3) in the demographics section. In my opinion, a discussion of wealth is essentially crass and it would be far more constructive to cite something like "best place(s) to live", but as I mentioned above, if its factual and others believe it's an important thing to relay to Wikipedia's audience, so be it.  However, must it be mentioned three times?  Do we think the point couldn't be made clear with one mention?  Assuming the intent in making these edits was benign, then I understand the satisfaction and pride people take in the place they live and the success that these rankings connote, but at some point, it's just makes people seem like braggarts. I'd like to edit, but thought I should seek some opinions first. ButtonwoodTree (talk) 17:59, 3 June 2014 (UTC)
 * I agree entirely, mentioning it three times is excessive.-- ɱ   (talk)   14:49, 4 June 2014 (UTC)
 * It shouldn't be mentioned at all without reference, IMHO, and I think the one place to mention it would be in demographics, with a reference to a comparative listing of town's wealth. John from Idegon (talk) 20:18, 4 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Well we can remove the school and lead wealth information and that should be fine, no? The demographics section is fine and still cites a decent source.-- ɱ   (talk)   21:36, 4 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks all. Based upon the three comments, I will revise.  Appreciate the input.  ButtonwoodTree (talk) 13:39, 5 June 2014 (UTC)

Fire department content
I see absolutely no utility in having a listing (unreferenced at that) of the location of the fire houses and the apparatus stationed at each one. Wikipedia is not a directory, right? Wikipedia is not a collection of random information. I'd bet 95% of the people in the world don't even know the difference between a fire truck and a fire engine, so who does it serve to list this stuff? Another editor contended that this info is common on settlement articles and I strongly disagree with that. It is rare, and for a reason. It isn't information that serves to inform the target audience, which is the entire English speaking world. The one group of people settlement articles are NOT to be directed to are the locals, which, along with a very small percentage of the world's population that are fire buffs, are the only conceivable audience for that material. Bill in Boise or Ben in Bhopal are not even going to be able to relate to the addresses, so again, why include them? I would never look in Wikipedia to find the address for anything, save possibly a main contact adress for the subject of the article.

Adding a bunch of trivial information lowers the usefulness of the article to the readers. It is just a bunch of crap to wade through to find what they are really looking for.

Additionally, including this overly detailed information in some but not all articles only serves to confuse our readers. "How come I can find where Scarsdale keeps their ladder trucks and not Buffalo?" It would be an impossible task to provide this info on all settlement articles accurately, as equipment assignments change and different municipalities keep and release different levels of records. John from Idegon (talk) 18:48, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

Lead Paragraph
Personally, I find it an interesting fact that Scarsdale is both a village and a town, does that really need to be in the lead? Couldn't/shouldn't, we have a section on government, where we explain this unique feature, describe the mayor, village manager, etc. It seems to me that the lead should have some common facts about the village, like location, year founded, population, proximity to New York, and maybe reference to whatever the town is most famous or notable for. I don't think its form of government is its most notable feature. ButtonwoodTree (talk) 11:08, 22 June 2017 (UTC)
 * This is common and expected on municipal articles, yeah. Those other common facts are definitely to be expected, feel free to add to the article as you see fit! ɱ  (talk) · vbm  · coi) 13:16, 22 June 2017 (UTC)

Wealthiest towns, ZIP Codes, etc.
@Drmies, Magnolia677, and Anonymous453434567, I'm opening this talk page discussion because there is some disagreement over whether these recent edits by Anonymous453434567 should remain in the article. I am going to copy what I said on Drmies's talk page: Hopefully, we can clarify whether the disputed content should remain in this article. – Epicgenius (talk) 17:17, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
 * There may be some merit to including info about wealth, seeing as how locales in Westchester County tend to attract attention because they have so many rich residents. However, I'm not too sure if this extends to info like  Scarsdale school district is consistently ranked the 1st wealthiest school district in America . First, the source for that claim is dodgy; even if that source was 100% reliable, it says that Scarsdale's district is tied with two others for the richest in New York. The rest of the section has a couple of Business Insider sources, which are only marginally reliable, as well as a WP:CITEBOMB of Bloomberg sources. I would check that the claims being made in the section aren't being exaggerated, as is the case with the info about the school district.
 * Similarly, the ZIP Code may be notable, given that we regularly include ZIP Codes in infoboxes, and since infoboxes are supposed to summarize information that's cited in the text. However, I'm also not sure that we should be making claims like  The areas below, while not part of Scarsdale, are also covered by 10583, for a total population coverage of over twice the village itself . There was actually a long discussion about the ZIP Codes on the talk page, but that discussion was almost 20 years ago, so it's worth starting a new discussion about the ZIP Codes.

User:Anonymous453434567 continues to revert edits, adding back this large section about "wealth". I have reverted this edit with the edit summary "per consensus". That consensus was an RFC where a number of editors described the type of magazine rankings used to support this edit as "mostly crud" (User:Robert McClenon), a "highly unreliable load of B.S." (User:Sbmeirow), and "don't belong in an encyclopedia" (User:Fettlemap). These are the sources used in this edit:
 * Money's Best Places to Live
 * The 25 Richest Neighborhoods in America
 * The 25 Richest Neighborhoods in the New York City Suburbs
 * America's Richest (and Poorest) Towns
 * These Are the Wealthiest Towns in the U.S.
 * In America's Richest Town, $500k a Year is Now Below Average
 * These Are the 100 Richest Places in America
 * The 20 Richest Neighborhoods in America in 2022
 * The 20 most affluent places in the US
 * These Are the Wealthiest School Districts Across America, Study Finds

Two other sources include:
 * This is Where America's Wealthiest Live - an article with some encyclopedic value.
 * |url-status=live A random link to a mapping site. Magnolia677 (talk) 20:27, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
 * There have been numerous disputes as to whether to include statements that a municipality is wealthy or affluent or some similar description, and they have almost always been decided against retaining such descriptions, as being non-neutral and undue weight.  My opinion is that the paragraphs in question are no exception.  Robert McClenon (talk) 21:04, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
 * This junk should be removed for many reasons. For similar reasons, we don't add "lack of wealth" or "slums" paragraphs to the worst poor communities either. Stating the average income of a city in the demographics section is fine, as long as it isn't worded in a peacock/fluffy/bragging manor. •  Sbmeirow  •  Talk  • 21:21, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Also, at this RFC there was a rough consensus to also keep words such as "affluent" or "poor" out of the ledes of cities and towns articles. Magnolia677 (talk) 21:29, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Adding this puffery to the lede or creating a section on these rankings doesn't inform us about the community except that wealthy people have managed to gather together. Wealth, poverty, or some other indicator will be evident in a well written article without putting it in the lede. These ranking articles rarely go to any depth about the community except what some statistics show. While these pieces are easily produced and commonly used to draw eyeballs to a publication, they don't belong as citations in an encyclopedia; nor does the content based on them. Fettlemap (talk) 04:23, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

There appears to be a consensus that the section on "wealth" is not appropriate in its present form and sourcing. The second part of the edit reverted by User:Anonymous453434567 was a list of communities "not part of Scarsdale", but sharing the same ZIP code as Scarsdale. This information is irrelevant and out-of-scope. The input of others would be appreciated. Magnolia677 (talk) 10:40, 26 March 2023 (UTC)


 * There is no consensus that the section on wealth should be removed. Firstly, it has been present in the Scarsdale Wiki page for many years. Secondly, the town's association with wealth is a defining characteristic of the municipality, as evidenced by many sources. Thirdly, this representation is consistent with what is present on the pages of other wealthy towns such as @Atherton, @Bronxville, etc. Anonymous453434567 (talk) 13:13, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Consensus is fairly clear. Note that consensus does not mean unanimity. If you want to keep this content you're going to need the support of other editors. What is happening on some other article is immaterial - it may well be that those articles need to be changed rather than this one. MrOllie (talk) 13:16, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

The fact that Scasrsdale is a wealthy town is notable. In most other towns at or near the top of this list, there is typically reference to this fact, citing similar lists. For example, see Atherton, California. Also, there is no other place on Wikipedia where this information is aggregated, so it is valuable to have it as such here.

Re: the Zip Codes: a very large area and corresponding number of homes that show up on GPS as address "Scarsdale" are NOT actually in Scarsdale in any way, shape or form. Besides sharing the USPS office, there is no connection. This is notable and is similar to how it is discusssed in nearby towns with similar situations; for example, Bronxville, New York. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Anonymous453434567 (talk • contribs) 01:37, 27 March 2023 (UTC)
 * That different cities share the same ZIP code is trivial; it happens all the time in thousands of US cities. I even told you this on your talk page. ZIP codes have no relation to city boundaries, per this source. Magnolia677 (talk) 11:20, 27 March 2023 (UTC)
 * That's a fair point. However, this phenomenon is less common in the Northeast of the United States and is therefore a source of considerable confusion. In Westchester in particular, in towns where the Zip Code contains areas/population that greatly exceed that of the actual municipality, it is noted on their wikipedia pages. See @bronxville as an example. Also, if you scroll up you can see that this topic was discussed many years ago and decided that it was an important piece of information for the page. Anonymous453434567 (talk) 13:15, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
 * It's common throughout most of the Northeast. Just look at a zipcode map of CT, ME, RI, NH, etc. MrOllie (talk) 13:21, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Accusing other editors of vandalism is not going to help keep your preferred version of the article over the consensus of other editors on this talk page. MrOllie (talk) 01:46, 17 April 2023 (UTC)
 * That's not true at all in CT as an example. Also, see previous Talk sections titled "Scarsdale Zip Code" twice. This has been debated in the past and settled. Anonymous453434567 (talk) 01:57, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Those sections are more than 15 years old, and do not bind our hands today. MrOllie (talk) 02:51, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Noting here that Anonymous453434567 is now indef blocked for sockpuppetry and probably won't be continuing this discussion. MrOllie (talk) 03:05, 21 April 2023 (UTC)