Talk:Schindler's List/Archive 1

Dubious
How reliable is the suggestion that Shindler didn't write the list? It sounds kinds of dubious jubeanation


 * Apparently Schindler's wife said she never heard of him writing a list, but that Goldberg wrote a list/lists, and Schindler merely suggested a few names. I'm trying to find the biography that mentions this. -68.114.154.249 04:05, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

why is there not a lengthy mention of the shoah foundation, the foundation OF the foundation, steven spielbergs part in it (he created it, basically), and a shoah foundation article itself? Yeah. I just saw Schindler's List. Lockeownzj00 04:53, 29 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I have read in a few places (although I don't know nearly enough to write about it) that Schindler armed the Jews in his protection, and this was completely ignored in the movie (many assume it was due to Hollywood's pro-gun control leanings, but that's a POV statement and doesn't fit here). I do not know if the book ignored it as well, but some information on this omission would be worthwhile in the article. Lord Bodak 22:29, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)

There is at one point, a scene in which Schindler explains that not a single shell made at his factory should fire. It then cuts to a scene of a Nazi officer trying to execute someone with his pistol, which does not fire, presumably because of Schindler's ammunition. Is there historical evidence of Schindler sabotaging the armaments, or was that invented so there is less moraly ambiguity in the film?

You are mistaken. Those are two scenes which do not follow one another. The pistol does not fire earlier on in the movie. Later he states, when he sets up the munitions factory, that not a single shell would fire. Completely unrelated.

It sounds like you guys should read the book.I have inserted information about the movie,delineating 3 differences in the movie and book.1 being that the novie made no mention of guns,wheras the book used 1 page to tell of the collection of guns.And yes,the omission was anti-gun bias.2.The silly way in the movie ,at the end,where Oskar called on the humanity of the SS guards.In the book, he got rid of the SS commander,and then when it came time,he simply dismissed the guards.3.The way Goeth used to sic his 2 dogs on prisoners.

Also,someone who can,should fix Goths name.The proper German spelling has an UMLAUT,2 DOTS, above the O,and the English transliteration for the O is OE.dARN THIS KEYBOARD,THE UMLAUT IS MISSING.Saltforkgunman 04:17, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Historically Inaccurate?
Why is this listed as a "historically inaccurate" film? See above.Saltforkgunman 04:18, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

See this book review: http://www.forward.com/articles/2863

In particular:

"It turns out that Keneally and Spielberg, despite numerous factual errors (in what it must be remembered were works of historical fiction), pretty much got Schindler right."

If someone can get a copy of that biography, maybe we can add a "Historical Inaccuracies" section to the article. I'm still not sure of whether Schindler being arrested for kissing a Jewish girl is a fact or just something in the movie. -68.114.154.249 22:53, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

In the movie of schindlers list, at the end when they all of schindlers jews are paying respect to him at his memorial grave, the last person puts roses on his grave. There is some speculation that it is the actor who played schindler(Liam Neeson). Not for sure but would like to know the answer.

The movie to me personally I saw no cause. There was, however, an effect. Then about the gun not firing. You are so right that he did say that not a single shell should fire AFTER the fun not firing scene. I thought that scene had to do with the fact that the man Goethe was going to shoot was a Rabi. I just put that in place of the fact that maybe Goethe didn't know how to use a hand gun. HAHA. Not to mention, they rarely showed anything about what happened outside of Plazsow. I would like to know what became of the Ghetto at Krakow.- Babsi

Gold Ring
If I correctly recall, I believe that the ring that was made for Oskar was shown in color and should be added to the page.

It wasn't. The Girl in Red and a couple of candles are the only color items in the bulk portion of the movie. Tower7 05:34, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Epitome of Hollywood Fantasy History
Why no mention of critiques such as that describe this film as a fantasy of history as-we-would-wish-it-to-be, an example of misremembering the reality of the banality of evil.

Is there a category for such wishful thinking historical fantasy films? If not, there should be.

Ridiclous criticism.

Schoolhouse
I changed the text that talked about the female engineer criticizing the building in the camp. Before it said the building was a "schoolhouse", which would have been impossible, as the children in work camps were treated as slaves...no schools were built. It was just another concrete-floor, slat-wall box in which they forced too many people to sleep for a few hours.

The girl with the red coat
When I saw the movie, the background music was of a yiddish song at the pint where the girl in red appeared. My grandmother sings that song sometimes, and if I'm not mistaken, it's about a girl with a new red coat. Anyone know anything about it?

Czechoslovak?
From the opening paragraph:

"The movie, adapted by Steven Zaillian and directed by Steven Spielberg, relates the tale of Oskar Schindler, a Czechoslovak Catholic businessman who was instrumental in saving the lives of over one thousand Polish Jews during the Holocaust."

I thought Schindler was born in Austria-Hungary in the Sudetenland in what is now the Czech Republic. Schindler was not a Czechoslovak Catholic. His sirname Schindler really doesn't imply he's Czech. In fact the 'real' Schindler article states he was a Sudeten-German. The majority of us would know that the Sudetenland was incorporated into Germany in 1938. For nineteen years of his life Schindler was living in Czechoslovakia, but not as an ethnic Czech. Calling him Czechoslovak is missleading. Kyle sb 10:27, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

mostly a work of fiction
this article doesnt talk about the fiction put into the story. look at this link about the ss officer Goeth. aparenetly, he was never charged with shooting people at random from the balcony of his home. http://www.air-photo.com/english/ when you see stuff like this, it damages not only the credibility of the movie, but of the entire story. Keltik31 21:55, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Two witnesses describe the event you just mentioned in detail and those testimonies can be seen on the Shoah foundations archives. He did shoot people at random according to those that were there to see it. Additionally, the horific depiction of Goethe is actually toned down from many of the witness testimonies. There were a multitude of other acts of murder and cruelty not captured in the film. Omiting them doesn't make the movie less historical as we can clearly capture the essence of what happened and how it effected those involved. It is history and it did happen. This event is documented in the book.

you failed to mention that there are reports that he was never charged with shooting people in the camp from his balcony. and how did he do this when the camp wasnt visible from his balcony? you see, this claim, like so many others about what went on in the camps, just doesnt add up. and if the holocaust is so true, then why are people put in jail when it is denied. are people to tell me that a child molester and a holocaust denier are to be put in the same place? the first casualty in war is the truth. i have read about stories where men were forced to rape their fathers in north korea. this is a physical impossibility if you know anything about the workings of the male anatomy. this movie was a zionist propaganda movie. why do we never hear about the german point of veiw when it comes to world war two? Keltik31 22:00, 4 January 2007 (UTC)


 * "Of the entire story"? From that perspective, the egregious factual errors and wholesale fabrications in films like Gallipoli, O Brother Where Art Thou?, The Longest Day, Pork Chop Hill, The Green Berets, Apollo 13, Three Kings, and World Trade Center cause me to wonder whether the First World War, Great Depression, Second World War, Korean War, Vietnam War, American space program, Gulf War, and 9/11 ever actually happened. Eron 03:31, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

well, i wouldnt go quite that far. but this is passed off as history. Keltik31 00:16, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Not that I think this train of thought has any bearing to the actual article, but the reason a lot of German folk don't talk about the war is threefold:
 * 1. They are ashamed by their either active participation or silent acquiescence to the war effort;
 * 2. They would like to forget about that shame, and focus on the positive actions of Germany since the war, and;
 * 3. There have been 2-3 generations since the war ended that have very little connection to the war. German historical texts, not unlike Japanese history texts, tend to define in very general terms what happened furing the war.
 * Having said that, let's keep on track here. If there is some serious criticism about the accuracy of the movie that does not border on Holocaust denial, lets incude it and talk about it. Otherwise, there is a nifty little article about the Holocaust wherein these sorts of arguments belong. Were I a dick, I would suggest that folk get off their soapboxes and get to editing, but I am not a dick. Life is too short to be arguing about non-pertinent topics.Arcayne 00:33, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

List
Well, I just pointed out that "list" is german for a prank or cunning, so the film title is a bit of a double meaning- "Schindler's list-of-people", but also "Schindler's pranking-of-germans" (In better language than that), but it was reverted. I'm not making up the German there, it does mean that. I was surprised this wasn't mentioned, I've heard it mentioned any time I've seen the movie, at least once from my German teacher. Any particular protest? Cantras 08:13, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I should've had a better explanation in my edit summary. See your talk page for my reasoning on the revert. --Erik ( talk/contrib ) @ 19:06, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Image is wrong
I'm getting some incorrect image in the picture for the movie template. Image:Schindler's List movie.jpg seems to be the wrong image. Does anyone know what is going on and where the correct one is? JoshuaZ 06:59, 4 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Done. You might want to consider blocking User:WeinsteinWarWolf. He's an image vandal, and he's on a spree. yandman  08:23, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

There seems to be some kind of problem with the image box. It apparently states some very dirty language.

Amon Göth
I have issues with this line;

“The movie contains at least one fabrication. The scene that shows Amon Göth shooting camp inmates from his balcony is a Hollywood addition to the story. Göth was never charged with this crime. In addition, photographs show that his balcony was at the bottom of a hill and he could not fire a rifle over or around the hill into the inmates' camp.”

This is not a fabrication as the shooting is depicted in the book so not a Hollywood addition. My attempt to edit the page has been highlighted as vandalism which it wasn’t. It's a shame to see revisionism going on at Wikipedia. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 158.234.250.71 (talk • contribs).


 * oh, heavan forbid the truth was told here on wikipedia. wether it is in the book or the movie, it is false. look at the photos for yourself. how do you fire a rifle at a camp that is behing a hill? Keltik31 22:04, 4 January 2007 (UTC)


 * You have failed to read the passage correctly as it clearly states that the shootings occured from a temporary villa. Discussions on this issue can be found here http://www.nizkor.org/features/techniques-of-denial/schindler-01.html.


 * "The first morning Commandant Goeth stepped out his front door and murdered a prisoner at random, there was a tendency to see this also, like the first execution on Chujowa Go'rka, as a unique event, discrete from what would become the customary life of the camp. In fact, of course, the killings on the hill would soon prove to be habitual, and so would Amon's morning routine.


 * Wearing a shirt and riding breeches and boots on which his orderly had put a high shine, he would emerge on the steps of his temporary villa. (They were renovating a better place for him down at the other end of the camp perimeter.) As the season wore on he would appear without his shirt, for he loved the sun. But for the moment he stood in the clothes in which he had eaten breakfast, a pair of binoculars in one hand and a sniper's rifle in the other.
 * He would scan the camp area, the work at the quarry, the prisoners pushing or hauling the quarry trucks on the rails which passed by his door. Those glancing up could see the smoke from the cigarette which he held clamped between his lips, the way a man smokes without hands when he is too busy to put down the tools of his trade. Within the first few days of the camp's life he appeared thus at his front door and shot a prisoner who did not seem to be pushing hard enough at a cart loaded with limestone"


 * Keneally, T., Op. Cit. pp. 192-193

Thanks to the person that removed the offending line.

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 158.234.250.71 (talk) 09:08, 4 January 2007 (UTC).

He was never charged with it. Is wikipedia allowed to say that O.J Simpson killed that bitch? NO!!! Remove it.

If OJ had commited the crime in front of scores of witnessess I belive wikepedia would be allowed to say it.

One man vs. whole country?
Going unsaid is the fact that a single man did more to preserve life than an entire country. Of course, Poland should not bear blame for being ravaged by Nazi aggression, but the comparison at least underscores the rarity of a figure like Schindler. As a matter of fact, please refer to the list of nations with most names included on the list found in the Yad Vashem Institute as Righteous Among the Nations to find that in spite of many dreadful acts and omnipresent lack of sensitivity towards their Jewish neighbors, Poland will remain on the top the list. Mind you, those people could pay with their lives (and many did) not only their money.--Mattjashka 18:03, 17 January 2007 (UTC)


 * WT*! So every single person on the planet should sacrifice their lives to save one jew????? Some noble German people DID do things but that's irrelevant, what you are suggesting, German people, most of whom were UNAWARE OF THE HOLOCAUST, should have done all they could to shelter jews, despite the fact that it would have resulted in their quick and painful deaths but NO! Unless every single German citizen gave their lives to spare the poor and miserable jews they will forever be labelled as assholes. YOU ARE A MORON :@ WHY DONT YOU JUMP ON A PLANE AND THROW YOURSELF INFRONT OF SOME IRAQI ***HOLES BULLET HEADED TOWARDS A UN SOLDIER HUH??? **** YOU! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 58.107.182.227 (talk) 09:24, 28 March 2007 (UTC).


 * Quite hilarious, if I do say so myself. Anyways, the answer to your first question is indeed "yes." 24.13.34.230 20:13, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Which country ?
Response section says "Schindler's List was viewed by high-school classes throughout the country to impress the horrors of the Holocaust ..."

Which country ? Jay 20:19, 19 March 2007 (UTC)


 * This one! Duh! :D 24.13.34.230 20:14, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Last I looked this is an English encyclopedia, not an American one. Alientraveller 20:20, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Elderly you said?
An elderly German businessman showed himself on set speaking about how nice German soldiers cant be blamed for what happened in Poland 50 years earlier. If he was elderly, he would be too old to have been in the Hitlerjug. A strongworded man, and his partycredentials within the NSDAP would have been ecxelent...sort of. Any chance he came from the same place as the railway carts?