Talk:Scholar-official

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 1 September 2020 and 22 December 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Alicialuo. Peer reviewers: Rui Shen 11, Yile5, Kukukukiki0.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 08:44, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Scholar officials vs. Scholar gentry
We need some consistency in terminology here. We have 2 related articles: scholar-official and landed gentry in China. I think the former should refer exclusively the those literati holding government posts and might in fact be merged with mandarin (bureaucrat).

The term 'scholar-gentry' should be used to refer only to the families of these scholar-officials who owned land and held social leadership roles, i.e. landed gentry in China.

Thoughts? EenJavaanseChinese (talk) 11:11, 21 November 2018 (UTC)

Monkish vows?
I heard that the Chinese bureaucrats (maybe only at certain levels?) took vows analagous to those of a Catholic monk, and were not allowed to marry. Is that true? If they married, were their sons expected to take the examinations? Boris B (talk) 00:40, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Where did you hear that? From the voices in your head? Of course they got married and had kids, that's how you perpetuate the family cult and ensure one has children to look after you in old age. What a hilarious question to ask.-- Pericles of Athens  Talk 02:31, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

Okinawa
The term "scholar-bureaucrats" applies in Okinawa, possibly Vietnam, perhaps other places as well which emulated the Chinese model. I have added a few sentences on this matter, but am unsure where or how to fit them in, and while I could write a bit more on the Okinawan case, I hesitate to disturb the balance of an article which ought to be primary about China, and which is quite short and thus easily unbalanced by even small additions. LordAmeth (talk) 16:19, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

The Civil Service Examination system from ancient China also has a significant influence in other ancient East Asian countries such as ancient Korea(include Goguryeo, Silla, and Baekje), Ryukyu Kingdom(today's Okinawa), and Vietnam. So Scholar-officials also became an important ruling class, political and academic power in those countries. Alicialuo (talk) 04:36, 20 November 2020 (UTC)Alicialuo

Correct Term?
There needs to be a clear English translation for 士大夫. (which I pulled off of the chinese wikipedia, and I not even sure that is the correct term) This was the social class that staffed the civil service of the Chinese Empire(s). So far in literature I have seen: Scholar-bureaucrats, scholar-officials, scholar, bureaucrats, officials, literati, gentlemen, intellectuals, gentry, scholar-gentry, civil-servant, ect.

yet, according to existing Wikipedia the correct translation is: Scholar--Gurdjieff (talk) 12:20, 10 January 2010 (UTC)


 * The common term in academic and historians' English is scholar-officials, which is seen everywhere in the literature. I have never seen "scholar-bureaucrats" as a translation of 士大夫 until I saw it here. I am changing the name of the article as it could cause confusion. Evangeline (talk) 00:50, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

I reedited the explanation and definition of Scholar-officials at the beginning, because the Scholar-officials could both represent the people/intellectuals who passed the Civil Service Examination/Imperial Examination and served as government officials, also the special social class formed by these groups of people.Alicialuo (talk) 03:37, 20 November 2020 (UTC)Alicialuo

literati
there is no literati article, so i have added the material here. icetea8 (talk) 09:25, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

Influences in Arts and Culture
Added more information of educational and cultural background of Scholar-officials in the lead section.Alicialuo (talk) 03:46, 20 November 2020 (UTC)Alicialuo Added an article about Scholar-Officials' function in culture inheritance and continuity in China.Alicialuo (talk) 05:28, 20 November 2020 (UTC)AlicialuoAlicialuo (talk) 05:28, 20 November 2020 (UTC)

Origins and Formations
Historical origins of scholar-officials: Since Western Zhou dynasty, Da Fu was a higher class than Shi, Da Fu belongs to aristocracy, Shi belongs to the social class between Da Fu and ordinary people.Alicialuo (talk) 04:07, 20 November 2020 (UTC)Alicialuo