Talk:Scimitar/Archive 1

Redirect article
I am going to try to get this article back on track, starting with detailing how this does not refer to a specific type of sword. I will add citations as I go along. Dlatrex (talk) 20:52, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

Arabs scimtar
Arabs use this sword long before Turkish invasion because as you probably know Sword of Uthman, Ali and Muhammad were scimtar (in particulary Zulfiqar how is probably one of the most known scimtar) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A01:E34:EF25:CEF0:3C3B:77A:75CA:4370 (talk) 21:24, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

there is just no piece of evidence that supports the names you listed wielded a curved sword. in fact, some depictions like this show that they were not curved.

THIS ARTICLE IS HEAVILY VANDALIZED BY ARAB NATIONALISTS. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.103.145.212 (talk) 00:58, 11 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Why is the anti-arab comment is not by a known user and what support this claim? This is racism.--Ashashyou (talk) 05:31, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

This article is pointless
If info is needed about Western Asian sabers, there are rich articles in Wikipedia about saif, shamshir, pulwar, tulwar, kilij, dao, shashka,shashu, mameluke saber and many other related saber types. The term scimitar itself isa misconception by the orientalistic western imagination. It is the arms and armour equivelant of the orientalistic terms such as "Saracen", "Seraglio" or "Orient". It could be about how westerners misperceived the different yet related types sabers in muslim nations and their historical evolution and imagined this orientalistic "scimitar". You can write an article about that phenomenon. But this article isn't even about that. It is a provierbial soup of confusion of terminology, culture and historical evolution of several types of swords, souced with lots of myths, prejudice and misperceptions that would even shame the most ignorant 12th century crusader. It is literally a mess. There is more than enough info in Wikipedia on every saber type ever used by Western Asian Muslims. Please erase this Frankenstein of an article. --85.97.47.56 (talk) 02:45, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

Video Game and Roleplaying Fanboyism
Look, I'm a video game nerd myself, but this is an encyclopedia, not a gaming web site. This article contains two and a half lines of factual information followed by a page of fanboy trivia garbage. Why is it that nerds feel obligated to fill every article related to weapons or anything Japanese with a list of video games or anime in which they appear? You'll notice that the "Apple" article does not contain a list of every book and movie in which a character ever consumed an apple, nor does the "Pants" article have a list of famous pant-wearers; this is because it's not encyclopedic information. A scimitar is a type of sword; of course half of the fantasy games out there have them. Someone needs to start a "Purge Wikipedia of Fanboyism" project.
 * You're quite right, though there's no need for name-calling. I will attempt a revision. - Mcasey666 20:06, 14 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Don't forget the use of wood in popular culture. Wellspring (talk) 17:16, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Drizzt Do'Urden
Is it really relevant to have that banal comment about a Forgotten Realms character at the end? If it's in there at all, should it not be subordinated in a "Misc." or "Fiction" section? Really, it tarnishes the article.


 * I moved it into a separate section, but it belongs in the article; Drizzt Do'Urden's use of scimitars is among the most famous modern fictional uses of scimitars, and he is notable in that he does not come from a Middle Eastern culture.  &mdash;Lowellian (talk)   03:14, Oct 28, 2004 (UTC)

Scimitars are also common in Dungeons & Dragons, and all of the video games based on it, often being used by druids.-LtNOWIS 22:30, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)


 * Although Drizzt does not come from a Middle Eastern culture, his role within the Forgotten Realms has an analogue in the 'Good Saracen' of Medieval and Modern literature. It might be noted that he bears also a passing similarity to the fictional dual Scimitar wielding Saracen character 'Nasir', from the 1980s Television Series 'Robin of Sherwood.' Indeed, it could be argued that broad similarities are being unintentionally invoked in D&D Drow to popular conceptions of the 'Pagan Other'. Dark Skinned, powerful, worshippers of evil God(s), controlled by women and so on. Not accurate conceptions, mind you, just popular ones. Scimitars are a natural choice for this character when viewed from such a persepective...

Swords or?
check the article on swords...technically a sword, by definition, has 2 cutting blades.

scimitars aren't really swords.
 * Reread that article. At least as it currently stands, swords "usually" have two edges. I don't think I've ever seen anyone argue that sabres, scimitars, katanas, falcatas and so on are not swords. --Iustinus 01:58, 18 September 2005 (UTC)


 * Yes, this is sabre, you're right. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A01:E34:EF25:CEF0:3C3B:77A:75CA:4370 (talk) 21:29, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

How much do these things weigh?
The article says it is "relatively light." However, I do not consider these swords light. A dagger or foil is light. If one hacks like a machete, it's more like bludgeoning, which means heavy, upper arm use. I've never used either, but it seems "light" would imply forearm and wrist parley. -- Kristinwt (talk) 03:44, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Scimitar sub-types?
I wonder: is there is any distinguishing done between types of scimitars? It seems to me that scimitars bearing similar lines to the shamshir are rather different from the heavier swords dubbed scimitars in the movies (here I'm thinking especially of Azeem's sword from "Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves"). Obviously, that weapon was custom-made for the film, but it still is a lot closer to the depictions of scimitars that I remember from history books and the like (e.g., long, heavy blade, widening toward the tip, with a recurved "hook" between the tips of the front and rear cutting surfaces). Sacxpert 00:11, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
 * In pop-culture scimitars are incorrectly depicted as being broad-bladed, single-edged swords with a scalloped curve on the inner edge near the tip, exactly as you mentioned. Real scimitars look nothing like them.  It's  a Hollywood invention, just like the "fact" that the Japanese katana can supposedly cut through anything. 207.216.208.68 (talk) 04:09, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
 * To be clear, are you saying that scimitars shaped like this one: http://www.birthpangs.org/images/scimitar2.jpg are pure fiction? They never existed like this? If this is the case, it really should be mentioned in the article, in fact there should be a whole section dedicated to it as this is the popular image of what a scimitar looks like. It should have an image like this one and a paragraph explaining that this shape is not historically accurate. 118.209.39.123 (talk) 03:04, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Those existed long before hollywood, that is how scimitars are depicted in heraldry Tinynanorobots (talk) 06:00, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

Scimitar and Shamshir
First, I believe I must disclaim myself. I am primarily focused in western european weaponry, armoury, and martial arts and know little of anything much east of Italy or Germany. I have been taught, however, and read in countless published texts, that these swords are in fact the same, but under two different names. What is the physical or geographical differentiation between the two? It seems that both have exactly the same physical characteristics and existed at the exact same time in the exact same place. The wikipedia articles provide no clear differentiation, and no text I have found (aside from the Oxford Dictionary, which is not very reputable source for sword-related information) supports the concept that the two are less than the same weapon (from my understanding most scholarly texts find the later appearance of the word "scimitar" in the 1500s a bastardization of shamshir, a product of trade and revised interest in the middle east). If the shamshir is now "more inclusive" then of course it "includes" the scimitar by its rightful name (note that the word scimitar does not seem to appear until 1548, yet the weapon appears much earlier - what would it have been called? Most scholars seem to think "shamshir"). I think that the "scimitar" related information should be merged into the shamshir article, leaving scimitar as a redirect page. However, I can certainly be wrong, and my interpretation and recollection of printed material can be wrong - but it certainly seems that much (if not all) of the academia associates these two words to mean the same weapon, most properly (and originally) termed a shamshir. --Xiliquiern 03:50, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Use in Film
What I would have thought is the most famous use of a scimitar in film is the scene in Indiana Jones: Raiders of the Lost Ark. It's the first that came to my mind anyway...

Shape
Isn't there any better information for why they're shaped the way they are besides that it's "good for slashing opponents while riding on a horse"? Why does the curved shape help slashing opponents while riding a horse? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.104.190.237 (talk) 02:28, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I think it might have something to do with being easier to draw. At least I've heard that about the katana.  Ekwos (talk) 02:16, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Wasnt the Scimitar a Division symbol of the croatian Muslim Divisions World War 2?
Have a Division pin from the Handscar divisons of the Croataian Handscar Division with what I beleive is a Scimitar on it?SLASHINGHAND (talk) 03:37, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

What is this article about?
Is this article about the arab word saif, curved swords in general, Islamic curved swords, or what? The morphology just mentions curved swords used in Islamic cultures, and the "symbolism" section is about symbolism of the sword in Islamic culture. Tinynanorobots (talk) 06:15, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

El Cid
The article says that Khalin ibn Al-Whalid and Genghis Khan are the only generals never to have lost a battle. This is not true. Rodrigo Diaz, AKA El Cid, never lost a battle either. MFLK (talk) 17:36, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

Yusuf ibn Tashfin defeated him.115.134.181.26 (talk) 22:49, 14 May 2014 (UTC)

Uniqueness
The IP edit regarding uniqueness was me - I forgot to log in.

If the three are unique because they're individuals, then 'unique' is superfluous. But if they're unique because they never lost a battle, then there's three of them - so they can't be unique.

Incidentally: I never lost a battle (I never fought one). Someone added a 'citation needed' tag; but what kind of citation could support a negative assertion of the form "these three are X, and there are no others"? So, I favour deleting the entire claim. MrDemeanour (talk) 17:51, 13 July 2015 (UTC)